Well it's official - The ATP should cancel Cincy Masters!

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by drake, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. drake

    drake Semi-Pro

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    Judging by the quality of play from this years Cincy Masters, the ATP players just cannot play in those conditions. High humidity, triple digit heat, it's impossible to have quality tennis. It's a torture chamber and it's the same every year. Whoever wins this tournament is the utimate grinder. I suggest the ATP find another location instead of this clambake.
     
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  2. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I doubt this will happen anytime soon, but it would be cool to move it somewhere else. Where would you move the tournament to?
     
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  3. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    what they should really do is insert a week between the Cinci tourny and the Canadian masters. having the 2 back to back doesn't make sense. a lot of guys pull out of cincy because they are too beat up from playing the week before in Toronto/Montreal
     
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  4. armand

    armand Banned

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    They should put it up more North, where the temp is more manageable(fans don't like the high temps either). So how about Anchorage or Yellow Knife? Maybe even Arctic Shelf Base 12?
     
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  5. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    Iqualuit, although it's getting warmer up there too unfortunately.
     
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  6. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I was thinking keep pushing it north, maybe like close to the north pole. :p
     
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  7. Rafa freak

    Rafa freak Semi-Pro

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  8. callitout

    callitout Professional

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    Its a great tournament. yeah its brutal. But its 3 sets and its not as hot as Australia. Plus its right next to a water park.
    I go to that and USO every year. And although there is no comparison in terms of prize money or the significance, its in many ways more fan friendly with much more immediate access to the players. Generally the players were not unhappy to be there. Of course there are hot days, but tennis has a huge fitness component.
     
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  9. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    If they players are going to go to NY, Cincy is a great opportunity to get used to the conditions. DC helps as well. The entire Northeast is like this in August, and I don't think they are going to move the Open anytime soon.

    Though, I am in total amazement that these players can play in these conditions...it is a great testament to what great shape they are in.
     
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  10. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    How about Chicago? That wouldn't be so bad, although it's still pretty hot around here.
     
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  11. WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis

    WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis Hall of Fame

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    Deadhorse would be perfect, don't you just love the midnight sun.
     
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  12. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    What a bunch of wussies.

    College football is going thru 2-a-days and these ATP pros cannot manage 2 or 3 sets of good tennis.
    My son (17) had a 90 minute workout and then played a set today and its hotter here than in Cincy.

    This is why tennis is still regarded as an elitist sport.
     
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  13. BigboyDan

    BigboyDan Semi-Pro

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    The Cincy has a long tournament tradition, ain't going anywhere.
     
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  14. WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis

    WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis Hall of Fame

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    Because it is for the elite? But joking aside....

    I don't know where it should move as some suggest, and I was kidding about, but there is also no reason why it shouldn't remain in Cinncinati, just the timing for it is bad, immediately after Montreal! So even if top ones win or go deep at Montreal, its more difficult to recover to play well at Cincy. But true, as is mentioned about football, those guys have on a lot more gear, and personal body mass for the most part, and they take the heat and workouts at this time of year in similar locations.
     
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  15. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Banned

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    I strongly disagree with your comparative analogy. Most of the football players you are referring to could not endure the rigors of a competitive tennis match from start to finish, much less under those conditions.
     
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  16. Purostaff

    Purostaff Banned

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    +1 pure ice surface!! with polar bears n' stuffz!!1one :D
     
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  17. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Yeah dude that would be awesome! :)
     
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  18. tennis_hand

    tennis_hand Hall of Fame

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    I think they should reschedule it to have a week of break after Montreal masters.

    They still have back-to-back masters. that is stupid.

    and the Slams as well, they should be scheduled more evenly throughout the year.

    But all of these are old topics. nothing new.
     
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  19. saram

    saram Legend

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    The players are in top condition. They play in Australia with similar temps if not higher. Has nothing to do with the heat. Safin and Roger went five demanding sets with the highest quality of tennis in 05 at the AO with similar temps.

    It's not due entirely to the heat--but their lack of focus and how a player handles and prepares for the conditions.
     
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  20. saram

    saram Legend

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    The players are not wussies--this thread is based on the OP's opinion--not a bunch of whining players. Tell the OP he's a wussie--not those that won today.
     
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  21. Forehand Forever

    Forehand Forever Professional

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    New Jersey. Right near the USO and the conditions are pretty much the same.

