Wegner forehand article

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by JCo872, May 26, 2006.

  1. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    You do have a point there.
     
  2. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    Yes, definitely doesn't work with a continental grip at all. I'm glad it worked for your daughter. I think his ideas are excellent to be honest, I just wish he would look at video and get a more realistic notion of what happens at contact. Before you sweep across the body, you need to hit through the ball for a bit. I saw an article on TennisOne about this kid named Jan who apparently watches Oscar's videos all day. The kid was amazing. I think Oscar has a good sense of the rhythm and timing of modern strokes. If he would just say that pros really hit through the ball and lift and stay behind the ball BEFORE sweeping across I'd be happy. He's right that you don't "hit through five balls" but you do have to go through contact before sweeping across the body, which you can clearly see on that "How to hit Topspin" article I posted.
     
  3. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I don't have enough posting experience with you to claim you "dodged" my point ... but I wonder.

    You thought it "unethical" that BB challenged OW while "hiding" behind a pseudodym. (One, BTW, he has written under for years ... on more than one highly regarded site.) My point in posting you are in for lots of disappointment is ... the mini-conspiracy you see in BB's use of a screen name suggests to me you will find lots of reasons to distrust, dislike, and disassociate yourself from some vibrant "communities". You'll be ... disappointed ... a lot.

    (Notice, there's nothing in my suggestion about "as a TW customer.")

    P.S. Is English a second or tertiary language for you? Serious question....

    - KK
     
  4. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well you can call it an attack. I call it a challenge. You use an alternate ego and have just "attacked" or "challenged" my credentials. So is it okay for you to do so and not others?

    Or are you just dumb and blind?

    Quit being so weakminded and stand up straight. I have been attacked, you have been attacked, everyone that posts with any amount of volume will be attacked. Get real man, this is the nature of these boards and the internet. Get a backbone and quit crying.

    I really don't care what you think about my post to Oscar (your Father), my post stands. He has yet to answer it. In fact, he has summoned one of his sidekicks to take it to email to convince us of Oscar's divinity. Which I can't wait to thrash. You ought to read his crap. It is more vague than his master's comeback.

    If you like Oscar's methods fine. If I don't care for Oscar and have made my points, what do you care? Don't I get to choose if I think he is bunk? Aren't I privledged to have my own opinion even though it shakes the knees of weak-knee'd sisters like you?

    If I told you that most of Vic Bradens' stuff was quackery would you even care? I even worked for the guy! Why do Oscar followers get such conviction when people point out that something aint right?
     
  5. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    No need to start asking people if they are dumb and blind. Just state your opinion and leave it at that.
     
  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, well, no need to antagonize to stir up rif-raf either. Didn't you say you like to antagonize yourself? Am I the aim at times for that?

    It is funny how people here dont like to be antagonized but yet are antagonizers themselves.

    People say don't argue, but yet when a topic is near and dear to their hearts - they argue.

    People say dont call someone a name, but turn around and call someone a name when their views are challenged.

    Maybe I should have said "Now, look at your statement, read the challenge you gave me, then look at your nickname. Is that your real name? Does your statement seem to be idiotic in nature? If someone wrote this to you, would you think this person was lacking something - like intelligence?"

    How is that? I am not calling him an idiot but stated my opinion that his statement was idiotic. Is that better for you Mr. Antagonizer?

    I pulled up a Thesaurus and found the word IDIOTIC. Is there a better word that I could have used to express my opinion?

    Main Entry: idiotic
    Part of Speech: adjective
    Definition: stupid
    Synonyms: asinine, batty*, crazy, daffy*, daft, ding-a-ling, dull, dumb, dumdum, fatuous, foolhardy, foolish, gorked, half-witted, hare-brained, harebrained*, imbecile, imbecilic, inane, insane, jackass, jerk off, lunatic, moronic, senseless, silly, squirrelly*, thick-witted*, unintelligent.


    Kevhen, you are the last person that should be saying this.
     
  7. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Arguing is not the same as name calling. I will antagonize if you persist in name calling when others don't agree with you. State your tennis-related opinion and leave it at that.
     
