Wegner forehand article

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by JCo872, May 26, 2006.

  1. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, being bad to stay bad? Maybe you are just bad at tennis? Ever think of that? LOL

    Every coach brings in their own style, preferences, successes, and failures. If a student is not connecting with a coach, by all means, check out Oscar's approach. That is not the issue I have with Oscar. I am attacking his claims. He has yet to answer.

    Here is a post at Oscar's forum. This was posted by TLM who frequents here on occasion. What TLM says in this is completely twisted. No one has said Oscars' methods are ALL wrong. We have said that a professional player DOES indeed prepare the backswing well before th bounce and can prove that on film. I have also gone on record and indicated that I have NO PROBLEMS with his method except for his claims and the fact that he denies evidence placed right in front of him.

    Here is TLM's post. This is typical of Oscar followers not really getting it:

    "Oscar i purchaced your book+videos 3 years ago+me+my wife learned a lot+really improved our games with your instruction.

    I get on TW discussion board often+when i would brag up your methods + defend your instruction,there would be a lot of opposition.They would say that you were teaching all wrong+i was a fool for listening to you."


    Now, look at this. The comment "are we being foolish for listening to you". This reminds of a cult follower doubting the divinity of his Guru and god. If you really believe in a method, a smart person would realize that it is a MAN-MADE method complete with flaws and tips that may or may not work with everyone. All coaches have this inherent trait. It is why a good coach will use SEVERAL methods to help a student learn the game of tennis.

    But for a Wegner follower to get on their knees in prayer, to seek wisdom from their Guru, is a bit odd don't you think?

    The other thing is the personal touch of "I DEFEND YOUR INSTRUCTION" and "YOU WERE TEACHING ALL WRONG". Can you believe this? Who has said that Oscar is teaching ALL WRONG?

    Let me help you guys out a bit. A long time ago a bet was made between Arthur Ashe and Vic Braden. Vic was studying the pronation of the arm in different types of serve (twist, slice, etc.). Arthur insisted that the arm supinated on the slice serve and that he did it ALL the time. He refused to accept Vic's film analysis and made the bet. Guess what, Arthur lost.

    The difference between Arhtur and Oscar is, Arthur saw the evidence, apoligized to Vic, and changed the way he was teaching the serve.

    DO YOU REALLY THINK OSCAR HAS DONE THAT? EVEN WITH PROOF THAT PROS PREPARE BEFORE THE BOUNCE?????? Or is he now changing his tune with no apoligy?
     
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  2. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL, there coming out of the woodwork! All the Oscar 2.5 folks are jumping. How has Oscar simplified tennis?

    - When did he invent the open stance?

    - Why dont pros prepare before the bounce?

    - Who started teaching the laid back wrist?

    - Who started teaching the wrist release?

    - What player came on the scene to populaize the wrist release? did Oscar have anything to do with that player?

    - What coach emphasized lengthening the swing

    - What coach invented or at least imlfuenced the reverse forehand?

    - Was Pete Sampras influenced by Oscar?

    - Was Agassi influenced by Oscar

    - Is Leyton Hewitt influenced by Oscar

    - Was Guga's technique influenced by Oscar and when?

    - What specific players technique, playing ability, and talent was coached and unmistakenably influenced by Oscar?

    - When was the twohanded backhand used in tennis? Where was Oscar?

    - What about Rodger "classic style" Federer? When did Oscar take him under his wings and educate him to the world of tennis???

    - Who popularized the twohanded backhand, was Oscar behind the scenes building this genious?

    Oscar really hasn't done anything except create his own method in teaching tennis. I have already said I dont have a problem with that at all. But to make the other claims? LOL, you got to laugh.

    I even posted on Oscars website, and guess what? He hasn't answered. Except of course to foggy the whole issue up with his Scientology crap.
     
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  3. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Here you go, let's debate this!

    Get your guns ready...this was written by our Dear Father of Modern Tennis. This is him personally saying this and since I just discovered this, I can't wait to respond.

    ==========================================================

    Oscar04-27-2006, 10:51 AM
    Dear Mike, here is one of the tips (a very controversial one) that I wrote in regard to a very basic common error. I'll be happy to expand to other areas as well.

