western and semi western i got TRICKED

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dannyjjang, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    nonnodddddddddd
     
    #1
  2. JeffH1

    JeffH1 New User

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    63
    #2
  3. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    hmmm the semi western grip, do you grab it that low????or in the middle of the racquet
     
    #3
  4. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    #4
  5. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    ah confusing o.0
     
    #5
  6. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    Which part is confusing?

    I feel that the heel pad, located in the lower left quadrant of the right-hander's palm, should be used as a second reference point in addition to the base knuckle of the index finger. In a pure semi-western fh grip both reference points, the base knuckle and the heel pad, should be on bevel number 4.

    As far as how high up (toward the racquet head) or down (toward the butt cap) you should grip the handle goes, I would say that's a matter of personal preference. However, generally, gripping high affords more racquet head control if that's an issue for you but it provides less potential to use the elasticity of the wrist and forearm and which can result in less potential racquet head speed through contact. Not bad, just less.
     
    #6
  7. Noelle

    Noelle Hall Of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,771
    The position of the hand on the handle (whether it's choked up in the middle of the handle or gripping the end) is irrelevant to what kind of grip it is. :)

    Check the position of the first knuckle on your index/pointer finger; this is generally accepted as the guide to what kind of grip you are using.
     
    #7
  8. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    ...as far as grip pressure or how "tight" you should grip the handle, I'd suggest the mental imagery of holding a small bird or hamster firmly enough to control the animal but not so tight that you injure or kill it.
     
    #8
  9. TENNIS2

    TENNIS2 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Hi dannyjjang, don't be frustrated, just study the pictures and the explanation carefully and it will make sense to you. As far as where you should place your hand on the handle. You will find that as you advance, you will hold the racquet further and further toward the end, some even hold the the racquet butt in your palm. The pictures drawn with the hand a bit further up on the handle to clearly demonstrate the various grips. Good luck.
     
    #9
  10. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    Mmm

    I Wil Post Up The Picture In The Book I Use, The Tennis Guide Book, And I Will Post The Picture Of How I Grip When I Hit
     
    #10
  11. erik-the-red

    erik-the-red Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    680
    I think the base of the index finger makes most sense to me for determining grips.

    Note that some old books have different terminology. In a book covering Lendl's game, Lendl says he uses a semiwestern grip, but by modern standards, it is very eastern. In a book covering Becker's game, the author calls the modern continental grip the semi-continental grip. He calls the modern eastern backhand grip the extreme continental.

    Personally, I think Borg used a semi-western grip instead of extreme western. It looks more like Agassi's than Nadal's.
     
    #11
  12. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    3,260
    You're absolutely right. This is in fact one of the accepted axioms for many when defining/describing grips. However, I think it leads to the very confusion being discussed in this thread. Some will disagree but I subscribe to the notion that a second reference point in the heel of the palm (or as Marius refered to it in another thread, the hypotenary eminence) is needed to properly orient the racquet and racquet face to the palm and forearm.

    Off the top of my head, an extreme example is Sampras' bh grip (apparently Landsdorp's bh grip as I've seen him demonstrate bh's with the identical one). Sampras' bh grip if using the base knuckle of the index finger only reference point definition is pure eastern. However, because the heel of the hand is placed on bevel 8 it shifts the entire hand into an extreme eastern bh grip orientation to the racquet. The shift of the heel to bevel 8 results in more of a closed finger (hammer-like) grip with the supporting thumb closer to the head of the racquet. In fact the thumb in this Landsdorp 1 hander is closer to the racquet head than the index finger instead of the thumb being wrapped closer, or even touching the middle finger as does in a conventional spread fingered eastern bh grip. Shifting the heel from bevel 1 to bevel 8 also places the racquet shaft at very near a right angle and the racquet face perpendicular to the forearm w/o any wrist layback. To me this is an extreme eastern bh orientation with an eastern index finger base knuckle placement.

    Again to avoid confusion, I subscribe to the same descriptions that Bollettieri and some others who use the index finger base knuckle AND the heel of the hand as the two reference points needed to properly orient the entire hand and forearm to the racquet shaft and racquet face.
     