  8. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Here is a conversation I am having (or had) with a poster on OSCAR WEGNERS WEBSITE. One of the posters here at TW (no need to remember as he wasn't important), cryed about me saying all this stuff about Oscar here versus to his face. So guess what I did? Yup, I created a thread on his very own website. But the following post was interesting. I am sure Oscar is a busy man and is the reason why he doesn't respond to Cannondale.

    ==========================================================
    Cannondale
    Registered User Join Date: May 2006
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    Question for Bungalow Bill Please Help!

    Bugalow Bill, it seems that Mr. Wegner is not contributing much to this forum so I will address my question to you. I play 3.5/4.0 singles, pretty happy overall with my game but for some reason I give up too many free points with my forehand return on soft easy second serves, usually blowing these long, but sometimes net. No problems rallying with fh from baseline and with returning hard serves. Just on the creampuffs No such prob on my 2 handed backhand. I use a southwestern grip and hit with moderate topspin, when I try to hit more topspin, closing face it nets, tried laying back wrist as someone suggested and bigger wiper motion, but made even more errors. Please help!

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Bungalow Bill
    Registered User Join Date: May 2006
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    There are a couple things that will help you in this area. They both require focus.

    First, on second serves try playing like the server does. This will take a mind shift. For example, when the server serves to his box, return the ball to your box as if you were the server. This will help you hit through the ball but also not overhit which is the tendency for players still developing their service returns. Chances are you will find the "swing speed" that will allow you to hit a bit deeper for a consistent return of serve. By the way, this is a great way to return in doubles. For now, THINK BOX TO BOX.

    Secondly, you need to practice your service returns. You can practice be choking up on the handle which will shorten your swing and will "deaden" your hit to help it land in the court. The other thing you need to determine is what you are doing with your backswing.

    It is not enough to "think" you have a short backswing. You must analyze it and determine visually (you personally) what it is and what it is doing.

    First you must place your toes on the sideline with your body perpendicular to the net, then take your racquet back being careful to NOT cross the line in the backswing. The is the maximum backswing you should have for your groundstrokes and definetly the maximum swing for the service return. In fact, I would bring the racquet up some from there for better timing.

    Now, film yourself and see if you are staying within those guidelines. Next, have someone serve you balls from the service line as they provide you feedback when they think your swing went to far. That will help you hone in the backswing.
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    #34 05-24-2006, 02:29 PM
    Cannondale
    Registered User Join Date: May 2006
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    Thanks so much. You are suggesting a completely differnet but promising solution for my problem, I have tried to fix my errant forehand by using technical means ex. differnt swing paths, trying stronger grips or trying to hit with more topspin as suggested to me by others all to no avail. What you are suggesting seems to be more along the lines of a mental and tactical solution. I will try this at once.

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    #35 05-24-2006, 05:49 PM
    Cannondale
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    Wow

    Bill, Wow, just came in after a couple hours of practise with my buddy. Your tips absolutely worked! Much more consistent than before. Patience is the key. I am looking forward to putting this into play this weekend in a match that counts. Thank you so much.

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    #36 Yesterday, 08:34 PM
    Bungalow Bill
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    That is great! By the way, I am labelled a "conventional" tennis teacher on Oscar's terms so in essence I don't know what I am talking about.

    Keep practicing and stay focused on what you are trying to do.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    So, I am a bad coach? I don't know what I am talking about? Does anyone really think that it is HARDER to show a person this on-court vs. instructing someone miles away over words?

    NoBadMojo called me a person that has NO CLUE what I am talking about and so have several others. He often jumps into my posts to batter them, discredit, and downplay my accomplishments, but yet turns around and pretends he is the good guy. And so do some others here.

    Additionally, does a coach need to have played in the pros, played in college, write books, in order to know how to teach tennis? How many good pros out there don't have those credentials? How many good pros are providing outstanding tips, verified by people using the tips, and are DOING IT FOR FREE???????????
     