    Preparing early: just a myth commentators help perpetuate !

    Most conventional tennis teachers, including coaches at a very high level, not realizing its negative effect, counsel their students to take the racquet back early.

    But look both at Roger Federer and Andre Agassi, the two best strokers in the game. Roger and Andre keep following the ball with the racquet (or hand) for quite a long time, without taking it back early. Even while running, they keep the racquet in front their body. Even James Blake is finally doing the same thing, tracking the ball longer and waiting for the last moment to strike. Hopefully he is aware of this and will have continued success.

    If you really look, you'll see there is much more time than you think between the bounce and the hit. (Addition: Mary Carrillo's comment that Federer seemed to always have a lot of time was very apropriate. My answer would be: he takes his time.)

    ==========================================================

    If there is so much time, then why are a lot of players late? Why would we even have an issue whether they prepare earlier or simply wait a little bit more? If it is that simple, everyone would be able to hit on time, right? Wrong!

    The first thing that needs to be clarified is what constitutes the takeback, racquet preparation, etc.. with coaches that do not subscribe to Oscar's methods and those that do.

    What you are going to find is Oscar (in his clever way) took a drill that emphasizes and exxaggerates the shoulder rotation and the racquet back and demonized it making innocent followers believe that ALL other coaches make their students play the game with their racquet all the way back. THIS IS THE UNITED STATES method of teaching. Funny thing is, I don't do this. Yandell doesn't do this. Braden did it but only to emphasize a shoulder preparation problem but he never (during my time with him) said for players to run with their racquets back. So what is Oscar getting at? Is he portraying the truth about things or just tainting it with his own flavor to get people to believe him? Why is he so har to pin down with this issue when he is challenged with film and other coaches that are seeing something else?
     
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  4. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Ahhhh, sand face has been drawn in...perfect...:)

    But I want to understand Oscar's success. I want to know what he really is the Father of. Show me quotes that are not written by him! Tell me those. Name the players that had a direct influence from Oscar. When was he in the stands during a match coaching those players.

    No one is arguing whether his method is good for some players. All methods can benefit players and all methods have things we can learn from.

    EASI for example, is a method that you bad mouthed, yet, I find a lot of the information in the website verifiable.

    You are a lot like Oscar, when presented with clear information that contradicts your position, you dance around it! lol

    No doubt Oscar is a great player and a good coach! But his claims are not warranted. He throws all coaches that do not suscribe to his teachings in the same boat, yet there are a lot of excellent coaches that dont teach his methods.

    Can you answer that?

    I just took three kids out to the court. I dont teach Oscars methods and have developed my own method based on other coaches findings.

    Within one hour, they knew the SW grip, new the semi-open stance, and were hitting the ball lifting it with topspin. So I dont know what I am talking about? Teaching on the court is frickin' EASY!

    One of these days, you will stop the stupidity and answer questions. But as it is, I dont think you know how to. I really think you know what to do, but dont really know how to think through your answers. Can you write and give us just your answers to these questions to debate?

    Is it true that ALL coaches in the United States teach a player to run with their racquet back? Is it true that professional players do not prepare their swing BEFORE the bounce.

    What is happening here is the definitions are there regarding what is racquet preparation and 99% of the coaches agree on this. It is the EXACT same thing we agree with Oscar on. But Oscar wants to contiunue to paint it a different picture. What is your picture? Dont quote, use your own words.
     