    And because I live here.
     
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  22. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Well said. I don't think that the OP was entirely serious witht this thread. I just wanted to hear where else would people like to see a TMS tournament. I think that a week in between the Rogers Cup and the Cincy would be very good.
     
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  23. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    I'm choosing to leave your son out of this (everyone's kid practices for longer in hotter weather and harder than federer and and and).

    If you play, you should at least be able to recognise that tennis is a brutal endurance sport at the high level? Why? Because it combines aerobic endurance with skill and a power/sprinting requirement, and let's not forget it is a full-body sport as well, requiring agility, endurance and power from the upper and lower body.

    Many sports require one or two of the above elements, few require all of them, and very few team sports are as impacting on the body as professional tennis.

    Maybe you haven't been to a pro tournament lately? I'm a tall male, reasonably fit and strong, I'm 31, and I hit the ball hard. Standing on the sidelines of the Sydney International practice courts this year for the first time in a couple of years, I was completely blown away by the levels pro tennis is reaching.... I remember watching Matthieu's forehand practice session - it was simply mind-blowing, and he was hitting them non-stop for 15-30 minutes in the heat, just to give one example. Pro tennis is a completely different game, and I have true respect for the athletic abilities of anyone playing it or trying to play it, especially those playing in a Master's tourney or GS in 40 degrees plus!
     
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  24. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    Fitness and "wussiness" has nothing to do with the effects of heat stroke on the body.

    It's easy for people here to advocate brain damage for players due to extreme heat, since such people aren't the ones who'll pay. Sharapova said she was hallucinating during the Australian Open, and that's an example of why extreme heat isn't acceptable.

    During this time of year, tennis should be played somewhere cooler, indoors, or on a cooler surface like grass. Cincinnati isn't going to be able to switch to grass because serious drought is plaguing southwestern Ohio again. Global warming seems to be the cause, because just a few years ago massive tree death happened due to drought. With rising temperatures, more drought and desertification happens, as well as more severe precipitation episodes.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2007
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  25. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    I suspect football players could endure the "rigors" of a tennis match much better than the tennis players could endure two practices a day in pads and helmets while getting pounded into the ground. The comparison is simply ludicrous.
     
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  26. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Did someone advocate brain damage? I must have missed it.

    Who was the last ATP player to suffer brain damage on the court-other than Sharipova? :grin:
     
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  27. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    This has to be one of the funniest posts I have ever read. I played varsity football all 4 years at high school. There is no way that a football player could stand the rigors of a tennis match. Especially in a match where it is between competitive tennis players, say 4.0 or above. After a few games of running side to side and up and down the football player would pass out. On what level do football players get pounded to the ground. Team practices aren't easy but they aren't exactly hard on the body. Games are, but not practices.
     
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  28. AndyRLacoste

    AndyRLacoste Rookie

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    Portland!!!
     
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  29. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    When people dismiss the seriousness of heat-related fatigue with comments about "wussiness" and the notion that people who are fit are immune to temperature, that mentality leads to the tolerance of worse outcomes than fatigue. It's difficult to realize one is having brain damage. It could seem like a headache, and players may continue to play.

    The bottom line is that there should be a heat policy that sets a maximum on-court temperature for pro matches.
     
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  30. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    I suspect people with Sharapova's somewhat minimal IQ hallucinate fairly regularly, you probably need to pick a better example ;)

    You see, sometimes the english language is ambiguous. I think by stating those last 5 words, you meant that the comparison was ludicrous from an "of course football players are 'fitter' perspective", whereas I read it as being a simply ludicrous comparison, in that comparing the relative fitness of a footballer and tennis player is like comparing one's favourite soft drink with one's favourite wine - it's an irrelevant and pointless comparison.
     
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  31. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Well, I did say many consider tennis an elitist sport-seems i was right.

    Wow.
     
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  32. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    I think there is, at least for the AUS Open.
     
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  33. superstition

    superstition Hall of Fame

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    I happen to believe her, and won't belittle her in order to dodge the problem. There are plenty of things Sharapova is guilty of, but I see no good reason for her to make up a story about the heat at the AO. She's not the only person who has discussed the terrible heat at the Australian Open. Navratilova said she didn't play there because of heat sometimes and said there should be a heat policy, or something along these lines. I saw the Capriati-Hingis final and it was clear that the heat, not Capriati, is what defeated Hingis. That's not good tennis ("see which one drops first").
     
