What do you think of Jo11yroger's Forehand take back?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mansewerz, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Rickson...I play open tournaments too, even have a legit win in one this year against a 16's Champ, but I still haven't won a 3.5 or 4.0 tournament. It is a good learning experience, and it allows one to see big serves, and big groundies----but the end of the day, a person still has to go out at their competitive level, and grind out wins by playing high percentage tennis.

    I am not taking anything away from Jo11y either. I think it's way cool what he has done playing all those Opens. I played up, what...at least 5 times this year gettingn two legit wins- and took some flak for it from those who know me, but I learned things that will help me improve at my current level.

    It's back to the hack level for me, LOL.
     
  2. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    This is a very good point, and opens up a whole new topic of discussion with respect to NTRP ratings. (In fact, we could start a separate thread, if there were interest.) The same issue applies to older players. Someone who was a top tour player (for sake of argument, let's say ATP Top 10) was at some point a 7.0 by definition. But with age, that same player may eventually play anywhere on down to the equivalent of a 4.0 level competitively at some point in his life. How do you rate players like this?

    The bigger issue is whether the NTRP is being used as a metric of stroke production so that lessons can be given properly, or is it a measure of whom a player can beat, and therefore to be used for league/tournament handicapping. The problem is that it's being used for both, but the two purposes don't mirror each other in terms of needs or analysis. You can't use the same standards for both. As we've seen, there are players with major stroke flaws, even at the world class level. There are also players with great mechanical games who lose to lesser physical players because of other reasons (ranging from speed to mental toughness to competitive fire to....).

    When the NTRP was created/invented, the intention was to classify stroking levels, and it was used as such. It was intended to be a tool for instructors, not a rating system for handicapping playa, though they didn't really think through how it would evolve, and had imagined it would work as both. However, because having a handicapping system was in such demand, it became repurposed as such. Since then, as the idea of the NTRP league play became more widespread, the ratings have become distorted, and in some cases compressed (which is why people are so loathe to hand out precious 5.0 ratings, when originally the designation was meant to apply to a club level "A" player. Anyone with a sectional/regional ranking was, under the original system, defined as at least a 5.0, and usually a 5.5. Anyone with any kind of national ranking was meant to be a 5.5 - 6.0. It was assumed that obviously the equivalent level player in the open category would smoke the same level in, say, the 55s. But that 55 year old was still a 5.5 (not, say, a 4.5 based on which open players he could beat).

    The further result has been that people's competitive natures have caused those in leagues, etc. to play in as low an NTRP category as possible. This is why you have former Davis Cup players in the 4.5 leagues now (as well as top 10 sectional open players), rather than in the 6.0+ category that was automatic for them under the original system. In a nutshell, in the standard used when NTRP was invented, a player couldn't go down in level by getting older, and wasn't really penalized for rustiness. This is a far cry from how many use it now.

    So when we discuss a player and his relative NTRP level, there's bound to be a lot of disagreement on how to classify him. If we can't even get the scale or goals in line with each other, there's no way to use the system accurately.
     
  3. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    LPShanet,

    His USTA results show he loses and somtimes gets bageled BY 4.0s, so maybe the video is misleading.

    Not a thought, but fact.
     
  4. Jracer77

    Jracer77 Rookie

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    Ahhh, there someone goes again posting Jolly's actual results again (clearly 4.0 level) and probably offending 1000's of Jolly groupies who are sure he would obliterate mere 4.0 mortals. I don't understand you people who keep insisting on introducing facts that contradict the myth......shame on you!!!
     
  5. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    now they're calling you a groupie, Rickson!
     
  6. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Your post raises a lot of good ideas, but I have to disagree on this point.

    An NTRP rating is assigned by how a player does against other players of a known rating. You have a dynamic NTRP that changes with each match that you play, and then once (or twice, depending on where you live) a year the computer spits out a number based on your *results*. There is nothing relative about it.