  9. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    Actually, I reckon Wegner is correct. Federer's forehand illustrates this perfectly. If there's some replay footage, look at the path of the ball after he has hit it. The initial projection is straight up on every one of his rally balls (those hit with moderate or excessive spin, not his flattened out winners). The only way to do that is to pull up on the ball at the point of impact. You don't stop the racquet from moving foreward (that's completely silly and out of your control - that's just the momentum from the foreward swing) but you can concentrate on using your muscles to pull it to the left and up which generates an incredible amount of spin. It works damn well. I'm hitting heavier balls than I ever have by doing this and winning so many matches just by hitting with margin and getting the ball to hit the court and accelerate towards the back fence. It's aggressive and safe, allowing you to keep your oppenent pinned back and half the time, you only need to hit the ball moderately deep. He's bascially teaching you to use topspin as a weapon and not just for keeping the ball in play. It's genius.
     
  10. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!
    Federer forehand is not being pulled ACROSS the body!!
    He is hitting through and up!
    HE prepares EARLY. Way early





    You are hitting heavier ball because you are hitting through AND with lots of topsin. Totally oposite of what OW is claiminig!!!!!!!


    Regards, Predrag
     
  11. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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  12. predrag

    predrag Professional

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  13. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    This:

    A picture is worth a thousand words.

    I've already engaged in this debate, ad nauseum, with some OW devotees on this forum if you care to search.

    5
     
  14. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    Hey, I just wanted to make sure what you meant.
    The thing is OW people can watch the same video and come up with totally opposite conclusion.

    Regards, Predrag
     
  15. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    ...I agree. This a "wonderment" to me.

    5
     
  16. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    LOL! Very good Predrag, long time no hear. How is your tennis thing going?
     
  17. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    Tennis? My tennis? What my tennis? :)

    Not that bad. I've been lurking on this board, just don't post much.

    This weekend I was in your old neighborhood, or almost there.
    Costa Mesa. Took my son to Quicksliver Championships.

    Regards, predrag
     
  18. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Quicksilver? What? huh? What do you mean? Quicksilver used to have their stuff in mainly surfing but they have branched out. What was it?

    Good to hear from you again, hope you are enjoying.
     
  19. predrag

    predrag Professional

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    :mrgreen:

    That's the name of the National tournament. Tennis of course :)
    LAst weekend in Costa MEssa, Irvine, ...

    predrag
     
  20. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    When you are out of it, you are out of it. I think it is one of those age things. :( Great going!
     
  21. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    federer may prepare reasonably early (it really is only an average takeback) but he delays the stroke until the ball hits the court. And the topspin I'm generating is because of the lifting action I'm using. This is where Oscar's writing is open to interpratation. I don't think he's telling you to stop the forward momentum on the stroke....you basically can't do that. But he is telling you to regard tennis as a game of lifting the ball against gravity which you do most effectively by pulling up and wrapping your racquet around to your left. There's a lot of space above the net and this is the most effective way to use it. You can't control your arm once you decide to hit through the ball (horizontal component) but you can control the vertical component of your shot.
     
  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    You guys are so whacked. First you say the takeback doesn't happen until the boounce, now you say it does. What a bunch of whackos.

    Here is the bottom-line: The ball travels from one end to the court to the other in about a second. Yes, ONE SECOND. Do you really think all this "delay" stuff or no "delay" stuff is really preventing players from getting better? The truth is film after film reveals that a professional player WILL BRING THE RACQUET BACK OR PREPARE THE RACQUET BEFORE THE BOUNCE. Unless the ball is hit by grandma, or the ball is coming over in slo-motion, or is a slow ball period, pros will prepare the racquet by taking it back with their shoulder turn BEFORE THE BOUNCE.

    How many amens do I have here?

    You have got to be kidding me! PAGE 43 (last sentence) from VIC BRADEN'S TENNIS 2000; "DON'T FORGET: TENNIS IS A LIFTING GAME."

    Every stroke needs to have SOMETHING going forward into the ball. Players need to rotate INTO the ball and not away from it. Players need to STEP into the line of the incoming ball to increase their chances for clean contact. In either stance, open, closed, semi-open, neutral, or forward, something needs to go INTO the ball.
     
  23. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Amen!

    - KK
     
  24. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Well, we may all be misinterpreting Wegner here. Words have that effect, as we all know...

    Watching his video on tennisone, I think what he means is to hit from the inside to the outside. Of course, there will be a significant forward component to the swing. But there is also a huge rotational component caused by going from the inside to the outside, and one could say the racquet is "pulled back" in from the outside to the inside on the latter part of the swing.

