What do you see? what to work on? appreciate!

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by ninaz, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. ninaz

    ninaz Rookie

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    #1
  2. INTO10s

    INTO10s New User

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    I need to watch it again since I was distracted by the girl on the last court. Wow! I have never seen anybody take such a high hop on their split step, it was like watching somebody from the african masai tribe doing their traditional "jumping dance"
     
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  3. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    She is doing great! Keep on doing what your doing.
     
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  4. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Quite good footwork. Good forehand. Backhand is defensive. She seemed to hit all outwide balls with close stance and gave up the whole court. Luckily the opponent did not go down the line or go after her weak return.

    Not many sustained rallying...,,,,guess the other side is weaker.
    Is she around 14s ?
     
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  5. ninaz

    ninaz Rookie

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    Thank you all, could you explain more there or give the exact time on the clip?

    she is 11 and play u14 tournament, her opponent is pretty high ranked at *******. She was lucky, won in tie breaker..
     
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  6. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Look at .40, 3.12, 4.16, 4.19 and 5.28 on the clip. I think that is one area she can improve on her backhand, returning outwide ball with authority or defensive deep and recover. She did well with the outwide ball on her forehand.

    She is quite good at 11. Keep up the good work!
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  7. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    It's nice to see a young women playing with a one handed backhand!
    I hope she sticks with it.

    I think she might be over rotating on the forehand, not allowing for more of a driving forehand.

    Just my opionon, anyhow great to see a ohbh!
     
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  8. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    It depends if the one hander is working for her. It appears quite defensive, she is almost relying on it as a slice to avoid busting it into the corner. This is common with juniors, the backhand with many is lame at best. She shows little interest in getting into the corner fast, setting up, then using the back hand to set up her next shot.

    The reason 99% of WTA players use the 2 hander is with today's rocket racquets it becomes more difficult for a female to make the one hander work for them against power and high kicking spin.

    So while it may be 'nice to see', a realistic evaluation must be performed by her coach as she ages to see if she would be much better off switching to 2 hands. There are levels in tennis, she will have a hard time handling the national 16s-18s with that backhand.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  9. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Coach, she is only 11 yrs. old and still developing her game.

    Maybe her coach see's something in her that merits a ohbh.

    It's not everybody's desire to become a pro.
     
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  10. CoachDad

    CoachDad Rookie

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    I have had postings back and forth with ninaz in the past, serious tennis parent with serious goals.

    No offense, but I would bet 100 coaches would watch that video and see the backhand was too defensive. And most would not recommend she continue with a 1 hb for her higher goals.

    In my opinion the video was posted for serious give and take on what she can improve. Age 11 for girls is fairly advanced, she plays the 14s already. In the 16s things get ramped up 1000 notches.

    The best advice most coaches would give is that juniors need to be trained to defend the corners, especially the backhand side. It takes lots of work to get a kid to hustle into the corners, set their feet, do something with the backhand, and get back to defend the court.

    Whether she wants to try pros, D-1, or even compete nationally in the 18s, she needs to start working on that flaw quite soon. Habits at 11 for girls who started tennis at age 6-7 are hard to break. Age 11 sounds young, but in tennis speak regarding girls it is not young....not my rules, just reality today.

    I would guess ninaz would say constructive posts like mine and 10ismom's were more what was in mind when the video was posted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I notice a rare 1 handed BH, but it seems much weaker and defensive compared to the aggressive 2 handed BHs of juniors of the same age.
     
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  12. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    ohhh brother here we go again....
     
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  13. Korso

    Korso Semi-Pro

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    There is a lack of confidence on her backhand. She is not getting her self into a good position to make a solid groundstoke on the backhand side. Along with footwork I would work on the basic fundamentals of the one handed backhand from take back, point of contact, and follow through until this becomes natural. Her vision of where she should be striking the ball will become easier if she is confident in her footwork and swing. I would work on that now before she becomes completly dependend on the forehand. The smarter players are going to make her work hard for those forehands.
    Her forehand looks good for an 11 year old and I believe it will get better as she grows. Sure there are some small details that good be tweaked but to me her swing looks easy and natural. If she is consistant and can put the ball where she wants it. I would not mess around with her potential weapon. The confidence is already there.
     
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  14. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    You see "flaws", I see development.

    OHBH is probably one of the toughest strokes to learn, especially for a girl. Many say she is too defensive, but that's one of the beauties of hitting a ohbh.

    She even hits a slice during one point, how many 11 year olds even with a one or two handed backhand will slice at that age during a tournament match.

    There are obvious reasons why her coach/parent has her hitting a one hander.