    If I'm a 3.5, yet if I play up and show that I'm competitive and/or beat 4.0 players (or, consistently beat other 3.5s by a large margin), then there's a good bet I'll get moved up to 4.0, as I've proven though match results that I can play at the level. If I get hammered by a 4.0 0 and 2, I'll stay a 3.5...it doesn't matter if I played that 4.0 in a 4.0 league, an age group tournament, or an open.
     
  7. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    where is your old video wilsondude? and how did you improve so drastically? watching your new vid was nice and impressive, but I wouldn't call you a 5.0 yet.

    definitely show us more vids and possibly some match play vids. It's impressive that you beat the 2hfh guy because he looked like a really solid player...4.5 in my book... if he's 4.0 I'm 3.0. -_-

    what racquet are you using btw? I just got an RQiS 2 tour 27.5"....I don't think I can have as nice looking strokes as yours with this extended frame...is a little bit harder to maneuver and can get jammed more easily for shots to the body.

    Ah yes! Tonlars you are still here :D Just today someone IM'ed me b/c he was interested in my RQiS 1 tour...he said "Tonlars uses it...must be good..lol". Your positive influence here outweighs some of the crap that gets recycled in TTW :D


    EDIT: Actually, I think I was confusing you with wilsonplayer...unless you guys are one and the same. Where are your videos wilsondude?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  8. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Don't even bother, I put up bad results in tournaments, and until I put up some good ones, everyone is free to believe whatever they want.

    Hopefully we can hit semi-regularly over the winter, you are like the supreme practice partner.

    J
     
  9. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    Hey Rickson,

    Above are the posts about Jolly's results from 2007 to date. I'll sum it up:

    - Jolly is 4/20 (including a withdrawal) in the last 2 years.
    - He has only once won a match back to back. Above are the results and as you can see, weak 4.0s push him.
    -He gets bageled by 4.5-5.0 players.

    Since you are friends with Jolly, you could probably ask him for his name (privately) and look these results up yourself on tennislink.

    All in all, its not unreasonable to think Jolly would benefit from playing in a 4.0 league. I think NBMJ, Julieta and many others are giving good, precise recommendations by saying this.
     
  10. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    no offense intended but you also put up lots of video of you which matches your results. pretty conclusive stuff
     
  11. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    See my post about NTRP above for a little more detail on the whys and wherefores, but it's not that simple. And NTRP ratings are NOT supposed to be based on results, although they're often used as such now.

    The USTA's computer system totally butchers the NTRP system and rankings by rewarding certain players for playing lots of events, and by allowing people to play down without much recrimination. One example is the team that won the 4.5 men's nationals a few years ago from the Mid-Atlantic section. That team included a guy whose playing resume included top 10 in South Africa, 3-time collegiate All-American, Davis Cup alternate for a world group team, and a bunch of circuit and ATP points. And he didn't even play #1 doubles for them that much...he played #2 and #3 mostly...and had losses!! He was allowed to play in the 4.5's simply because he had been out of college more than 5 years. Another example is the guy who is currently ranked #1 in the ETA in the men's open category (and deservedly so). He was ranked below 100 in a few previous years, even though he'd been #1 before that. Clearly skewed. (And he's listed as 5.0 even though he had quite a few ATP points in his younger days, as well as a high national ranking.)

    Having first hand experience with the subject in question, I have to respectfully say that I think you're incorrect in this case. J011y wouldn't get much out of playing the 4.0s, although there are a ton of good ranked players in the 4.5 leagues here, which makes them fun for anyone from 4.5 on up to 5.5 in many cases. THAT would be a good spot to play. I'm sure somewhere in the country there are people playing down in the 4.0s who could beat higher level players on a given day. And with a game like J011y's, which is high power and high risk, there's always the given day when a much lower level pusher can take you out. But I think the 4.0s in general would be a waste of time for someone of that level, and are likely to encourage bad habits to develop.