    Just my $0.02.
     
  25. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    Geez, the takeback obviously happens before the bounce but the foward part of the stroke happens after, unless you guess where the ball is going to be and swing through in an attempt to take it early.

    The something going forward is your arm + the weight and momentum of the racquet as you start your foward swing
    ----------------------> that's the horizontal component.
    Any vertical action is up to you....I feel it is best achived by pulling straight up on it without stopping your forward momentum.
     
  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Well you Oscar guys finally got it right.

    Of course it does, everyone would look silly if they swung forward before the bounce. Only if you are trying to pick up the ball from the bounce or taking it quickly off the rise would you try to expedite the forward swing to time the ball.

    Man, I need to learn how to search in here. I know I had a post explaining all of this backswing and forward swing stuff to a Wagnerite.

    Yeah no kidding.

    What you are saying is if the player rotates his shoulders back properly (or enough), he will rotate or uncoil right back towards the ball. With the racquet beginning to come forward lower than the ball, he can either go straight up or use the natural angle of the arm lifting up which is right around 30 degrees.

    Using the 30 degree angle and providing lift from your legs, the ball will feel like it explodes or pops off the racquet without much effort.

    The pulling of the racquet is old news and gets started by the shoulder. The lifting is old news as pointed out above. The coiling and uncoiling is old news as this is taught all over the place.
     
  27. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    lol....so does it really matter who is wrong or right ? Oscar summarises it in a nice package and places the emphasis where it should be. It's great how his advice isn't technical at all so you don't bother to try and fix up little techinical deficiences because most of the timne you are clutching at straws unless it's really really obvious what you are doing wrong. When it comes down to it, singles tennis is all about how good an athlete you are and not really if you technically proficient.
     
  28. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    No it doesnt matter, which is exactly my point.

    Oscar claims that all coaches that are not teaching his way are old, conventional, and obsolete. He claims he is the Father of Modern Tennis and makes false claims regarding his "inventions" to the modern game.

    Further, I was on his website when he indicated that he was the one that introduced the open stance. I posted a 1926 picture of a professional hitting from the open stance. He also is starting to take claim about pulling the racquet forward, the diaganol path the racquet handle makes as it passes in front of the body which has already been mentioned by Pat Dougherty.

    Once again, a lot of things that "Oscar" says he invented or has said he has been saying for years has already been said. If this is the case, then he is not the Father of Modern tennis, he is not truthful, and his little war against coaches that belong to the USPTA or any other organization is unfounded.
     
  29. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    Well, he hardly invented them considering that he just looked at the way other players played but you have to give him credit for bringing it all together into a neat package that's very easy to learn. As for his war against the traditional coaches, I don't really care about that....a lot of traditional coaches are sometimes just as stubborn.
     
  30. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    But others have also brought it together in their way. He has nothing new but claims he made it all.

    LOL!!! Well, I do care.

    Plus, stubborn about what? Didn't I just tell you that Oscar didn't invent anything? Didn't I just indicate that the information that Oscar claims is his own, coaches already knew about? Why would they be stubborn for something they already know? If you want to talk about stubborn, try talking to your buddies about what pros do before the ball bounces. LOL

    Here is a post from Oscar's website as I helped one of the posters there:
    =========================================================================
    CANNONDALE
    Bill, Wow, just came in after a couple hours of practise with my buddy. Your tips absolutely worked! Much more consistent than before. Patience is the key. I am looking forward to putting this into play this weekend in a match that counts. Thank you so much.

    BUNGALOW BILL
    That is great! By the way, I am labelled a "conventional" tennis teacher on Oscar's terms so in essence I don't know what I am talking about.

    Keep practicing and stay focused on what you are trying to do.
     
  31. Rez_PS2

    Rez_PS2 New User

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    How do you label yourself as a 'conventional' tennis teacher ? I've seen coaches that won't even teach you how to brush the ball for spin as in it's better to use a non-extreme grip and hit thorough it exclusively. Aren't some of your tips pretty much alluding to the same thing as Wegner's tips ? All it looks like Oscar is saying is to use spin as your stock rally ball and when you are feeling confident you can try other things....if it's not working then you can always go back to that. He may be an idiot for trying to trademark these ideas as all his, but that doesn't make his summary wrong as what a lot of people here seem to claim.
     
