What are Federer's racquet specs(grip, weight, tension)?

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by 10sdude85, Feb 18, 2009.

  1. Tofi

    Tofi Professional

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    hi pro tour or fabfed or who ever posted the pics up. i wanna know is the racket the same head size as the retail one or not? in the pictures you posted the one fed uses looks a little bigger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2009
  2. Hrandyrko

    Hrandyrko Rookie

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    What difference would it make on the racket if he played with it or not? A dirty handle and scratched up frame?
     
  3. acm

    acm Rookie

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    Does he has any lead tape in the top of the head or handle? Thank you
     
  4. Holdfast44ID

    Holdfast44ID Rookie

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    Looks like he keeps original leather grip on racquet

    One of the OP's pics shows the color of the leather grip slightly bleeding into the white overgrip. Guess Fed likes the feel of having the stiffer leather under the overgrip. Personally, I replace the leather grip & go with the softer Wilson TrueGrip and no overgrip. That leather grip is tough on the hand, even with an overgrip on it.
     
  5. Big Boris

    Big Boris Rookie

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    So conclusion is he puts in some 4 grams more in the handle - when playing on clay, moving the balance some 3 mm down? Seems logical if so. Same SW not to disturb the swing but some more power from the parallel (not angular) movement of the racquet in the groundies - on clay that is.
     
  6. Big Boris

    Big Boris Rookie

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    Another thing - wasn't it something about the pws being a little bigger/broader on Roger's frames. Would that amount to some grams at 3 and 9, or am I mixing things up?
     
  7. corners

    corners Legend

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    No, he puts lead in the head on clay, moving the balance up. Go back and read the thread. Also, ArtArt just reported from Wimbledon that Roger's strung racquets came out at 32.0 cm balance and 353 swingweight (one or two pages back), which means that he's adding weight in head on grass as well (about 4 grams under the bumper). We do know that Priority One added weight in the head (under bumper) on hardcourts at Indian Wells as well, but not how much. I posted previously that an old German magazine said he played his frames stock on grass (31.5cm) added a little on hard courts and more on clay (32.0cm) back in 2003.

    It looks like he may have changed that up since he's adding lead on grass and hardcourts this year. As far as I know no one got hold of his frames at Roland Garros, so we don't know if he added more or less lead than at Wimbledon, but since he used to add more on clay we can assume, I suppose, that he did this year as well. Which means he may be playing with a higher swingweight and longer balance on all surfaces than he did 3 or 4 years ago.
     
  8. Big Boris

    Big Boris Rookie

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    Until someone has measurements proving the opposite I believe the delta lead, or other weight, goes in the handle. Look above at ARTs answer where he says explicitly "No" and then 367 or 363 (that's going downwards) with balance from 31,6 to 31,9 (that's going upwards). That would then mean either 367 g / 31,6 cm or/to 363 g 31,9 cm (removing lead from the handle). This in its turn makes 362 g / 32 cm on grass very probable (removing yet a g from the handle). The slower and more high bouncing surfaces the more lead in the handle to be able to get the plow through and put pace and direction on slower high balls. Putting the diff of 4 grams in at 12 in the head would change the SW some 12 points. SW you don't want to change back and forth that much because it influences timing too much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  9. corners

    corners Legend

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    I see what you're saying - he could change the balance by adding weight to the butt. Yeah, that's possible. But consider that Greg Raven has one of his frames from the Wilson Pro Room: 31.5cm, 338SW. Priority One recently did an interview with TW, at Indian Wells, where they said the "snuck some lead under the bumper". Now ArtArt tells us his specs at Wimbledon were 32cm and 353SW. Obviously he had lead under the bumper on the grass this year. The math gets fuzzy because of different string setups on Raven's frame, power pads, etc., but it seems more likely to me that he adds weight under the bumper. In the post you quoted above, ArtArt say's he's not sure about where the lead goes.

    So then there are three options:

    1- He adds lead to the head, increasing swingweight and lengthening balance, depending on surface, etc.

    2- He has a fairly set swingweight for all surfaces and adds a little lead to the butt to shorten or lengthen the balance depending on surface, etc. Swingweight is altered hardly at all.

    3 - He adds a little lead under the bumper and/or a little lead in the butt depending on surface, etc. Problem with this one is that the weight would be higher than ArtArt lists if he were adding grams to both head and butt.

    Who the hell knows.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  10. Nicr1991

    Nicr1991 New User

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    Its also interesting to me that it looks like Roger's racket is strung on what seems like a 2 piece box pattern. Im not sure if this is an accurate assumption but thats what it looks like to me. I also apologize if someone has already pointed it out i havent read through the entire thread yet. It also looks like the headsize on Roger's racket is slightly bigger than the other K90 but that could just be from the parallax error of where the picture was taken from
     
  11. acm

    acm Rookie

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    Can you show us where federer adds weight in his frame? thank you
     
  12. emerckx53

    emerckx53 Semi-Pro

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    Now you guys are all set...just get some K90's built to Fed's spec and you will be on the futures circuit by next week...seriously, you will...I mean it...I am not kidding...
     