    It's a bit like watching a pro match on TV versus live...you don't really get a sense of what's happening to the ball and what it would take to get it back. Tennis at the highest levels has a lot to do with "shot tolerance" and J011y's ball presents considerable problems for opponents in that regard. He's also faster than he looks or admits.
     
  12. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    4.5 sounds about right.
     
  13. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    As a former coach of high level players, I'd have to disagree with you here as well. While there is some benefit to learning to beat the pushers and those with styles you don't like to face, this is more of a strategy for club players. If the goal is to compete at a higher level and eventually beat lots of good tournament players, you need to face the best competition you can reasonably compete against more than you need to start beating the worst players who have some shot at getting sets off you (even if there is some benefit to that). This is why top juniors play up in age group and why the best of them (and college players) play pro tournaments before they go pro. It's most important to learn how to address the tools of the players whom you will face at the level you ultimately hope to compete at. Most players will to some extent play down to the level of their competition. So if the goal is improvement, the best advice is to start playing the players you hope to beat at the next level of your game.

    J011y hits the same kind of ball that open players do, not the kind you see most often at the 4.0 level. (I say this with respect to the ball speed/spin/path/style itself, and have no intention of getting into specific discussions about mechanics and form right now.) So he belongs at the level he is playing now, and the one he describes himself as. Does greater consistency help any power player? Of course. But in terms of whom he should be facing and playing, the 4.0 level isn't appropriate.
     
  14. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I don't personally know the particular players in question that he faced (which is why I'm wisely not commenting on them...others might do well to consider doing likewise with respect to players they've never played with), nor do I know if they are "legit" 4.0 or 5.0 players, whatever that still means these days. I do know that the leagues are filled with players who have intentionally low rankings, because they care more about winning than having good competition. I also do know how J011y plays, and am confident that playing regularly against proper 4.0s wouldn't be of any use to him. (Not to say that we can't all benefit from the occasional practice for winning the awkward matches that you're expected to win.) 4.5, at least in the leagues in some of the ETA areas, is a good level for almost any good player to play, as almost all the 5.0s (and quite a few 5.5s) are also now in those leagues.
     
  15. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I can see why you might think so, and I know it's always fun to try and debunk things Snopes-style. But I have no agenda here, and can tell you from hitting with him personally that the video is misleading...he's better than it looks in the video, by a considerable margin, and he's no 4.0. The USTA results mean little, as you haven't hit with the guys who beat him any more than you've hit with him. And that's also a fact.

    As a former designated USTA NTRP verifier, I feel very comfortable with my assertions about the players I have seen in person.
     
  16. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    I would say you should play at the level which best represents your level at the moment based on your results.

    Pretty strokes mean nothing - unless you can marshall your game to beat people at each level. Win your games at 4.0, move up to 4.5, win your games there, play up again.

    This "playing above your real level is appropriate if you have those higher level strokes" is a fallacy which ignores the fact that tennis is about winning with what you got not a beauty competition.

    There's nothing worse than hearing people saying they should be playing at a certain level when their results suggest otherwise "but my shots are much better than that". It's just plain silly. For God's sake learn to win at the lower levels first for your own sake.
     
  17. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Again, that's only correct with respect to how the USTA has used the NTRP...it was absolutely NOT the way it was designed or intended. (And it has no connection to rating the completeness of someone's game, which is how the NTRP terminology was designed.) It also doesn't make any allowance objectively for the heavy underratings some players purposely give themselves, nor does it address the sometimes huge discrepancies between players of a designated level in different regions. It's always tempting to use numbers to support an argument, but you have to really understand the numbers, where they came from, and the quality of the data to use them properly. And in this case, the NTRP means much less than it should.