  32. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    This is exactly my point. Oscar's stance that he constantly perpetuates is that any one that belongs to the USPTA or other professional teaching organizations is "old school", "out of touch", "doing a disservice to their students", and simply will not be able to take their students to the level the pros are playing at. Do you understand this?

    I am a former USPTA member and find it difficult to believe that Oscar (as smart as the guy is) would say something like that. Or, perpetuate something like that. He gets people to think that all the coaches in the USPTA march to the methods prescribed by the USPTA. This is so far from the truth!

    And you are darn right! My methods are not "conventional" in the sense Oscar is saying. Neither is John Yandell's and many many other coaches that belong to the USPTA.

    All coaches have contributed to the modern game, all coaches that do not teach Oscar's methods are not stuck in the mud with no place to go.

    And that is different from what other coaches would say?"
    =====================================================
    TENNIS 2000; Vic Braden, page 27: "When I wrote the original edition of this book in the mid-1970's, I stressed the fact that I had always been fascinated by the misconceptions that had given topspin a bad image...the belief that underspin is the easier stroke to learn and control. On the contrary, it has been my experience over the years that underspin is far more difficult to teach to the average player because it demands more talent and timing. I feel topspin is much easier to impart, more reliable under pressure, and much more valuable to players of every ability level.
    ======================================================

    Here is the deal. Oscar didn't invent anything except for the way he wants to teach tennis to his students. He like any other good coach borrowed and used information that already existed and incorporated it in his instruction like any other coach in all the teaching organizations.

    No absolutely not. I have already said that I have no problem with the methods he uses, or his insight to the game of tennis, the guy is a smart man and an excellent tennis player.

    His other stuff is what is bothersome to me as well as a lot of other coaches. It isn't just me that has an issue with his narcotically influenced statements, it is others as well. It is also how the followers of Oscar take it. They to become enchanted and start doing and saying things that are not right. They believe Oscar without investigating the truth about things.
     
  33. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Here are Oscar's words, verbatim, from tennisw.com:

    I've highlighted some stuff which seems to be bothering some folks here. Frankly, Oscar seems to be a hell of a nice guy, and the title "Father of Modern Tennis" doesn't seem to be something he claimed for himself (see above).

    Also, he's polite, he makes it clear that people are free to make their own choice, and he's not as harshly critical as folks on this board. I searched the web for instances of where he might have been very harshly critical, but could find nothing comparable to what happens on TW!! In fact, all the indications are that Oscar is a gentleman.

    C'mon, guys, give the man a break, be fair. I am not an Oscar follower, but please, give the poor guy his due! I think he was a man with great insight and courage, for having offered these techniques in the late 60's. Okay, you don't like his website - so don't go to it!
     
  34. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    Thanks for the post TennisPlayer. I agree with you.
     
  35. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    So wait, people like Yandell, King, and others are catching up? does he feel the same way about Braden and others? ;)

    I appreciate the article TennisPlayer, I really do. But it is funny how this guy changes his tune. It is also equally funny how very few of his offsprings say it this way. The offsprings he produces are pretty adimant about "OLD SCHOOL" vs. "OSCAR'S SCHOOL".

    The other interesting thing is if Oscar had a hard time "pushing" his program into the USPTA can you come up with a reason why? The USPTA offers all coaches the ability to teach with their own methods and styles. They do not subscribe to one thing.

    The things Oscar has been saying has been said for years. There is nothing new except for the difference in how he says it. So why pick on all the coaches in the USPTA?

    Although I can tell you many things I dont agree with Braden on, one thing is, he had a lot of good information to follow as well. But I don't see him marching against the USPTA or the USTA, or any other organization.

    So why is it that his disciples get his message wrong? Could it be that he says one thing and writes another?
     
  36. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

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    Amen. On the one hand he is saying everyone is free to do whatever is best for them, on the other hand his mission is to stamp out conventional (ie anyone else's) tennis instruction. Yes, he seems gentlemanly when confronted, but at the same time reserves the right to characterize others as dinosaurs. He still hasn't identified who teaches flat rigid forehands, I'm still waiting for the bounce:) on that one Oscar. I guess everyone is for tolerance and free speech when it applies to them.
     