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  5. tsungtak

    tsungtak Guest

    I do not have enough time in the day to sit and read your long winded posts about how we are all stupid consumers for buying into a method that you feel is not adequate. Let us evaluate YOUR life for a second, since you take such great pride in calling the other posters names like "sand-face," or "dumbo", and calling me and I am sure several other unworthy posters a "liar." Well, why don't you tell the whole thread why you are not at your USPTA job. Was it because they stressed the Oscar method, so you dropped everything and quit? Or was it because they required their pros to be nice? You put former USPTA member on the bottom of everything to make you sound so....professional. "Teaching on the court is frickin' EASY!" If that is right, why aren't you doing it anymore? For all we know you are making it up. You are just another internet geek that wishes he could post on SomethingAwful.com but you won't because your limited income from your mom does not allow the funds to post on their boards. You claim to be a guru at tennis. At least Oscar has worshipers. You have no one. No one wants to know your opinions, and you have to resort to posting your words on a TENNIS DISCUSSION BOARD.
    I came on this board to find others TEACHING (NOT INSULTING) the Oscar method because it helped my daughter. Why can't you just let go the fact that people have different opinions from yours? I didn't join to be humiliated and bashed. I am sorry you have too much time on your hands--that is what happens when you live in your mom's basement.
     
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  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well I dont think you are buying a bad product. It is the other stuff around it that is misleading.

    Again, champ, I have said over and over again that the method is not wrong, bad, erroneous, etc... etcc...got it?

    What I did say is the information about how pros wait for the bounce to prepare is stupid!!!!! It is not true! When any one confronts the "Father" on this, he avoids answering it even with proof! Beach Tennis operates the same way! Even with solid evidence that Federer clear has a released wrist in his shot, he still denies it!

    Look at the film. Take whatever works from Oscar and use it! But dont tell us that pros prepare during or after the bounce!

    Here is the film!

    http://www.uspta.com/html/e-lesson-Backhand%20back%20view.swf

    Did he prepare during or after the ball bounce? The answer is NO!!!!!!!!!
     
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  7. BeachTennis

    BeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    Beach said what ?

    Find that line and quote me !
     
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  8. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    No need to find the line, just read the whole thread! Isn't it true that is a player has flex in the wrist area that it will injure the wrist? ;)
     
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  9. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Come on bill i have heard you+ many others say that oscars teaching methods are wrong.There is no cult following here,i just stated the truth about my expereinces with conventional teaching+OW methods.

    The thing that surprised me so much was that on a tennis site OW would be hated so much.Now i realize that OW does come on strong with his insults to other teaching methods.

    That is not what i am interested in i am into results+by using his instruction i received them.I see a lot of people still using eastern grips+hitting flatter,the traditional way+ with good results.

    So you can be succesful either way,i just know that traditional did not work for me.I tried both ways+there was no comparison in the 2,but that doesnt mean it is for everybody.
     
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  10. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    It is all in good fun. :)
     
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  11. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

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    I am glad that OW method works for your kid, as a parent myself I can certainly sympathze. In my case OW method, isn't what rubs me wrong, its just like all "methods" some good, some bad IMHO, it's all the bs he spews in order to sell the product that I admit gets on my nerves. I totally understand the second part of your post, my kids may never get to be pros, I just want them to play as well as they can and have fun-this weekend my 11 y/o won a sattelite level tournament with her "obsolete" flat strokes.:) Good luck with your girls.
     
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  12. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    By the way BB i have learned a lot from your advice also.
     
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  13. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Hey tennisparent i dont think flat strokes are obsolete,most of the better older players i see use them.By the way they are some of the best players at the club i play at.

    But in the pros it does seem to be obsolete.Most club players i see are into s+v with conventional strokes.In the pro game seems like western grips+baseline bashing has taken over.
     
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  14. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

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    Hi tlm, of course, I really wasn't referring to you. I know you have made this observation before about the players in your area. BTW, I am being sarcastic when referring to using "obsolete" and "flat" I teach my kids to drive the ball with a moderate amt. of topspin, not exactly flat, just not w/ the loopy clay court type topspin I think folks end up with using OW method. I agree that baseline bashing has taken over the pro game, a development that is aided in large part by equipment and surfaces of today, not sure if that's such a good thing, but that is another debate huh. At the club level though, I think that different styles such as sv or even (ugh) pushing can be very effective for us normal human beings.
     
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  15. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Repeat:

    BUNGALOW WHO?

    Tell us your credentials FIRST so everyone would know "WHO'S TALKING".
     
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  16. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Don't tell us that a QUACK is more reliable than BUNGALOW WHO? geez!
     