    If the number that the computer spits out is based on a 4.0 player having faced a number of former Division 1 players with top 10 Sectional open rankings who simply decided to play 4.0 because they're so competitive that they don't like the idea of ever losing at 4.5 or 5.0, then the number is pointless, when you compare it to data of players in another region who were facing "real" 4.0s. And no, the ringers don't always get bumped up, because they often drop league matches to preserve their ranking. This isn't based on supposition. Names are easy to name. Since almost no people, relatively speaking, get to play those from outside their area, there is no real hedge for this, nor is there one for avoiding the skewing of the whole division.
     
  18. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Well, there is at least one other USTA NTRP verifier on here that has chimed in a with a different viewpoint, though.

    Interesting stuff on NTRP...I'm about to head out, though, will come back and read/answer later. You bring up good points about how higher-rated players are sneaking in at 4.5. I'll have to look up the Mid-Atlantic team...wonder if I know anyone on there!!!

    Though, I stand by my statement about playing leagues...I think playing leagues (whether 4.0 or 4.5) would make Jolly much more match tough...something that would help him and improve his play in tournaments!

    And, would someone deserve to be rated above the pushers if they haven't learned how to beat them? Consistency and good movement are, IMO, more effective than a high risk game full of errors.

    More food for thought, I suppose...I do appreciate the respect with which you disagreed!
     
  19. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I blush. Imagine how good a practice partner I could be if the ball sometimes landed between the lines instead of in the general court area. I will definitely move my feet once in a while this winter...not TOO much, though...don't want to freak anyone out.
     
  20. Jracer77

    Jracer77 Rookie

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    It's no wonder these positions have been mostly eliminated.
     
  21. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    That works on paper (and for some players in practice), but if it were true, then many top pros would never have made it. Sampras and Roddick, I'm looking at you. Oh yeah...and two sisters whose name I think is Williams. I know it's a common name, but I think we'd be able to track them down.
     
  22. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    Just one or two results at a level to confirm improvement while challenging yourself in all your other matches?

    Especially when the alternative is not playing matches at all?

    Not a good idea in your mind?
     
  23. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i've also spent a lot of time coaching advanced players <bollietierrea kids and such> and can easily say there are tons of people who can hit it hard, with spin and so forth..that doesnt make someone a better player or even a decent player, especially when it isnt repeatable. he also never said what level he is other than being an Open player which doesnt mean anything. i also cant understand your logic about saying he shouldnt play 4.0's when he doesnt even have a winning record against them, and if as you say, there are 4.0's who are sandbagging and playing at a higher level anyway, that is still within your guidelines for people he should be playing anyway as you stated them
     
  24. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    How can you say that when he already loses to 4.0s. Apparently the 4.0s are not wasting time... "wasting" jolly. Beat 4.0s then you are a 4.5. Beat 4.5s then you can claim to be a 5.0. Beat a 5.0 then we are talking. All while not losing conistently to a lower rating. Nothing will come of it if you can't win consistantly down.

    Wow. The quote doesn't sound illogical. Having a higher NTRP based on preceived ability/strokes, when outcomes of said ability are not producing. Still "scratching head".

    Another way of saying: Lets send a Funny drag car through the obstacle course cause it goes really fast. Thouogh the moped could beat it.

    Good luck with that theory.
     
  25. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Topaz, your tone and respect in our disagreement has been a really great example for how we can have this type of discussion and not have to get nasty about it. I totally respect your opinion and I'm glad you've been polite about mine.

    Hmmmm, there may have been another NTRP verifier opinion, but not one who has hit with the person in question.

    I'm with you on the league play in general. There are some good people in the leagues, and it's a great chance to get some match play in, at whatever level you choose.

    As for the pusher question, I'm not suggesting that they be avoided, nor do I care whether one can beat absolutely all of them before moving on, I'm just saying that it's often possible to jump more than one level and skip over having to play those in between, if you have the appropriate physical tools to do it. When you're seeking to create a tournament level player, you sometimes skip the in-between competition. You can either establish power first, and then learn consistency, movement, etc. or do the opposite. There are examples of players at every level up to all-time great who have done it each way. (e.g. Agassi was taught as a kid to hit the snot out of the ball and not worry about where it went until later. Courier, Chang, Nadal and others were consistent and mobile first, and then increased their power.
     
