What do you guys do on pulling main below the frame?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by BlxTennis, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. BlxTennis

    BlxTennis Rookie

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    I have a question on how do you guys deal with pulling tension on main that the string goes below the frame like the 3rd main which indicated below with a redline? Seems like that puts stress on the string itself especially for gut. Seems like the only stringer tackles this problem is the stringway concorde system?
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
    #1
  2. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    I'm having trouble with what you are saying, so I am not really sure what you mean.
     
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  3. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Are you talking about going over or under the throat? I always go under with my Stringway. If I go over, I could potentially damage the paint of the stick (my own or clients') and I don't feel that I am getting all the tension to the string.
     
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  4. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    actually it depends on the machine. i always go under because its more level with the gripper
     
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  5. BlxTennis

    BlxTennis Rookie

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    Can you actually have the string going over the throat or the frame? I have never seen the gripper above the racquet frame. So by going over the frame, the string is actually being pull down resting on the frame when tensioned. Isn't it? Well, my string is below the frame when pulling that particular string gripping by the gripper. I can see that string come in contact with the frame when being tensioned. No one else seen this with your crank stringing machine?
     
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  6. struggle

    struggle Hall of Fame

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    under. not alot of options. i don't sweat it.

    edit: ^^^ yes, the string contacts the SLICK frame. again, i don't sweat it.
    certainly there is more friction at other points in the entire process.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2012
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  7. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    In this video: http://youtu.be/HARPkXL6UyA?t=4m46s He goes over the throat.
     
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  8. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Hmm, looks like someone hotlinked an image which is not theirs? :)
     
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  9. Lakers4Life

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
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  10. seekay

    seekay Semi-Pro

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    I believe that Irvin uses a Wise 2086 tension head with the Gamma adapter (same as I use). It brings the top of the diabolo and the string gripper level with the grommets, which is different from most other machines (which drop the tension head to allow 360 degree rotation).

    In that configuration, the string's path is essentially the same whether it goes over or under the frame. Over is usually more convenient for the stringer.
     
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  11. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    ^^^ Indeed, my sister has that machine minus the crank.
     
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  12. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Must resist obvious crank joke...
     
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  13. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    And what is the bad technique?

    if you have a diablo you should not need the adapter.
     
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  14. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    You make a good point on how to set the anchor clamp and the starting clamp outside the hoop to back it up just in case it slips. The bad technique is when you move the anchor clamp to the head beside the other side main. What you should have done was continue to finish the 2nd main first then proceed to the other side (anchor side). That's how the USRSA demonstrates it, in Racquet Service Techniques, page 29. Though I understand you were demonstrating how to start mains, but it demonstrated flaws that should not be encouraged.

    What was the point of having an anchor if you move it the main next to the clamped main? It does not make sense. (wasted movement)

    I don't want to derail this topic any more than I have to. I just wanted to point out that everything you post on YouTube is not Stringer's Gospel.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
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  15. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    wow! good eye. definitely not stringer's gospel. YuLite is a much better source on everything stringing. too bad he's left us.
     
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  16. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    So you're not pulling tension against a single machine clamp.
     
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  17. Lakers4Life

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    You missing the point, Irvin. You have an anchor clamp. Then you pull tension on the other side and clamp at the head. Then you pull tension on the anchor main, to release the starting clamp, and move the anchor clamp next to the previously clamped main in a staggered position. WHY?
    There is no need to remove the starting clamp. You could have removed the starting clamp when you start the other (anchor) side.

    Seriously think about what you are doing, before trying hard to show people!
     
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  18. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    i just looked-82 videos! someones been busy haha
     
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  19. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Even Mike (YULitle) did not have that many videos.
     
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  20. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    quality over quantity baby!
     
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  21. nacolo

    nacolo New User

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    Pls stop making fun of the old man...
     
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  22. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I beg your pardon, I resemble that remark. LOL
     
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  23. fortun8son

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    The Neos 1000 tensioner sits high ( no 360 rotation), so pulling over the throat is quite common.
    A business card placed between the string and frame will prevent marring of the finish, but it's a PITA and not necessary for the most part unless you use rough strings at high tension.
    You'll get more marks just bumping around in the bag. :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
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  24. David 110

    David 110 New User

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    Pulling Two Main Strings

    BlxTennis, this youtube link shows a method to pull two main strings at the same time which avoids pulling strings over the frame on the throat end. It also results in more consistent tension (avoids the friction loss of pulling tension over the frame) and also eliminates the crank arm interference with the racquet handle.

    This link has been posted several times, but I don't think anyone has tried it. Not sure why because the technique works good with crank machines.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHaUrtUqS_M
     
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  25. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    What the person in the video does not explain is the technique he uses to hold tension on the crank and re-tension again without a string clamp on the string. If you don't do it properly, you just lost tension and have to start over.
     
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  26. BlxTennis

    BlxTennis Rookie

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    Thanks. This is interesting. I never thought of pulling 2 string at once but this may be something to consider just for the strings at the throat.
     
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  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    If you do that you will have a higher tension on the string that is being pulled and lower tension of the other because of grommet friction. Pull only one string at a time.
     
