Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by 10sdude85, Feb 18, 2009.
Thanks for the pictures man!
Hi Fabfed, most people here still greatly appreciate what you have done, and could only hope they are in your shoes. Please ignore those few negative posters.
Yeah Fabfed, you do not need to bring the racket to any racket shop. You can easily do this:
1. compare the weight. hold the Federer racket and the stock K90, you can roughly tell which one is heavier/lighter.
2. measure the balance: place the racket along the edge of a table. with the racket lying on the table, and vertical to the table edge. Move the racket the handle slowly moving out of the table (while the racket string bed is still in the table). Move slowly until you find the balance point. Now you could just tell us the distance, from the balance point to the end of the handle. (in the precision of 1/8 inch, or 0.1 cm).
please fabfed, can you post more pics of the handle of roger's racquet? specially the buttcap. BTW thanks very much for showing us fed's racquet.
come back fabfed
fabfed, don't listen to any of these guys. we all appreciate what u have done. Keep posting dude.
That method works for balance? And balance is measured from the buttcap?
We would of appreciated your effort to weigh the racquet, if anything to prove Federer doesn't need to add an enormous amount of lead to be great. A lot of posters in TW seem to think that is the solution to their game instead of working on technique.
Thanks for showing us Feds lead-free racquet most of us really do appreciate it !
Im guessing tension is 21kg and it was strung on a friday then Nice work
Looks like FabFed's retail stick is a Asian K90, as evident by the USL3 grip sticker. My Asian K90 with grip 4 1/2 states USL4.
I like the location of the cross tieoff at 9H and not on a main (like 5H).
Which one is the starting knot for the crosses ?
Do you see the tieoff knot at 9H hole on the left side? Typically the tieoff hole for the N/K90 is at 5H (you can see the enlarged grommet at 5H in the same photo). 5H ties off on a main string. RonYu tied-off on 9H, which is on a cross which will put no stress on the 5th main string... obviously. I've had several gut mains break right at the tieoff hole 5H from the cross knot on my PS85. Now, I tieoff on 11H (third cross).
Ron's most likely using a starting clamp to start the crosses and tiesoff after few crosses are tensioned. This is how I do it.
I'm sorry, but what are those "power pad" things? I'm afraid I know next to nothing about stringing racquets. Is there an advantage to using those things? Can I put them on my K90?
Power Pads do very little, if anything, in the way of dampening vibration--that is not their purpose. They are used where the strings (usually gut) go through the frame at acute angles, like at the throat, which can put stress on gut strings. Power Pads are used so the string goes in and out of the frame at less of a severe angle. Power Pads used to be very common but now that fewer players are using gut and most racquets these days have gromments at the throat that are somewhat rounded anyway there is little need for them. There was a time I used them in all my racquets (never did I feel they dampened vibration) but now I never do--even when I use gut. I remember when Yonex first introduced their isometric graphite racquets many tour players put the pads at both the top and bottom of the frame where the strings came in and out of the frame at almost right angles. They can be used on any racquet but unless you are using gut on the mains they would be little more than an affectation. And despite the name Power Pads give no additional power.
i recall reading somewhere that this method is always used on Federer's frames, and i've noticed better tension retension (albeit, slightly) on the top cross when using it.
I don't know you might say that it is a little illusion but looks like Fed's racket head width is larger than the stock one. My previous picture analysis of his racket's from close-up shows that his racket is more round than the stock. Of course I cannot prove it 100% from the pics. The reason might be that he was mishitting a lot. Make it wider rather than longer head size and same width size as stock would have reduced those incidents happened with his N88 I assume he was mishitting the balls mainly due to the smaller head width rather than having shorter head lenght. Maybe his racket head lenght is shorter than stock and a wider size equalized the 90 sq. We don't know. Of course we cannot exactly tell from the pics. If the racket head lenght is the same and it is little wider then it is definately 92-93 sq rather than 90 sq. If FabFed can put the tip of the rackets on top of each other and tell us the lenght and width difference that might explains it once in for all. I assume that his racket width might be 2-3mm wider in both sides. We have to check it to make sure. But my personal feeling is that his racket is little larger than 90 sq overall and that has been said it has a wider racket head than the stock version. And my second gues is his racket head lenght is little shorter and still has a wider head size making it 90 sq. total head area with more round look than ellipse as in stock version. Thanks again FabFed.
yes, it's the angle the picture was taken.