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  17. DoubleHanded&LovinIt

    DoubleHanded&LovinIt Professional

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    artworks, your signature does a real service to those of us trying to figure out your viewpoint in this thread. You, for some reason, dislike/disagree with Bungalo Bill and are therefore jumping on the jump on Bill bandwagon with the likes of tlm, BeachTennis, and tsungtak. Thanks for being honest in your approach.

    Most confusing, in all of this to me, is the position of BeachTennis. At one point, he's making fun of Oscar for nearly tripping over his feet, stating that pushing the racquet out to contact is the way to go, and then later lauds Oscar--a guy who, as JCo has explained, endorses pulling off the ball at the moment of contact. BeachTennis, your lack of a position, pardon me, is straight-up idiotic!

    Bill, keep up the great work!
     
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  18. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Thanks for your comments.

    We know who's Oscar Wegner, but not the person(s) behind the alternicks in this portal. It wouldn't be fair when someone is contesting and ridiculing the teaching method of the gentleman while he doesn't introduce himself and tell us of his credentials.
     
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  19. DoubleHanded&LovinIt

    DoubleHanded&LovinIt Professional

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    artworks, your welcome. But my comments weren't supposed to be taken as complimentary. I don't think piling on Bill is right--piling on is just wrong to begin with and also I happen to agree with Bill on almost every issue that comes up with tennis technique.

    Bill's credentials? Read through his posts, he was a UPSTA professional, taught over at Vic Braden's place, and is a contributor at John Yandell's incredible site tennisplayer.net. Need more?
     
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  20. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Complimentary or not, I thank you for your comments my dear.

    I was once a member of Tennisone.com. Have downloaded almost all the lessons on their website. I came accross Wegner's website and found the explanation comprehensive and easily understood.

    Yes, I've been reading some of Bungalow Bill's post under Tennis Tips/Instruction and I try to figure out what are those that might be applicable to my tennis game. I just really don't find "discrediting another person" crap a good idea for Bill to follow, even going after Wegner's personal belief. In short, getting "too personal".

    I'm receiving emails from Jonh Yandell's website as well. Vic Braden, John Yandell, Oscar Wegner, Bill who?
     
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  21. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    DoubleHanded&LovinIt, although its nice of you to talk for Bill. However we would appreciate if you let Bill Bungalow speak for himself.
     
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  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well I already have! Search and find! What do you want to hear? That I have been in the stands coaching famous tennis players? Not me. I am just a tennis coach who studies tennis technique. Nothing more and nothing less.

    If that is not enough for you, no worries listen to other people. I don't think John or Vic would be involved with someone if they didnt know what they are talking about.

    If I did coach top pros, I wouldnt be here offering free advice now would I? Take advantage of it, if you don't understand things, find someone that you can understand. I don't have a problem with that at all.

    Here is my "credentials" if that is what you want to call it.

    I played tennis for San Diego State a long time ago. I played tennis for a long time in sunny Southern California. Although I quit tennis (because of burnout), I still studied tennis from a technical perspective. I do not spend time learning racquet technology, string technology, court technology, or anything else but things that relate to technique, instruction, coaching, and physical fitness. That is it.

    My educational background is in human learning theory (how people learn), sports performance, and performance improvement technology (getting someone or something to do it better). I have a degree in business.

    Prior to being in two car accidents, I was an avid fitness nut, and use that knowledge in the sport of tennis today.

    I know what it is like learning tennis on your own and with a good coach. I also know what it feels like learning from not-so good coaches. I have an excellent talent in analysis and am able to take complex information and simplify it. I can get as technical as they come or as basic as they come.

    I have taught at Vic Bradens Tennis College but don't subscribe to all of Vic's teaching. It was a job and I often felt Vic was a bit too light on things. I think Vic is a great guy and has some great research that still stands, but I also have discarded a lot as invalid or simply viewed it as being a bit wierd.

    I am a hodge podge of instructional technique, I don't ever say "this guy knows it all." I take the good from coaches and discard the stuff that is iffy or not so verifiable.

    John Yandell and I are friends. He knows his stuff and I will yield to those that I feel know what they are talking about. TennisMastery is also now my friend and we as of today had a good conversation on tennis. He is also going to help me learn more about his insights on the twohanded forehand.