    Let's just embrace those reasons and give good solid advice.
     
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  15. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is nothing wrong in CoachDad's suggestion. It is just reality. Recently, Djokovic said in an interview that he started out with a 1 hander, but was weak and being beaten up by the other guys, so he switched to a 2 hander. If that can happen to a world #1, it can happen to anybody.

    It is much easier to switch to a 2 hander now that the player is young, than wait till the habits become set and rigid.
     
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  16. WoodIndoors

    WoodIndoors New User

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    Kick with that service motion?
     
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  17. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    I'm not saying that Coach is wrong, in fact I agree, but her coach/parent choose to have her play with the ohbh for reasons we don't know about.

    Sampras switched to a ohbh when he was 14, five years later he won the US Open.
     
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  18. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    The major problem with 1hbh is that not that many coaches can teach it properly at a really high level to make it a weapon. It can be developed into a weapon if learned really well but without much help from coaches she must do it on her own. That might be tough, but I developed a very competitive 1hbh on my own and I don't see why it can't be done. Needs a real dedication to perfect a skill on her own though.
     
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  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    But he never had a good offensive backhand and did not face many of the slow bouncing courts of today or players like Nadal. He used his BH to set up his forehand, and his serve and volley clinched the deal. OHBH is great along with a great serve and volley, which is unlikely in the modern women's game.

    Women's game is mediocre serve, followed by deadly groundstrokes off both wings.

    Federer worked on his OHBH and made it a weapon only when Nadal started exploiting it.

    The only women who use a 1 hander today are Schiavone, Carla Navarro, and maybe a couple more.
     
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  20. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Doesn't matter if Smapras had a defensive or offensive backhand, he still won 14 gs, plus Federer probably slices 80% of his backhands. (recently with Annacone, he is slicing less)

    Who had the greatest "defensive" OHBH, Graf.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  21. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    How many Slams have Almagro and Wawrinka won?

    1 handed BH is a stroke which is great when mastered. It has taken me years to get my one hander to be good enough at the 4.0 singles level to be handle high and top-spin balls without slicing, plus I also use a 2 hander when the ball is too fast for me, like a deep quick return to my serve. The times when I use the 2 hander by instinct has taught me the disadvantages of the 1 hander - longer time to setup, body turning sideways, vision not continuously focused on the front. It looks elegant may not be good enough reason to keep it if you are a kid. Me, at my age, cannot learn a 2 hander, except in the reflexive cases. For a kid, sky is the limit.
     
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  22. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    Mayo Hibi... from SoCal is a blue chip sophomore currently ranked #2 TR.. plays 1hbh ... she's playing the 18G ,she's really young ..

    I suggest working on her 1hbh slice to perfection ,right now it looks a bit weak..
     
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  23. ninaz

    ninaz Rookie

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    Thank you all for the constructive comments. She used to use 2hbh, and hit super hard as well. then she wanted to use ohbh due to her sister using it. actually i am debating if i should switch her back hand as well.
     
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  24. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    On 1hbh, she should close her stance more and generate arm swing speed from the pulling out and opening of the right shoulder while the left arm and shoulder anchoring the other side for balance. Currently the swing is too much pushing toward the target not generated full swing speed. When pulled from the shoulder with relaxed arm and firm wrist control, racquet head speed should increase (for that contact moment) quite a bit and can generate more topspin as well for better control.

    Forehand, a tad too much rotation and backhand, too little rotation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
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  25. Mitch Bridge

    Mitch Bridge Rookie

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    Is she an excellent ball-striker? You can have a one-hander today and succeed if you are an exceptional ball-striker. If not it will be attacked and picked-on. She will also need a good serve and strong approach/volley game to stay offensive.
     
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  26. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    I would say she needs to work on playing closer to the baseline and taking the ball earlier. Regarding 1hbh vs 2hbh it depends what kind of player you think she will become. If she shows any disposition to play all-court game (and this clip does not prove that) then you can work on her backhand slice, volleys and transition game. Every successful junior girl with 1hbh that I saw had a relatively weak bh drive but a killer slice that they used to chip and charge or to pull their opponent to the net at will. They also went to the net at first chance and/or ran around their backhand a lot, they could move very well in all directions. Usually these players would do anything to escape getting involved into long baseline rallies that the majority of their opponents prefers. If you do not see your girl having these special talents to play this non-standard game then you will be much better off switching her back to 2hbh asap.
    It is a pleasure to watch Mayo Hibi play but she lost to Taylor today and I suspect that she had big problems returning her serve with 1hbh. Maybe somebody who saw the match can comment?
     
