What do you think of Jo11yroger's Forehand take back?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mansewerz, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I replied.

    I hope reading this thread has not gotten your confidence up :)

    J
     
  2. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Jolly, maybe for comments such as these, you should invent some really wild answer.

    Such as...you can't step forward because your peg leg gets in the way!



    You know, you can always get a thread locked...especially if it has outlived its usefulness...your choice.
     
  3. Jackie T. Stephens

    Jackie T. Stephens Professional

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    I'm sorry but that's corny :)
     
  4. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Yeah me too Jolly, sorry if I got pissy as well- I don't want to get on anybody's bad side here. I do have good intentions. I understand where you are coming from on this. Good luck working hard - I have my own technical crosses to bear that I am working on too, and I know, boy do I know how hard it can be to try to change the seemingly simplest thing. :)
     
  5. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Yeah - I just wanted to get anything to show some extension out front, and Fed was easy to find on quick notice. You make a good point.
     
  6. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I am trying to add more variety, mixing in the self depricating humor, with the witty banter, a little slapstick, and a healthy dose of the dry british humor.

    Plus I would feel somewhat comfortable thinking that the wilson dude wouldn't enjoy the ride so much if he had a hit with me.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCHCAhzmqJ4

    But what do I know? Maybe he would squash me.

    As far as having the thread locked, that just isn't my style.

    Some days you are the bug, and some days you are the windshield.

    J
     
  7. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    You've hit with me. When has my confidence ever been up?
     
  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No worries man, we will both stay at it. I blame my heritage, part italian makes me stupid, part german makes me stubborn. I don't know how everything else that I am mixed in with figures into tennis playing. But one thing is for certain, my ancestors weren't picky. If it held still, they were on it!

    Just reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine. He is a teaching pro, older guy, runs programs for kids.

    And I was telling him this story of how I played a dude with the absolute biggest serve I have ever faced. This guy was huge, 6'6" probably 255lbs. Told me after the match he was clocked at 121 when he was 14 years old.

    So I was telling the guy the story, and he said "Oh, just block it back."

    And I just kind of tilted my head to the side and looked at him like "Are you F'ing stupid or something?"

    J
     
  9. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    After the fourt shot of Tequilla I would imagine it would be Sampras like.

    J
     
  10. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Does Pete Sampras have an alcoholic sibling I don't know about?
     
  11. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    He does have a brother. Ugly looking dude. Makes us look handsome, and that is saying something.

    J
     
  12. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Oh yeah. Forgot about that guy. I think my game probably resembles his, regardless of whether he plays or not.
     
  13. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Would be funny if he actually was better than pete, and kicked his ass all the time in practice, but just didn't like travelling so got a job at the local pharmacy.

    J
     
  14. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    WTF. What's with the Italian = stupid joke.

    :mad::mad::mad:
     
  15. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Jesus. That's funny.

    Yeah that was brutal. Italians are actually 'molto furbo' (look it up).
     
  16. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    According to the general concensus I am a mamaluke.

    J
     
  17. wilsondude

    wilsondude Banned

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    As I said in the other thread regarding the 2hfh player, my videos are from a while back. That was almost a year ago. I have improved to the point where you wouldn't believe it. I will have a new 15-20 minute video up on youtube within a week which shows the comparison of my complete game of January and a few days ago. I am now a 5.0, and I beat the 17 year old from the other thread. Keep in mind I am only 15. I'm not trying to start conflicts here, I just dont think our games are a comparison. My curiousity to the public of TT is how this Jo11yRoger is a legend to you people. I have read some of his posts, but you all treat him like hes g-d. By no means should you treat him poorly; I am just stating that the level of respect given to him is astonishing. It is above and beyond, and he doesn't have the game to back it up. I am stumbled.
     
  18. wilsondude

    wilsondude Banned

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    On the other hand, what do I know, I am just a 5.0 15 year old.

    M
     
  19. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    So do you plan on turning pro at 17-18? To me, a 5.0 at 15 seems like he would be a tennis prodigy. That means you have the ability to give Tonlars a run for his money, and hes a college DII player.

    But whatever you say
     
  20. wilsondude

    wilsondude Banned

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    I would consider myself a strong 4.5/weak 5.0 by your standards then. If the two handed player from the other thread has a chance of being a 5.0 though then I am definately at least that.
     
  21. sharpilistik

    sharpilistik Banned

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    jolly,

    sorry if this question has been asked before as I don't have time to go through the entire thread but

    what camera are you using to take the slomo? its amazing.
     
  22. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    The NTRP with kids is tough. Since some are great for their age and theyll get better with time, its hard to rate a kid like that less than 5.0, even though if they played league tennis with men they probably fit well with 4.5, and also be able to compete with 5.0 but not win a whole lot probably. I play the # 30 something 16's usta player a few times a week and have given him some bagels and often he will get a few games and have competitive sets with me, I guess If i had to rate him id say he is a solid to strong 5.0. By the time he is 18 I have no doubt he will be a 5.5-6.0 and be able to play college tennis about anywhere he wants to.

    btw im out of college now, 24 yrs of age, I dont think im old but I cant believe my age and how fast it goes:(
     
  23. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I would like to think that people like/respect me, because I treat them with the respect that they deserve, not because of percieved tennis playing ability.