  37. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    Yeah I just let the "catching up" comment slide. Doug King told me he never had heard of Oscar Wegner before. Not a slight or anything, just that Doug figured out his ideas through his own experimentation.
     
  38. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Let's not forget that Doug also has been well coached and is an accomplished player in his own right.
     
  39. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Well, TennisParent, from my own personal experiences, I can guarantee there are really awful coaches out there, even some with certifications! It's not so much that they don't know the right technique - they seem to play decently - but their teaching methods are terrible.

    From the discussions we've had on this board, I can tell with certainty that folks like BB and Mahboob Kahn (and many others) would be superior coaches. Because they can lead the student into doing the right thing without clouding their heads with technical details (which we love, so please keep those coming on this board!). And I have a feeling they really have more in common with Oscar than they realize! :) But sadly, many coaches lack the ability to lead students to the correct technique, even though they themselves play tennis with excellent technique.

    I agree that whoever did Oscar's website painted with a rather broad brush in rediculing the USPTR, but let's face it - it's routine marketing these days. We see much worse negative campaigning during our elections (in the US, that is)! And, I have to believe Oscar's detractors give him more grief than Oscar ever has to the so called tennis establishment! :) I say, wink and let it go!
     
  40. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    Well I think you are one reasonable man, an intelligent man, and one that views things in the proper light. Very well said post. I couldn't be in more agreement with you.

    I will pay you the 20 bucks we agreed on behind the scenes on the BB comment later. :)
     
  41. tennisplayer

    tennisplayer Rookie

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    Just mail it to the address we agreed on... :)
     
  42. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    Of course. He was a top college player and I think even tried the pro circuit. That doesn't happen without some seriously good coaching.
     
  43. JCo872

    JCo872 Professional

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    What I've seen, over and over and over again is this weird phenomenon of excellent players really having no idea how they do what they do. Their game is in their muscle memory, so they are stuck to teach the ideas that they have heard other coaches say. I can't tell you how many times I have taped a really good player, shown them the video, and they say things like "I had no idea I did this or that". I actually happens pretty much every time I do it. The other problem is that the way a stroke "feels" to a player (like snapping the wrist) is usually just a delayed sensation of something that happens in later parts of the stroke. There is a gap between our doing something, and our perception of it.

    So my point is that you can be fantastic at anything in life and have no freaking clue how you are doing it, let alone how to teach others. This is actually a good thing because you can't compete if you are thinking about the details of what you are doing.

    On the same note, take a guy like Bollitieri who I don't think can hit a tennis ball. But they guy has produced some of the best instructional videos around.
     
  44. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    He "offered" ... but three are "finally catching up" ... "harm to American tennis."

    Wow! What hubris.

    - KK
     
  45. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

    Joined:
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    Yes, I see these guys all the time here in my city. They love some book called "Play Better tennis in two hours!":)

    So true about the negative election campaigning, I hate to check my mail anymore!
     
  46. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
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    Check it! Check that email! Oscar's followers need to know that Oscar did not invent a thing. He simply created a method he felt worked for his own teaching style and for his students.

    The thing about the USPTA and other organizations is misguided. The USPTA most likely did not "laugh" him away. Many people simply get hurt if they can not have their way. Maybe Oscar was seeking a little power in the organization and to "run" it a certain way.

    Never give up and always speak up!
     
  47. TennisParent

    TennisParent Rookie

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    LOL, BB I meant I hate checking my snail mail because of all the negative political junk. :mad:
     
  48. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

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    Okay, you scared me for a moment. :cool:
     
  49. Ten_is

    Ten_is Rookie

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    Here's the funny thing..

    If you were to ask most pros or touring pros about their technique,.. they won't be able to tell you how they do it. They would just say i hit over my shoulder on forehands even though they are doing the 'windshield wiper' motion. They won't tell you.. i keep my grip loose just before impact, make sure the buttcap drives towards the ball foreward.. pulling and pressing against the ball.

    But that's what they do without realizing they're doing it. Why?