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  27. SoCal10s

    SoCal10s Hall of Fame

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    I'd say stay with the 2hbh for those big drives,high balls,and most service returns .. and perfect that 1hbh slice,also using it for the volleys ...
     
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  28. ninaz

    ninaz Rookie

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  29. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Looking at the video I was thinking she was an OK but nothing special ~14 yr old. Finding out that she is 11 and she has years to improve shows that she could be pretty good. I also picked up on the weak backhand, but more the movement. It looks like she doesn't anticipate and move to the backhand side well. Also, with a one-handed backhand, even though there is more reach, movement is more important. The relationship of the body to the ball is more important and more exacting. Her contact point is late - she needs to get behind the ball and get her weight into it. Her serve looks pretty good for her age. Fundamentals on forehand and backhand could be improved, but she is only 11.
     
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  30. Korso

    Korso Semi-Pro

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    The backhand needs some work. She is hitting the ball too close to her body. She is not attacking the ball. If she is allowed to continue to hit her backhand this way it will become a defensive (pusher) type shot. I think she is too young to settle for that.
    Fundamentals need to be revisited. Grip, take back, point of contact, and follow through. The more she plays with her type of swing the harder it is going to be to change the swing.
    Good footwork is needed on the 1 handed back hand as well.
    She is often stepping sideways or backwards to the ball. She should be cutting the angle off and and getting the right shoulder turned with ease.
     
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  31. ninaz

    ninaz Rookie

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    Could you give me details? or give me the time on the clip? or some other video to demo? appreciate.
     
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  32. Korso

    Korso Semi-Pro

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    If you go to youtube there is a ton of free stuff to look at for the one handed back hand fundamentals. I would take a look at a bunch of them because there are quite a few different ways to hit a great one handed back hand. Go with the one that seems more natural for your daughters physical abilities.
    Here is a website that someone sent to me from the stringforum. OnlineTennisInstruction.com. There are a lot of other good online tennis instruction sites too.
     
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  33. widmerpool

    widmerpool Rookie

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    I only know one thing, OHBs, so I will restrict it to those...

    EDIT: I'm referring to the first video...

    Check out 4:14

    You can't flick your wrist like racquetball. You have to set that front-foot and then really plow through with a firm wrist and the front shoulder is a brake. The racquet face needs to just be closed over the whole time.

    Freeze it at :21. She's falling to the side and then simply doing a wrist flick. There's a nice big take-back but it's not being used. She opens up before hitting so the shoulder-brake is just gone.

    Ok, at 2:05, she sets up perfectly and the contact is mostly wrist. The arm needs to unfold over the ball and the force of the swing should bring her arm around. Right now, she just seems to tacking on the the follow-through.

    Compare that to the FH where she is swinging with such force that the follow through is necessary for deceleration.

    Watch Henin! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdDwMj3_WMA

    Look around 1:00

    She is just absolutely smothering the ball right in her wheelhouse. The shoulder and front foot are planted. The wrist does not flick through. It naturally comes over in the deceleration. And she doesn't follow through "forward", she follows-through around her body because of the force of the swing.

    As far as the slices, that's easy to fix. Don't simply chop under a ball. The path of the swing should be saucer shaped. i.e. with a slight upswing at the end so you are really going THROUGH the ball, not cutting at the bottom. That will also keep the ball down.

    EDIT: Freeze the 2nd video at 4:11. Setting up with a nice "base". 4:12 Base gone. Finish the shot. Stay in there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
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  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. And there was one shoulder-high ball which was not in her wheelhouse, and that showed how awkward it was for her.
     
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  35. widmerpool

    widmerpool Rookie

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    ^ Well, the sky is the limit for anyone with that level of OHB.

    Henin just let the ball ride up on her once in that video. I suppose a 2HB could "fight" that off a little better but you still need footwork no matter the type of BH.
     
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  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Precisely. At the junior level, there are plenty of girls who know to throw high loopy ones to the backhand. A one hander will struggle a wee bit more, but that can be enough to tilt the balance.
     
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  37. Korso

    Korso Semi-Pro

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    Henin's foot work is rock solid, getting herself into a position to make an easy shot. She knows exactly where she needs to be to strike the ball with confidence. Beautiful motion. One of my favorites.
     
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  38. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Her secret was the extreme Eastern grip on the BH and an even balanced frame. That is how she got her power. Both are not advisable because they can cause arm problems. I would be careful about telling girls to follow her example.
     
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  39. Korso

    Korso Semi-Pro

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    That is why I suggested doing some research on the one handed backhand and go with what is most natural :)
    I want to serve like Sampras but....
     
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