    I am not a god, just a really cool guy.

    Good to hear that you are improving, if you bust your tail now, you will never have to ask yourselves questions later.

    Hopefully you will work hard and get to play college tennis, something which I was denied.

    J
     
  24. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Casio EX-FH20.

    It is pretty cool.

    Going to try to get court time Thanksgiving morning, so hopefully I can put up some more video.

    J
     
  25. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I guess you got a point. The more I read about NTRP, the more confused I become. I'm a 15 year old as well, and when I self rated myself I thought I was a 5.0. Then I saw you play and then thought of myself as a low 4.0, which I know think is accurate. I'm seriously starting to consider not even talking about my NTRP untill I become 18 and get a computer generated now. For now, I'll just say I'm a varsity tennis and track athlete on my highschool team, for that much I know for sure. What my NTRP really is I'll never find out until im 18...

    And no your not old lol, and your still damn good in my book. I've actually been trying to model my forehand like yours, and your pretty much my idol on these boards. My current goal is to become a DII player. If I reach that goal I will have considered that I actually accomplished something worthwhile in my tennis career. I'm dedicated to the sport and play 4-5 hours a day, just hoping to get to that DII college/5.0-5.5 level. That's why I'm skeptical of these 15 year olds that say they're a 5.0, but then again, that's prob just me being jelous.:neutral:
     
  26. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I am fighting it, kicking, clawing, and screaming.

    A couple of months ago I was in Home Depot looking at bathroom vanities at 9:30PM on a Saturday night. And as I stood in the plumbing aisle tapemeasure and note pad in hand, I thought to myself that somewhere something went horribly wrong.

    J
     
  27. wilsondude

    wilsondude Banned

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    Thx for replying Jolly.
     
  28. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No problem bud, it is your generation that has to carry the Wilson flag in the future.

    J
     
  29. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Hi Julieta,

    I was serious about the dance, Greg Patton at UCI way back when recommended dance to all athletes. I took his advice and as a student the classes were "free" so I took three years of ballet, modern, and jazz. I danced five days a week. Some day I danced for three hours. There is nothing like waking up early in the morning, doing bar work, sunlight streaming thru the windows, with a live piano! I was no good at it but it was great and improved my tennis greatly. I did audition for a dance show my senior year but didn't get pick. I wasn't buff enough.

    The new training methods seems more efficient in that they can tailor themselves to sport specific requirements but dance is cooler. If I could do it all over again, I would have taken martial arts and dance as a kid.
     
  30. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ Glad you were in attendence for my first ever match where I S&Ved every serve first and second for 2 sets.

    In 2 sets I hit exactly one groundstroke on a service game, and that was when I had to run down a lob.

    J
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  31. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Yeah, I saw that from my court. I also saw the one lob retrieval. I came back after I finish hitting but you guys were finishing up. The other two, J and J, in the other court were also fun to watch because they came in to the net as often as possible. I noticed that you were the only one with a 2BH but M commented that you were using the 1BH slice. So, when you were serving you were a 1BH'er.

    You know, if you work on chip and chargin on second serve when returning on short balls you may end up being a 1BH more than 50 percent of the time. We'll change you into a touch player yet :)

    FYI, the K-Factor is the best volley racket I've ever used, better than the ProStaff. I'll probably add some lead to it eventually.
     
  32. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Wait. . . Wait. . . Are you implying that I would. . . BLOCK?!?! a serve return, when I didn't absolutely have to?

    Are you feeling well?

    Are the anti-inflammatories getting to you?

    You chip and charge. . . I belt and bonzai.

    J
     
  33. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Bah! Impudent little grass hopper!

    Whack on head. When did I say block? I said chip.
     
  34. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I dunno...this chipping stuff sounds an awful lot like blocking. I am highly suspicious of your intent.

    I am going to sleep now, but we need to have a discussion about half volleys. I have the one where you hit it back to the exact center of your opponent's court and then stand there like a moron as you get passed absolutely perfected. So I need a couple of other options to practice.

    Next singles match is against Bruce Allmighty on Thanksgiving morning, and I think I am going to S&V all the time against him from now on too.

    The hardest part of this entire ordeal is serving slow enough that I actually get a chance to practice volleying.

    J
     
  35. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    You don't trust me, you are getting smart :) No, chipping isn't blocking.

    You can always half-volley to the bottom of the net, less effort, you won't get passed and picking up the ball is easy.

    I may have to watch this, there will be no rallies at all then :) Great!

    I did notice the slower serve, that kicker that you've been working on with you coach, are you going to use it soon? More racket speed, more spin, but less ball speed.

    You are turning into Edberg.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No, just serving slow enough to challange the returner, but still allow him to get the ball back. The offspeed one isn't as much fun, and it doesn't kick any higher, and isn't as reliable. He never said he wanted less ballspeed, just that he wanted more pronounced break after the bounce. I throw it once in a while, just for something different, kind of like how I use the hard slider so that it stays low and contrasts everything else.