    My main claim to fame is my ability to see things, communicate things, and mix in how the brain learns and transforms physical movement into a result. Am I an expert in it? Nope, I am still learning. I still read biomechanic articles from experts in their field. I still yield and listen to "top" coaches and their insights. I will probably always argue my point of view with great coaches. But one thing I will do is admit when I got something wrong. I think I might be doing that soon with TennisMastery's research and experience with the twohanded forehand.

    My goal right now, is not to be a 5.5 or above player. Although I could if I wanted to sacrafice some things dear to me.

    Several years ago, I was here reading advice and at the time the advice was not so good. So, I invented a character called Bungalow Bill and started typing. It is funny when you are actually making sense that people label you as a "know-it-all" but yet I don't know it all. The real issue was it was easy to give good advice over the bad. So I stood out.

    The other thing I have going for me is I truly care about how players grow in tennis more than my own game. I could really careless how I hit a ball. I can hit all the serves, all the forehands, all the backhands, and all the volleys (Eastern and Continental). My real aspirations is to offer advice for free to those that want to get better at their game. I really care about that.

    I care about your goals, how well you are doing with your relationships, your fitness, your technique, and whatever else concerns you.

    I will go to great lengths to answer your questions via email or withing this forum. I will take the time to answer the same question over and over again. I will try to paint the picture from different angles hoping that you will get an ahhhh-haaaa out of it.

    I love to write and I love to see if I can teach someone here without ever stepping on the court. I find teaching on the court very easy. I have everything at my disposal to get my point across. I am a no-nonsense type of coach and value hard training to improve a tennis player.

    If you ever take a lesson from me, the last thing I ever want to hear is that it was a waste of money. I will care more about the lesson or my writings more then you ever could imagine, which is why I am editing my posts constantly.

    So you are right, you don't have to do a darn thing with my posts. But you need to know this, if you ever have a question, I will be there to answer it. :)
     
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  23. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    You are creating a false dichtomy with your post. There's no "OW way or the Traditional way." (I've easily understood BB in this. You seem determined to misinterpret what BB has already posted.)

    The problem many of us have with OW is ... he is a phony self-promoter. (Go back and re-read that previous sentence. You may notice I did not condemn his "method".)

    [In case you're planning to ask, I was a Teaching Pro for 12 years and I've Coached HS tennis for four years ... and I took First Place in the 5th & 6th Grade Spelling Bee. (If I were as shifty as OW, I'd also claim to have "worked with Chris Evert" ... because she ran into me, almost knocking me down, trying to escape the groupies at the USO in '73. I'm sure that encounter helped her game though.)]

    Am I the only one who noticed the irony here? (artworks - In case you missed it, you -- who are posting on behalf of OW -- chide someone for posting on behalf of BB. Did you get it?)

    - KK
     
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  24. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    This bore repeating. Thanks Bill, for focusing on the real problem. OW calls preparation "take back" and others call it "shoulder turn" "preparation", etc.

    When I was a TP (in the '70s) there was one fellow in town whose students DID indeed run around for their shots with their rackets pointing at the back fence. (Notably, most of his students no longer play tennis.) All of the rest of us TP's in that town disagreed with *that TP's instruction.

    - KK
     
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  25. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    I would have disagreed right along with you. :)
     
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  26. DoubleHanded&LovinIt

    DoubleHanded&LovinIt Professional

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    Kaptain Karl,

    Don't call the Wegnerites out on their false dichotomies and straw-mans--if you take that away from them, what will be left?

    Also, since you are a moderator, please take up this issue about the poster heylookimachink. That kind of racism is unacceptable and the poster should be either banned or at the very least be forced to change his user name. Don't you think? I'd appreciate your consideration in this matter. Thanks.
     
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  27. vinky

    vinky Rookie

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    I agree with this. It's a fallacy to make this distinction.
     
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  28. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    KK, I just hope OW is also with us here in this forum. While having BB live here and speak for him is another story...
     