  13. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    The sarcasm really isnt even amusing.. some people simply have an interest in his frame.. it doesnt mean they have this delusion its going to transform their game, or that they even want to use k90's, stock or otherwise
     
  14. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    This is very common at the pro level, as many prefer the fact that leather (or some synthetic leathers) better preserves the bevels of the grip. Softer "cushion style" grips create less defined bevels, and that's exacerbated once an overgrip is put on.
     
  15. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    It's worth noting that in order to achieve a consistent result, they may be adding slightly different amounts of lead under either/both the bumper or the handle for each racquet. Since every racquet coming off the line is slightly different, it will require slightly different additions to each one to get them to achieve the exact matched specs. Obviously Fed's frames come much more closely matched from the factory than the standard k90's, because Wilson's quality control is notoriously bad, but there is still a slight variation between frames, which is one of the reasons that people go to customizers. So a hard, fast rule, such as "he adds 4g to the head" will never always be accurate. Rather, once the desired specs are determined, the tech then adds slightly varying amounts of lead to various locations to match weight, balance and swingweight.
     
  16. ART ART

    ART ART Semi-Pro

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    According to some inside info, all rackets made "only" for TOP atp players, are made with zero tolerance, yes zero error in specs.
    So players only add the same amount of lead in the same place, for all rackets.

    The prodution line for atp players,is not the same that we can buy on the market, not even close.
    The materials used aren't the same either.

    So, this is like motor/cars sports, what you can buy in stores, aren't even close for what they use in competition.

    We can measure specs, weight, swingweight, balance point, but the "material" of those frames, is totaly different.

    This is for the top players, challenger players can't get those frames, only top players.

    If you get one racket from Fed or from Haas, Novack, ... , and go play with it, you will see how different that racket is...

    You have here a post from RYU, that if you can read it well... you will notice that he donesn't want that the guy that get a Fed racket, play with it... why? ... they all are in the business($$$), so regular guys shouldn't know the truth about pro's rackets.
    ... it's all about the $$$...

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  17. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    where does he get white string savers.
     
  18. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Hey Art...I appreciate the reply. However, I've personally been inside Wilson's Pro Room (as well as a few other companies'), and am very familiar with the inner workings of pro racquet customization. It's certainly true that many companies (including Wilson) provide special production for their pros with vastly different tolerances than are available to the general market. However, there's no such thing as "zero tolerance", even if they try to achieve that. It's a myth. The laws of physics simply prevent it. So even the most carefully managed production line has a little inherent variation. Even if weight, flex and various parameters exactly match, it would be like winning the lottery to have EVERY spec match off the line. As soon as you change one, you often change another. This is why, even in the pro rooms, they often make racquets slightly under spec (in terms of weight, SW, etc.), so they can tweak the last little bit to make everything match. Those final tweaks are done frame by frame, using after market materials, such as lead, etc. That's why I was saying that just adding a very specific amount of weight to the same place on all of someone's frames isn't a totally accurate way of representing how the frames are prepared. After all, if everything came of the line 100% to spec, you wouldn't need to do that, either.

    Also, while I'm addressing your post, it's worth knowing that while the tolerances, and also the variety of materials available, are far better than what we can buy in a store, the world of professional tennis racquets isn't really comparable to motor sports equipment. While professional riders/drivers are essentially using very different technology from what civilians use on the road, the tennis racquets of the pros employ the same exact technologies (in fact they usually use older models on which to base their layups) that standard production racquets use. The idea of the pros having special, "souped up" or "high tech" racquets isn't accurate. The pros racquets are notable for their fine tolerances, and their ability to match one frame to dozens of others, but not for using different materials or techniques than regular racquets. So aside from weight, flex and balance, the pros racquets are actually VERY similar to what you can buy in stores, or, more accurately, to what you could buy in stores at some point in the last 20 years. For what it's worth, it's the differences in flex (often lower), weight and balance that make Novak's racquet feel different from the types of frames you can buy in a store. And Fed's is VERY, VERY close to a stock frame.

    So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm pretty sure you have it backwards when you said: <<We can measure specs, weight, swingweight, balance point, but the "material" of those frames, is totaly (sic) different.>>

    It's actually the specs (e.g. weight, SW, balance, and RA/flex pattern) that are quite different from ours, while the "material" is for all practical purposes exactly the same as consumer technologies, and older ones at that.

    Hope this helps you separate the truths from the conspiracy theories in pro racquet production.
     
  19. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    I got a bit of a laugh when I read this part of ArtArt's posting. I really don't mind if the guy hits with Roger's racquet because it doesn't concern me in the slightest. ArtArt is correct in saying that the reason he shouldn't hit is is the $$$. Right now, that racquet is worth a bit of money, but if he hits with it, and damages it or the autograph, the value with drop significantly.