    Lot's of practice, lots of games, lots of mistakes.
    Just get out there and hit the ball as many times as you can. Move your feet. Get to the ball early,.. rotate your upper body before every shot (if possible). It's all very simple really.. you know what's right and what's wrong, you filter out what doesn't work for you through experience, you practice and make your own adjustments / amendments. Enjoy the game, stay competitive and don't take anything too seriously. :)

    If you're passionate and you love the game,..
     
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
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    Joe Dinoffer on takeback

    http://www.tennislife.com/06-editorial/03-2006/03-06-dinofer.html

    Myth Busters: Racket Back
    Part one of a three-part series
    By Joe Dinoffer
    Remember the tennis teacher tease: “Racket back. Bend your knees. That’ll be twenty dollars, please.”?

    One tennis myth started with the first instruction in this joke—“Racket back,” which has probably been shouted countless times across more tennis nets than strawberries sold throughout Wimbledon’s history. While this instruction can be helpful in some situations, in others it has caused numerous stroke limitations in literally millions of tennis players.

    In the past two decades, tennis has evolved well past the straight take-back backswing that became the signature styles of tennis champions Chris Evert and Jimmy Connors. With the advent of modern racket technology, the entire game has become modernized as well—even “powerized.”

    However, power alone doesn’t build a winning game. It must be used in tandem with control. And, at least on groundstrokes, topspin is the glue that allows power and control to adhere and be part of the same tennis arsenal.

    We all know that gravity is the main force that brings tennis balls back to the ground. Topspin creates an effect that actually assists gravity. When a tennis ball rotates through the air with forward spin or topspin, high air pressure is created above the ball and low air pressure beneath it. The result is that the ball is pushed downward by the higher pressure above it. This is why topspin lobs and loopers hit with heavy topspin can appear as though they will fly beyond the baseline, but then end up mysteriously dipping at the last moment to land inside the court.

    Why so much about power and topspin alongside the myth buster that “Racket back” may not be ideal instruction? Simple. To generate effective power and topspin on groundstrokes, and contrary to the popular instruction to take your racket back, you do not want to take your racket back and have it pause in the back position waiting to start the forward swing (see photo 1).

    Here are the facts behind this myth-busting argument:
    Racket momentum—It’s commonly understood that the longer the swing, the more racket head speed can be generated to create more ball speed, i.e., more power. Therefore, you do not want to take your racket back early and have it pause in the back position. The better choice is a loop backswing. Think of the shape of the letter C and you will start to get the picture.

    Low-to-high swing—To create topspin, a “brushing up” low-to-high swing is needed. The loop backswing previously described makes topspin possible.

    Running is hard—Running with your racket back, as in photo 1, is much harder than if your racket is comfortably set at your side.

    What’s the alternative to the instruction “Racket back”? How about “Racket set” (see photo 2)? The difference between the two is where the pause takes place. In taking your racket back, you pause with your racket all the way back to its farthest backswing position. When you set your racket, you have a slight pause after a partial backswing, basically just far enough so your racket points straight to the side, approximately parallel to the net. Then, from there, when it’s time to start your letter C loop swing, you end up with the racket in continuous motion until you strike the ball. Remember that you will still end up with a similar backswing to what you are accustomed, it’s just that you pause at a different time in the swing.

    Here are three reasons why “Racket set” may be a better instructional guideline for tennis technique.
    You’ll move better—Setting your racket effectively turns your hips and shoulders in the direction you have to move, making running to the ball faster and more efficient.

    Timing is easy—The option to setting the racket in the partial backswing position as shown in photo 2 is to take the entire loop swing all at one time. Whereas timing the full swing to strike incoming balls of different speeds would be relatively difficult, timing solid contact after setting the racket in a partial backswing is easier.

    It works on volleys—Players who memorize the instruction “Racket back” often make the mistake of taking their racket fully back on their volleys as well as their groundstrokes. On the other hand, “Racket set” works on volleys as well as groundstrokes, in that the racket is presented to face the incoming ball, albeit the grip and, therefore, the racket angle may be different (slightly closed or perpendicular to the court on groundstrokes and slightly open on volleys).

    Want to master the modern, “powerized” game? Try “setting” your racket and pausing in this modified position rather than taking your racket all the way back and pausing, and then encountering an additional set of problems that could have easily been avoided.
     

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