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  29. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    He won't, several of us have gone to him and posted our questions, he has yet to answer them. At the very least he doesn't answer the questions directly and often evades the real question. :)
     
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  30. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    I'm listening and I thank you for your sincere effort to reply to my post. However, I still would like to know the gentleman behind the username Bungalow Bill.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't it John Yandell was/or still associated with Tennisone.com before he started his own website?

    Incidentally, I also do have subscription with Brent Abel (though his teaching contradicts that of OW), and as you can see, I heavily rely on online coaching and so I want to know the coach's credibility and you can't blame me as I pay my hard earned money to improve and enjoy playing tennis.
     
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  31. waves2ya

    waves2ya Rookie

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    So Bill (bio submitted afterall)...

    What's w/ the surfer icon? And - did someone spoof you over at that other site (New Testament stuff) or are you just as passionate about Christ & Holy Spirit as you are... tennis?

    Just curious (yes - my .sig outs me as a surfer; it's a salutation in the line-up).
     
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  32. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    What's up with the "I pay my hard earned money?" Last I checked this was a free forum. And good god, how much more does Bungalow Bill have to tell you about himself??
     
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  33. just out

    just out New User

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    You heavily rely on online coaching, that's probably your first mistake. Do you pay to improve and enjoy, or do you pay to improve so that you will enjoy? I'm not improving much anymore and still enjoy !!!!!!!

    BB, better get ready for that complete background check before you give any more free advice :)
     
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  34. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

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    LOL, I agree. I think that the great body of work and commitment to the growth of this forum BB makes speaks for itself. The fact that he does it for FREE and doesn't have a website, dvd or book to sell only enhances his credibility in my eyes.
     
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  35. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    The New Testament stuff is a way for me to combat the junk of Scientology. It is sort of a clashing of swords so to speak. If Oscar wants to go that direction (philisophical, religious, or spiritual) I will go that direction, I just choose a different weapon. Oscar is not answering my questions. He always has a squishy, squirmy, slippery way of talking. I don't know how else to combat that Scientology junk, so I figure I let Him fight it and wait till he gets back on tennis. :)

    The surfing pitcure is my in me 20's at my favorite break called Gas Chambers. I loved to surf. It was extremely relaxing. It is in Hawaii an me and a couple of guys rented the house in front of this break. Surfing is the other sport I love with a close third to volleyball. I managed to work my way up to surfing 10ft. North Shore. A friend of mine took the photo.

    Here is the thing, I am not a superstar tennis player nor a superstar coach. I am simply a lot like you guys are. I payed my dues, walked through the frustration, the practices, the drills, the goals, the aspirations, I experienced burnout, I experienced success, I experienced failure, I experienced different coaching styles and no coaching style. I couldn't afford lessons while my rich friends could, I would take pictures with to the wall and practice. I heard the myths, believed the myths, found out the myths were lies, and grew up seeing some of the best names in tennis.

    With all the experience I have had, coupled with the educational background, and coaching background, I am putting it all together and I seek to provide good instruction and not ask for a dime in exchange. I never had this board when I was younger. The internet was not public at the time. :)
     
    #85
  36. waves2ya

    waves2ya Rookie

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    Hey - a big mahalo for the honest answer (takes guts in a snarky iNet world like this)...

    And, as always & in advance, for the tennis tips!
     
    #86
  37. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    It will not do good to jump on the gun without properly thinking.
     
    #87
  38. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Probable mistake, KID? Sorry, you don't understand.
     
    #88
  39. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    What do you mean by jumping the gun without thinking?

    And I was just curious if you are sending Bungalo Bill checks in the mail. If so, that's fantastic. BB is more qualified than any coach I know. He has studied video relentlessy, studied every major theory of modern strokes out there, integrated those theories, and not to mention worked with people in this forum for I don't know how long out of sheer passion for the game and for teaching others. In my opinion a guy like that could easily charge 100 bucks an hour for his superior technical knowledge and expertise.

    Now if I am mistaken and you are not sending BB checks in the mail, then I don't get your point about what your hard earned money has to do with BB's credentials?

    Please elaborate, I'm confused.
     
    #89
  40. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Who said that members have to pay for this forum? :mrgreen:

    There are countless of tennis website offering free tips and instruction online. But there are those who have made capital investment and do business.