  26. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    You're absolutely correct. I'm the problem...many people have said it! I'd suggest that you be in charge of all rating from here on in:)
     
  27. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Absolutely it's a good idea. Thought I had also said that at some point in my posts, but if not I should certainly have said that making sure you have that kind of solidity is important. And definitely better than not playing. But in terms of developing physical tools, you want them to be appropriate for the level you end up playing. And I thought we were talking about selecting a level to play an entire league season at, not just occasional practices.
     
  28. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    Agreed with all this.

    I think the suggestion is just to increase playing opportunities by joining a league and using it as a way to solidify as you nicely put it.

    The question is where to start and I would say the lower the better as a start - as long as it's realistic. That way you get picked for more matches and you will be solidifying. The results offered above seem to suggest 4.0 is realistic don't they?
     
  29. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Not sure why you're so determined to try to rate him down. But I'm sure I won't convince you otherwise, so I'll stop trying. I'm guessing the "conspiracy" thing in your post sheds a little light on your mission to make all players lower their ratings. What level do you play at, out of curiosity? Have you had trouble with other people and their self-ratings that somehow affected your well-being? I can understand how it might be annoying, but there are lots of fakes out there, and I don't think this thread is the best place to look.

    There are dozens of examples of guys who eventually win at high levels without beating all the people on the way there. I'm not sure how the drag car example relates, so I won't address it, but it is funny when you turn it into a visual image:)
     
  30. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    And now look at Jolly. Apples and bowling balls (not even oranges).
     
  31. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Yes, the numbers might seem to suggest that, which is why I offered a little additional insight, since I think in this particular case they're misleading.

    Thanks for being as respectful as you have been. Much appreciated. By the way, your blog is great. (It also shows a good example of the tyranny of the rating systems...you're top 50 in the world in the 35's, yet you started and remain a 4.5. That's not what they had in mind when they made the system:)) Good luck with your playing!
     
  32. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    I was making a point (I think fairly accurately in the case of those examples).But that comment seems to me to be mean/insulting just for the sake of it. Much as J011y enjoys/craves being insulted, it accomplishes nothing in that case. J011y is a great guy (and a good player), and has done nothing to you. What's the point of the insults?

    NB: J011y has also helped many on these boards with posts that are intelligent and show a good understanding of the game and equipment, regardless of the level-of-play argument. Plus, he's funnier than all of us, and more entertaining. Arrrr, I say!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  33. Jracer77

    Jracer77 Rookie

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    Nope, I'm not interested. You just provided a good reason as to why they've been mostly eliminated is all I'm saying.
     
  34. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    The results would certainly be interesting...!

    Thanks mate - you too. The 4.5 rating is like a fly in my soup! I haven't lived in the US since 2005 and can't play enough over there to budge it up.

    I've never lost a 4.5 singles over there but hope that some good wins against 5.0's this year in the 2 tournaments I played will be enough! I fear some crappy doubles results may keep it down though.

    I must admit I prefer the transparency of the system in the UK.
     
  35. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Actually, I think I've also provided a bunch of reasons why they need to bring them back (although I'm not gonna do it). Verifiers might help keep out the sandbaggers to some small extent at least, and clean up the bump process.