    As for what that racquet will feel like if he does hit it? It will feel like we all expect it to. Its a racquet with not a lot of power, and one with a pretty small sweet spot. Granted, when you do hit it in the sweet spot, it will feel amazing. Unfortunately for me, I usually only can hit the sweet spot about 1 out of 10 times!
     
  20. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    So Ron, it sounds like in essence what you're saying is that Federer's racquet will feel just like a stock retail K90 with some lead tape added to the hoop, correct? :)
     
  21. ericsson

    ericsson Hall of Fame

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    This is very true, good post!
     
  22. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    I'm not sure if it will feel just like a stock retail K90 because I've never hit with one.
     
  23. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Hi, Ron. Could you shoot me a quick email? I wanted to ask you a question related to the babolat star 4. drakulie@aol.com

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009
  24. jackcrawford

    jackcrawford Professional

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    Yes, but it destroys the illusion that we would all be 7.0 players if we could just get that special pro room frame with the custom unobtainium layup!
     
  25. vsbabolat

    vsbabolat Legend

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    Hey drakulie, Rajeev Ram just won the Newport event today with his trusty K6-1 Tour 90.
     
  26. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    OK, thanks Ron.

    Funny how just about everyone on this board has hit with a stock retail K90 but not with Federer's actual racquet, but you're the only one here who has only hit with Federer's actual racquet but not with a stock retail K90. How ironic. ;) LOL

    Can someone here send Ron a stock retail K90 so that we end this debate once and for all? :)
     
  27. CHOcobo

    CHOcobo Professional

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    player > racket. thread end.
     
  28. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    I have to say that my whole world is shattered. ;)

    You wonder how Federer, when he was in the juniors, got that unobtainium layup. It's a chicken/egg conversation, isn't it?


    Yes, another egomaniac with his "I'm better than you are" mid... ;)

    Ram acquitted himself really well...especially with a frame not suited to the modern game.
     
  29. schap02

    schap02 Semi-Pro

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    Ok dumb question here - no one yell at me - obviously the difference btw 1 and 2 pieces is 2 or 4 knots but HOW can you tell he prefers the box pattern? Just a simple question
     
  30. RJYU

    RJYU Rookie

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    Well, I'm probably just as dumb as you because I'm not even sure how to string a "2 piece box pattern" when all the mains are one type of string, and all the crosses are of another type. I mean, how can you "box" this type setup?

    Could someone please enlighten me? FYI, I'm a somewhat experienced stringer.
     
  31. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Ha ha ha....That's got to be the understatement of the year!

    I don't think Roger Federer would allow you to string all of his racquets for all his matches if you weren't "a somewhat experienced stringer." ;) LOL
     
  32. Rabbit

    Rabbit G.O.A.T.

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    LMFAO......

    Obviously RJYU, you have not strung "around the world".....or wait...maybe you have!
     
  33. Petros Biris

    Petros Biris New User

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    They are the same!

     
  34. jimbo333

    jimbo333 Hall of Fame

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    This is a really interesting post, I missed this before as it's an old thread which I was reading through while doing research on Federer's 2003 racket. This is because my friend's 2009 Federer K90 has the following specs:-

    Weight: 367g (including everything and has 3g lead under the bumper at 12 o'clock)
    Balance: 32.2cm
    Swingweight: 350

    [​IMG]

    And are these yours knots RJYU? LOL:)

    [​IMG]


    I'm sure if some of the lead was moved from somewhere in the grip on Art Arts racket quoted above, to the head at 12 o'clock on my friends racket, then the balance change would make sense. And there must be a way to do this keeping the Swingweight about the same as well I'd have thought. Very interesting!

    Also I've realised that's the first time I've seen an RDC reading done on one of Federer's rackets, and it's 68 it seems!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  35. Starbuckingham

    Starbuckingham Banned

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    Without racquet, player is nothing. We can not play tennis without racquet.

    Racquet does matter.

    I started playing with an expensive, super light racquet and my shots were weak, shorts and not so responsive.

    Years of playing and researching brought me to my final racquet setup, which is the right one for me. My shots are powerful, accurate and so responsive. I use a heavy racquet and looser string tension.

    What surprises me is, that my current racquet setup is relatively close to some ATP pro players racquet setup. I believe that recreational players should use pro racquet setup. Don't play with light racquets and high string tension. Heavy racquet and lower string tension is better, for your health and for your game and for your longevity in tennis.

    This is my racquet setup:

    weight: 402 gr (including added weight at 12 oclock and on the handle)
    balance point: 31 cm
    swingweight: 370


    Some pro players racquet setup:

    Soderling/Hewitt/Sampras

    weight: 357 gr / 377 gr / 384 gr
    balance: 33.75 cm / 31.75 cm / 32.1 cm
    swingweight: 384 / 372 / 367


    I strongly suggest for amateur players to play around with racquet customization and find the right setup for you.

    I am very happy with my current racquet setup and I must say I enjoy my game more, get plenty of cheap points on my serve, hit with more depth and authority and confidence, hit with plenty of feel and comfort.

    Technique and coaching is something else we need, but still, racquet setup is also very very very important.
     

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