    I'm in this website mainly for products as a regular customer of TW. I just find it unethical for someone behind an alternick to attack the personal ways of other people in the Tennis Community.
     
    #90
  41. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Didn't you just jump of the gun? And now you're confused!
     
    #91
  42. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    Well from what I understand it's a lot more than BB that have disagreements with Wegner. And BB didn't even start this post. I did! But if you read what BB says, he is very specific about his criticism. False or misleading or exaggerated claims. I actually like a lot of Oscar's stuff (despite the pull off the ball idea), and BB says he has problems with only some of his ideas, while liking other parts.

    But I did immediately wonder about Oscar's inflated credentials myself when I first found out about him. I seriously doubt he had anything to do with Kuerten. And he makes claims like this, taken directly from his website:

    "Venus and Serena Williams, Guga Kuerten, Paradorn Srichaphan, Vincent Spadea, Marat Safin, the pros and coaches of the Spanish Armada, the new crop of Argentinian and South American players, Russians, are part of a long list of players and coaches who have benefited from Oscar Wegner's teaching legacy."

    That seems a little overblown doesn't it?
     
    #92
  43. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    I'll tell you what makes me uncomfortable.

    The person who's teaching method is put into question is Oscar Wegner (real name and a tennis personality in his own right) and the guy who scrutinizes the method with corresponding personal attacks (which I really find unethical and unprofessional) is hidden behind an alternick called Bungalow Bill.

    Not disclosing your true indentity coupled with personal attacks only put you in a very awkward postion in the eyes of professional people.

    I'm okay in discussing tennis technique. People will have different teachings and preference. But no need TO ATTACK other people who do not conform with what you thought is the right way.
     
    #93
  44. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Interesting to note is that nobody (include Bjorn Borg in the list as well) amongst those mentioned big names DISOWN Oscar's claim.

    Let me know if one of them sue's him for using their names to gain grounds or take advantage in his tennis business.

    I bought Oscar's tennis products, and if he's LYING. I'll be totally DISAPPOINTED in paying him my "HARD EARNED MONEY."
     
    #94
  45. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    So, Artworks, what is your real name, address, and phone number?

    -Robert
     
    #95
  46. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    Nice try Bob! :mrgreen:
     
    #96
  47. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    If you find that "unethical" you are in for very many disappointments in life.

    I find it unseemly that you would "promote" a competitor's teaching (and transitively, his own forum) here on TT. You must have really odd "roots' ... ethically speaking.

    - KK
     
    #97
  48. artworks

    artworks Rookie

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    I've always believe the TTW is an integral part of TW.

    As I've said in my previous post, I'm a regular on-line customer of TW products. This is the reason why I'm here. Not to promote product. I am a customer not supplier.

    If some people could not differentiate Ethical from Unethical then I'll rest my case.

    DISAPPOINMENT? I'm happy with the products I've had so far.
     
    #98
  49. tsungtak

    tsungtak Guest

    Pull across their body

    “Pull across their body” was the original question on this post, My daughter and I have tried this, for my daughter it worked and I am still trying to make it work for me. Before I go any further let me say when you are dealing with an Oscar dvd, it is like a legal contract, YOU HAVE TO READ THE FINE PRINT. When you watch his video some things stand out more than others, but it seems like the small things are what make the stroke work.

    This has been our experience, with my daughter it has taken her 3 months, 5 days a week before the light bulb came on, but when it came on it was bright. Her forehand use to be a drive with a little topspin, the result was very inconsistent and tended to go long. It had a nice kick but it never bounced very high around the hip area (the strike zone for her opponent). Her new forehand is very consistent with a lot of kick, it has lost some of its pace but gained a lot more angles.

    With me it has been a different story, it doesn’t work with a continental grip and every time I try it I have a sore chest and shoulder. Earlier BB said “The pulling does not take place at the elbow which many end up doing.” is what I experienced.

    My conclusion is that this works good for the younger generation who grew up with the open stance, semi western grip and are in great shape. Or you have no tennis experience. One more thing I don’t think this is a good style of forehand if you are a small frame female.
     
    #99
  50. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    LOL
     

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