    #12
  13. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    how do u add pics?

    how do you add pics here i want to post my "grips" how i hold it
     
    #13
  14. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,223
    upload at www.imageshack.us and post link here
     
    #14
  15. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    #15
  16. nViATi

    nViATi Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,223
    #16
  17. Eman

    Eman New User

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    41
    Grip

    As mentioned we can't see your forefinger knuckle. However, based on everything esle, to me it looks either Eastern or Semi-western.
     
    #17
  18. eggnog

    eggnog New User

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    85
    Five-0, you are right on in advising the use of two reference points. if you use just the base knuckle of the index finger to determine grip you could still have the heel of your hand in different places, hammer grip versus spreading your fingers more for example. I personally never used the base knuckle method. I always used the heel (Mr. Jiang, the fleshy part of the palm, close to where you'd be hitting something with a karate chop) to determine what grip I'm using. I've needed to know how to measure this as I have switched back and forth between eastern and SW forehand over the years.
     
    #18
  19. armand

    armand Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,747
    Location:
    RDS001 90: SPPP 1.18 @ 63/61
    I always thought that Nadal uses a full western grip because of his extreme topspin nature and clay court mastery. However, it looks like he has a semi western forehand on film and also, hitting a reverse forehand(which Nadal usually does) with a full western grip seems kinda weird.

    Can anyone clarify?
     
    #19
  20. dannyjjang

    dannyjjang Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Messages:
    646
    oh this thread is when i just started tennis :)
     
    #20
  21. armand

    armand Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,747
    Location:
    RDS001 90: SPPP 1.18 @ 63/61
    [​IMG]This is the eastern forehand grip.

    [​IMG]This is the semi-western fh grip

    What if someones 'base knuckle' sits right on the turn of the bevel between a semiwestern and an eastern? Is there a name for this grip?
     
    #21
  22. Rep. Timothy Calhoun

    Rep. Timothy Calhoun Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    196
    If both the base knuckle AND the edge of the palm are positioned inbetween the eastern and semi-western locations, then you would call that either an "extreme eastern" OR a "mild semi-western".

    If the base knuckle is positioned inbetween the eastern and semi-western locations, BUT the edge of the palm is positioned ON the semi-western postion (or vice versa), then you would refer to that as an "eastern-semi-western hybrid grip".

    Capiche?
     
    #22
  23. armand

    armand Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,747
    Location:
    RDS001 90: SPPP 1.18 @ 63/61
    Oh, well thank you very much, Rep. Timothy Calhoun. That's fantastic information. You seem to know everything! I wonder what else you may know because the depth of your knowledge seems bottomless.

    Sorry if that seemed sarcastic, it wasn't really meant to be.:mrgreen:

    Seriously, the explanation seems simple enough and I thank you for that. But the palm is kinda fatty and covers all said so I guess I would just have use the best guess.
     
    #23
  24. TennisAsAlways

    TennisAsAlways Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,174
    Nice explanation Rep. Timothy. That seems accurate to me.

    FiveO seemed to have described the "palm edge" portion very well. Check out the first page of this thread, with the posts that were written several months ago. He explained that if you're a right-hander, the area of the edge of the palm or fleshy part of the palm that is to be used as a reference point is located on the lower left quandrant of the hand.

    Yes I know that the fleshy part is not a single point, but, when you grip the handle of a racquet, there is a small portion of the edge of the palm that bulges out, and that is to be used as the reference in correspondence with the base index of the index finger.

    Good day now. 8)
     
    #24
  25. Rep. Timothy Calhoun

    Rep. Timothy Calhoun Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    196
    He just explained it ^^^.
     
    #25
  26. armand

    armand Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,747
    Location:
    RDS001 90: SPPP 1.18 @ 63/61
    Thanks for the explanation dudes.

    Question: Why not use the crease in the palm as a reference point? Seems like it would be more precise as the crease occurs where the thumb muscle ends so it would be the same for everyone.
     
    #26

Share This Page