@febfed: Thank you so much for posting the pics
and nice Ak90
u in asia?
Good catch. I've been stringing my KPS88 with this same pattern of tying off on the crosses at 9H. Unlike Fed's frame though, I'm doing it on a one piece string job (a sort of 3 box pattern).
This type of stringing is rarely seen on recreational players frames. (tying off on crosses, rather than mains.)
Anyway, fabFed, thanks for sharing the photos. Great stuff.
I don't think FabFed should do anything with the frame. Just put it in a air-tight case and hang it on his wall. It'll be worth thousands in a few years' time. Why does anyone want to know the frame weight or swingweight? Not that big of a deal, considering nobody on here has the exact same preferences as Fed and should be more concerned about what they use instead of someone else's setup. The flex, and gripsize as well. Completely useless information to anyone not having ties to Fed in a strictly business sense (Ron Yu and the rest of the P1 Team). Fed's frame is a custom one, and chances are nobody will ever put out that kind of frame on the market for 2.5s and 3.0s to use while claiming that they're the next Federer. Not the end of the world if FabFed never does anything with the frame, it's a piece of history.
And whoever said that he should take it out for a few hits:
Would you go and have batting practice with a ball signed by Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig or any of those guys? No, you'd keep the ball, and treat it like a god so it can help fund your retirement.
Hitting with the frame does nothing but decrease it's worth. The handle has an autograph on it, suppose it he smudged the writing up a little? There goes half it's worth. Would you play with something that could pay for your entire retirement? What about if playing with it meant that the thing significantly decreased in value? I don't think so.
I agree that Fabfed should not do much to his racket. However weigh it on a postal scale, or find the balance point from a table, is something that does absolutely 0 damage to the racket. And is something that I will do if I were in his shoes.
Fabfed--I would advise you to do one thing...
See if there is a way that Ron will certify/authenticate this racket for you. Some sort of written material from Ron stating that your racket IS in fact one that he strung for Roger may in fact increase its value in time as well as negate any 'doubter's out there.
Just a thought and I'm sure Ron would be willing to oblige you as he already stated he did string that particular racket.
Again--just a thought.
^^Some great posts.
Just to add,,,,, one last thing you should do is send it to me so I could playtest it.
Seriously, though, saram's idea is a very, VERY good one. defnitely see if you could get something from him.
Agreed. Maybe P1 could send you a certificate of authenticity or something like that you could put in the frame along with the racquet. I'm sure Ron or Nate would be more than happy to take care of that.
No, my idea was better no darn........
great pics fabfed
As a fan of Federer, I appreciate that the pictures of his racquet were posted.
But folks are getting carried away on what they can get out of knowing about how his racquet is tuned.
None of us has his exact size, musculature, and reflexes or hits our shots with the same mechanics. Therefore, not even his twin, if he had one, should use Roger's racquet tuned exactly the way he had it prepared on the last day that Roger had this particular racquet in his possession.
The takehome message should be that each of us should experiment with a little lead tape and different string tensions to tune our racquets for our own game. And we should change all of these depending on the court surface, our opponent, and how tired/strong our arm feels. Just like Roger changes his racquet/string specifications for each tournament, and even day to day.
Ok guys, here are the new photos of Roger's stick as promised, hope they are useful....
My retail sticks weighed with strings & unstrung...
last batch of close-ups of Roger's stick...
..unfortunately color of the grip is seeping onto the white overgrip, will need to store the racquet better....
very professional weighting , so many k90s,yours are ak90?? it seems federer's racket is only 20 g heavier than mine.
Hey no worries...yep, mine are all AK90s, some would have figured by now I'm from Asia
Thank you so much Fabfed, love u!!!
Was wondering do u know the balance of fed racket??