    I only throw you the offspeed one once in a while to **** you off when you are starting to time the normal one. But that is because you laugh at my singing ability.

    J
     
  37. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Isn't chipping a short slice motion?
     
  38. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    You are getting old mate! Just be grateful that you aren't ridiculously old like some of us. You can still probably stand up straight and walk down stairs within 5 minutes of getting out of bed.
     
  39. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Thanks for the props (my check must have cleared). J011y's comment is accurate...his ball seemed to come in quite flat (but heavy) on the hard courts, and he definitely put more rotation on the ball when we moved to the clay court. I think that happens instinctively for a lot of (high level) players.

    And as he also mentioned, spin is relative. Even his fairly flat balls have a lot more spin than the strokes of those with less bat speed. They just come at you fast so you don't think as much about the spin. This is also very true of the pro game, as mentioned. People refer to Agassi, for example, as hitting relatively flat on the FH...and he had a TON of ball rotation. In fact, he hit heavier spin than most topspin players of the previous era, other than a few. Almost all of the guys on tour now hit with as much spin as the heavy topspinners of the previous eras, but they do so with more MPH. Seeing it in person (up close, not from the crappy 300 section of some stadium) will change the way you see things. They hit a ton of spin, even the so called "flat" hitters like Berdych, Youzhny, etc.
     
  40. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Topspin is a choice (wow, that sounded really political)...but there's definitely no lack of racquet head speed on J011y's strokes.
     
  41. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Having hit with J011y, I can tell you that video in no way gives you an idea of the speed and weight of his ball. It's not sped up, and his ball is much harder hit than the video makes it look. If you're a 4.0, you would have NO chance unless he missed every ball, and had that kind of day. What kind of day you had wouldn't matter...it would be about what kind of day HE had. He hits hard enough to control his own destiny. Heavy feet and lack of fitness would make you a spectator.

    On a related note, above the 4.5 level (up to 6.0), it would be pretty tough for a non-professional coach to parse subtle stroke differences via video. There are 4.5s with beautiful pro-style strokes who get smoked by 5.5s with awkward ones. (See videos of Val Wilder for examples.) So a recreational player trying to label someone as 4.5 or 5.0 or 5.5 or whatever via video clip would be wasting his (and other posters') time. Additionally, the numbers no longer mean anything, as the 4.5 leagues, at least in the ETA, are populated with guys who have top 10 sectional rankings in the Open category, and the 5.0 leagues (when they find enough players to hold them) have recent satellite players and even a few former Davis Cup players. There's a big difference these days with having a "4.5 game", and winning at the actual 4.5 level.
     
  42. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    He doesn't belong in a 4.0 league. He would double bagel most of the guys in 4.0.
     
  43. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    for sure..lots of people confuse spin and trajectory....it is possible to hit a rapidly spinning hard hit ball w. little net clearance...that's what most of the WTAers do and many of the ATPers
     
  44. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I used to play the winter tourneys at Sutton and can tell you that the level seems to vary a lot from tournament to tournament. I played one there a number of years ago that was won by a circuit player from Germany who had ATP points. I've also seen events there where the highest ranked player was just mid-30's in the ETA rankings. It's a crapshoot. Speaking of things that start with crap, the surface and lighting aren't good, but it's not unplayable by any means. It's best to get a court in the middle of the bubble, for both lighting and being able to lob properly. Still, I don't know of many decent clay courts in all of of Manhattan that are open to the public, so it's par for the course. If someone does know of any, please let me know. (If anyone answers Roosevelt Island, their judgement and credibility will immediately be questioned!)
     
  45. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Honestly, if you don't know J011y, you really can't say which league he's in. I totally agree with Shanet. J011y would eat 4.0 players.
     
  46. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Actually, yes you can. NTRP ratings are based on one thing...results. Based on his results, 4.0 is not an unreasonable rating.
     
  47. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    He plays open tournaments.
     
  48. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    So? So have I, I'm a 3.5. Heck, I'm even ranked in my section!!! Why? Because I beat a 3.0.

    Until you make it far in an open that has more than 5 competitors, it means nothing.

    You don't have to be a particular NTRP level to play opens, btw.

    Again...NTRP is based on RESULTS. His results have already been posted on this thread. It is *not* a stretch to suggest that he play in a 4.0 league. He'd probably improve much faster if he did so.
     
  49. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    Where are those results?
     
  50. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    If the below, which I am only copying for reference, is any indicator of Jolly vs. 4.0 and a ligit 5.0, then not only are 4.0's getting points off of him, but winning games as well. I can't imagine Jolly missing that many forehands - I could be wrong, LOL.

    Just basd off of tourney results to 4.0's, with less than stellar records, he looks to be competitive at 4.0.

    As you are contending, and backed up by Rickson, that he would crush most 4.0's, and he is getting 0-2 on a legit 5.0, seems like 4.5 would at least be a good place to play?
     

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