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  34. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Thanks professor.
     
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  35. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Right back at you. Wow. Why are you on these forums when you consider that tennis players are pussies? Your posts on this thread have pointed that way. That is why I am questioning your motive here.
     
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  36. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Wow - such an eloquent reply.

    Ever considered replying to the points I made? I thought not.
     
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  37. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Well said.
     
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  38. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    If they were to relocate the cincy event, why not South America. There is a huge tennis following in countries such as Argentina, Chile, Columbia, and Venezuela. Our summer is their winter, so conditions would be ideal.
     
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  39. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    When you can't make an argument then question the motive?

    I played tennis today in 102 degree heat. I watched a senior league match also being played. I watch an ATP match on TV and the players act like its just too much for them to have to earn thousands of dollars if they are uncomfortable. One would guess they are "spoiled"

    I know those guys are fit but some,not all, seem to feel they are entitled to play in favorable conditions. They are wussies.
     
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  40. Aeropro master

    Aeropro master Professional

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    That makes a lot of sense than, moving cities. I play 4 hours + outside in cincy, and I'm perfectly fine. All the players are tired from all the tournaments and therfore don't play their best at cincy.
     
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  41. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Make a point and I'll reply.
     
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  42. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    And you made a good argument too. LOL! I think your an idiot, based on the rubbish you have wrote on here. So I am done here.
     
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  43. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    11 Components of Fitness - Tennis Vs. Football

    1.Body Composition - Tennis. It's almost impossible to be an elite tennis player and be significantly overweight, many pro footballers are quite overweight.
    2.Flexibility - Tennis. Tennis players are leaner, and by definition leaner people are more flexible to start with.
    3.Cardio-respiratory Endurance: Tennis - show me a football match that goes for 5 hours in summer and I'll hand this one to football instead.
    4.Muscular Endurance: Tennis - same as above.
    5.Muscular Strength: Football, no question.
    6.Power : Football

    7.Balance: Tennis - is often played at the extremes of balance.
    8.Coordination: Tennis (don't make me laugh)
    9.Speed: Football
    10.Reaction Time: Tennis (success is directly related to reaction time)
    11.Agility: Tennis.

    Game, set and match to tennis on the components of fitness, 8 elements to 3!
     
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  44. Chauvalito

    Chauvalito Hall of Fame

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    A lot of players played well today through the heat...

    Moya and Potro played 3 long sets...Roddick's match would have likely gone longer if he had won the third set.

    I am for keeping the varying conditions in tennis...

    If it was getting to the point that players could not play well, I am pretty sure they would say something ;)

    They dont need me, or anyone else on this board to advocate policies they are capable of dealing with themselves.

    Although it is interesting to debate.
     
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  45. Pusher

    Pusher Professional

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    Now that hurts.;)

    But really, you were done before you ever started.
     
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  46. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Three, I've made three posts of points now, one new one and two old ones, all discussing your posts. Many, many points contained in each one, and all you can do is wise-crack at me....
     
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  47. Chauvalito

    Chauvalito Hall of Fame

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    I am sure you know, but you might be wasting your breath (typing, whatever)
     
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  48. tennispro11

    tennispro11 Hall of Fame

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    Very well done again! Enjoy your posts very much. Please keep it up! :)
     
    #48
  49. volleyandfun

    volleyandfun Professional

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    There is such policy, I remember watching matches at Indian Wells and they monitored temperatures all the time referring to the heat index frequently. Not quite sure though how it works.

    Problem is that at Indian Wells humidity was low, and at Cincy humidity is much higher. I am not sure if they take that into a consideration, that something is called humidex factor.

    Instead of moving Cincy to a different place or different time, wouldn't it be easier to have Canadian Masters a week earlier? In such case players would have week off between both masters and USO.
     
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  50. OrangeOne

    OrangeOne Legend

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    Have a laugh, SS, I'm just poking fun at Masha and you know it. Seriously, I did think she was just playing terrible that day, but that's beside the point.

    I'll one up you here and say that I was in the stands for that final (Cap-Hingis), primarily....because I was :), I've never bought more drinks / ice-blocks at an event, ever. It was ridiculous. I also agree with your assessment, the heat defeated hingis that day.

    That said - since then, there has been (well, there is) and extreme heat policy at the open. It's not perfect, but it is a start....
     
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