Thanks, Fabfed, for weighing the rackets. That is helpful!
So Federers racquet weighs more than a stock K90? And it's probably shorter from restringing it a massive amount of times.
A couple of things to note here:
Look at Federer's racket compared to the AK90 displayed. Pay attention to the string job. Notice anything? the crosses strung in Federer's racket are perfectly straight as compared to the AK90 which are bowed. If you are a stringer, this is the type of work which separates the great ones from the rest of us.
Federer's racket weighs 365 grams which is not as espoused by a more bombastic member of the boards lighter than the retail frame. It is heavier by 11 grams. That is a 3% tolerance from the listed TW specs. A used overwrap could account for this weight difference. So, one could factually assume from this sample that Federer's specs are if not retail, within 3% of retail.
I wouldn't think Federer's frames are strung that much. I would guesstimate that he uses a frame for no longer than a month and then it's put out to pasture...given to a charity to auction, or given to a fan. From what I understand, Federer's string jobs cost more than the $'s to manufacture his frame.
For sure, even if they were, they wouldn't get shorter. I have a C10 that's been strung probably 100+ times and it is still 27" long.
Thanks a ton, Fabfed. This lays to rest quite a few fables. Federer plays with a racket which might as well be retail spec. His layup may be totally different, but the physical parameters of his frame are retail. Federer plays with a low tension. Federer plays with a 90 square inch frame and didn't change at the 2009 Australian as opined by some.
Thanks for the pics man! Now that we have a lot of info, could anyone for sure confirm what racquet it actually is? If not then what does it resemble mostly?
Told all you suckers Greg Ravens rackets were not acurate.
365 g = 12.8749 oz (not 12.5oz)
Now we need to see the measured length and SW
Was wondering what does that 38 (written by markerpen) mean on the balance bit of federer's racket?
What are the white square things on the strings and what is the purpose?
2 words: STRING SAVERS! Self-explanatory from there on!
Fabfed, can you also please measure the internal head length (longest part) and width at PWS as well as the total racket length? Thanks.
I measured the followings from my K90 strung at 58M/57C:
- Racket total length: 26.9889 in = 685 mm.
- Head length (inside): 9.06199 in = 230 mm.
- Head width at PWS (inside): 12.2928 in. = 312 mm.
Please post your K90 specs as well with or without strung!!!
So basically as far as the weight goes his racquet is the same as the retail version.
Take the 354 gr. the retail version weighs, add 5 grams overgrip, a few grams for the powerpads, stringsaver, and you are at 365.
It would not surprise me Federer actually plays with a racquet very close to the retail version. Maybe there are slight differences in balance, SW, lay up, but they won't be huge.
Its quite fascinating that Federer has no extra lead tape on his K90
I weight my K90 with two wilson over grip + rubber band + head tape covering the bumper guard at 370.8 gr. Almost 6 grams more than Fed's.
Why does Federer use a 4 3/8 grip? I thought he used a 4 5/8
I like you thought that Gregs rackets weren't customized to Fed's specifications, so this confirms that for me.
Thanks to Fabfed for taking the time to post more pics with racket weight details. I'm sure his effort is greatly appreciated by everyone here, it is by me.
In terms of the discussion regarding the dimensions of Feds racket, I believe that any differences observed from the photos provided can be attributed to optical illusion. I feel confident that Fed's stick comes from the same mold as the retail sticks. I guess this is easily distinguished in person and Fabfed will address this at some point. I still think that the balance specs will tell us a lot about about just how different Feds sticks are from retail. I hope we get that nugget of info at some point.
Nice AK90 collection Fabfed.
No, Federer's racquet weighs exactly the same as the retail K90. I've weighed many retail K90s and they were all around 365g strung with nylon syn gut and with an overgrip and a small "O" dampener. Don't forget that Federer's racquet is strung with a hybrid of Luxilon, which is heavier than syn gut, and it also has string savers and power pads which will also add a tad of weight.
Oh, and I think Federer's racquet only looks shorter in the pic due to the angle the pic was taken. They are likely the same length. Either that or it's just poor Wilson QC once again.
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