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  28. David 110

    David 110 New User

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    Irvin, thanks for the response. Did you see that the video shows pulling on the tighter string to equalize tension on the lower tension string? The crank is then re-tensioned on the same two strings and the tighter string is then pulled to again equalize tension. After two or three of these pulls, the two string tensions will be very close to equal. The tension will be equal when the two strings sound about the same when plucking them like a guitar. Then clamp and move on to the next two strings.

    I know this process sounds a little goofy, but it really does work to equalize tension on the center mains. It is easy to prove or disprove by stringing all of the center mains the old way (pulling over the frame) and then using the guitar plucking step and using sound to determine how equal the tension might be. You will find that the strings pulled over the frame (throat end) will be lower tension (friction loss) than the strings pulled at the racquet top (straight out of the grommet hole).

    Then string the center mains using the new method and see how equal the strings tension sounds. If done properly, tension will be much more equal due to no friction loss over the frame and less clamping steps (minimizes pull back tension loss.)

    Stringing time is about the same due to less clamping steps and the racquet does not have to be turned from top to throat end and back again. Also, no more interference with the crank arm hitting the racquet handle.

    The mains outside the throat area are pulled one string at a time since these strings do not pass over the racquet throat.

    Thanks for listening. Hope some of you stringers try it.
     
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  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    David sounds good but sorry to say I am not believing a word of it. Let's talk about the pulling the string over or under the frame. If your gripper is below the stringbed go under, if it is above go over, and if they are on the same level it does not matter.
     
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  30. Rjtennis

    Rjtennis Hall of Fame

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    You do great job with your videos and have helped a ton of people out!
     
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  31. BlxTennis

    BlxTennis Rookie

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    I agree. I learned a great deal from Irvin's videos.
     
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  32. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    Moving the anchor main to previously clamped main into staggered position is the way I do it. Depending on the string, it may stretch too much to pull tension over two main lengths. (Crank machine.)
     
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  33. Lakers4Life

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    It does not matter what machine you use, CP, DW or Crank. It's still a wasted movement. The point is you now have two clamps hold both sides of the first main away from the center. This is something one would expect with floating clamps, but with fixed clamps, it's not the same.
     
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  34. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Let me ask a silly question how would you tension the first left main in that video?
     
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  35. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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  36. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I though so wasted movement. Except for using a starting clamp he did exactly what I did.
     
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  37. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Irvin, I think you should patent that thing you do with the piece of string to accelerate weaving the crosses. Its actually fun to do, kinda like a magic trick.
     
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  38. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Bump still there?
     
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  39. tennis_ocd

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    Exact same method Irvin uses?! (The starting clamp simply keeps the first fixed clamp from dropping until machine tensioned.) All but poly likely stretches too much to pull two full main lengths.
     
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  40. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Not quite the same as what I did. This guy clamps 1LM as the anchor string then tensioned 1RM rotated the racket 180 tensioned 2RM rotated the racket and tensioned 1LM (I quit watching st that point.) According to what Laker4Life is saying he thinks it is more efficient movement to rotate the racket 180 before tensioning every string. I rather rotate the racket once for each two like numbered main strings.

    Not saying either way is better than another. Some people tension 3 mains then 6 on the other side and finish the mains never getting more than 3 strings ahead on either side. Which by the way is the maximum # the USRSA says to go. Many times I like to get no more than one ahead. It's all preference.
     
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  41. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Your both fixated on the first two pulls. It's the continuation that is the point. In Irvin's video he first two clamps are correct, but moving the anchor clamp, before doing the second main on the other side (non anchor side) is the wasted movement. It's probably an old habit for you guys or something. I really don't care if I have to spin the frame 180 degrees, you do it all the time stringing. How do tension the whole racket if you don't spin it at least a 180 degrees?
     
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  42. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Why is it wasted movement?
     
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  43. Lakers4Life

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    Forget it, you're too far set in your ways to figure it out.
     
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  44. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
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  45. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    LOL sure I am. I don't even use that method any more.
     
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  46. Lakers4Life

    Lakers4Life Hall of Fame

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    Then do us all a favor and yourself, and delete the video. Why keep it up if you don't do it any more?
     
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  47. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    The whole purpose of the video was how to start mains without a starting clamp. I use a starting clamp, but there are some who do not. Many of the videos I pu on YouTube were at the request of others.
     
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  48. SwankPeRFection

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    Guy's way too anal about using a starting clamp on 4 or 5 of the mains. WTF? Seriously? Once you get one of the main two mains turned at least once or twice on grommets, it's not going to slip back when you clamp. He's using the starting clamp way too much. Either his 3-tooth clamps suck and slip too much or he's just wasting time. I've never had 5 tooth clamps slip when stringing mains on any racquet I've strung and I watch and feel the string to be sure. If it's slipping, but the clamp isn't tight enough. There is always that fine line between too tight and not tight enough that people seem to be scared of. Sure, it's harder to find with slippery poly, but once you get a feel for what the snap of the gripper locking in should be on a particular string, you'll know what to feel for.
     
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  49. tennis_ocd

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    At what specific time in the video is the wasted movement? I'd like to understand what your stating but just do see anything wrong.
     
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