    They were eliminated because of money, not because their input didn't work. But they didn't anticipate the twisting (and yes, cheating) that has occurred since. Silly of them to underestimate the viciously competitive nature of Americans!:)
     
  36. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    BB and Mike Cottrill, when I have time this thxgiving weekend I'll put more thought into this and get back to you. I'm not trying to avoid the question, nor do I think my views would be stumped by your text. I realize that SDAs may not all share this exact same view. I'm pretty rusty, but a short explanation of the text Mike Cottrill brought up is that it was figurative. Just like the eternal hellfire burning Sodom and Gomorrah that could never be put out was figurative. It could not be put out, but it's not gonna keep burning once there's nothing left to burn. I'm not sure if I believe if scientists have actually found the location of sodom and gomorrah, and a big deposit of salt (i heard of this once...), but anyway there obviously isn't a city that is continuing to burn forever and ever.

    I'll also start a new thread during thxgiving break.... so sorry for the hijacked thread!
     
  37. LPShanet

    LPShanet Banned

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    Forget flies in your soup, that 4.5 rating is like a buffalo in your teacup. It's ludicrous. Let this be a lesson those "the computer is always right" folks. Or maybe the USTA has the HAL 9000. For reference, I've put some of the definitions we wrote when we created the NTRP below. They are what the levels are INTENDED to be.

    I'd guess you're more than just "starting" to master the use of power and spins and that you're not just "beginning to handle pace". In fact, by original definition, you should be a 6.0...but certainly no less than 5.5. Still, a 4.5 player might have to face you and try to win in order to justify even being a 4.5! Even without the absence, I'd guess it wasn't too accurate a couple of years ago either.

    Either way, good luck to you with your upcoming matches. You've done very well already. Now, I'm off to the courts for a little practice. All this talk has been keeping me from honing the game with which I so cruelly dissect any 2.5 level schoolgirl who is unfortunate enough to cross my path.



    4.5
    Starting to master the use of power and spins and beginning to handle pace, has sound footwork, can control depth of shots and is beginning to vary game plan according to opponents. Can hit first serves with power and accuracy and place the second serve. Tends to overhit on difficult shots. Aggressive net play is common in doubles.
    5.0
    Has good shot anticipation and frequently has an outstanding shot or exceptional consistency around which a game may be structured. Can regularly hit winners or force errors off of short balls and can put away volleys, can successfully execute lobs, drop shots, half volleys and overhead smashes and has good depth and spin on most second serves.
    5.5
    Has developed power and/or consistency as a major weapon. Can vary strategies and styles of play in a competitive situation and hit dependable shots in a stress situation.
    6.0
    Generally do not need NTRP ratings. Rankings or past rankings will speak for themselves. The 6.0 player has obtained a sectional and /or national ranking.
     
  38. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    I disagree about J011y making people laugh, but he is a good guy.
     
  39. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    LP,

    Ok, so now I know who you are. Jolly told me about you, I hope we will meet soon.

    Jolly is the kind of player who will get no respect. When he first showed up at Ike, 70 year old men, more than one, came up to me and tell me that they think that could beat him.
     
  40. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    You throw those off speed serve to watch my face contort with rage as I realized too late that the damned ball is not there.
     
  41. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Boy, I've got you duped! *kidding*

    You do have the unique perspective of someone who has actually hit with Jolly. I'm not in the place to look at his video and critique, but I do see inconsistencies with how he has presented his game and a perceived level of play that he has achieved. I look at results (I bet you've gathered that by now, hunh?)...and the general belief that you can't call yourself a 4.5 until you've beaten a 4.5.

    Absolutely agree that you can do the 'double' jump in ratings. Raiden is a good example of someone who may actually achieve this...his thread and video is on this sub-forum as well...don't know if you've had the chance to check it out.

    Moz put this much better than I...not only would Jolly get more matches and playing opportunities, but he'd see all different kinds of opponents and learn how to use his game to beat those opponents.

    We'll find out next week Moz!!! I do think the tournament wins will put you over the top...I'm crossing all fingers and toes for your bump up (not to mention hoping I won't get bumped down!!!).

    You know, I never had much of an issue with sandbagging until this recent mixed season...and personally, I think a live, *random* verifier who traveled out to random matches would be great!!!

    I know I sometimes point to the computer and say, there it is...however, I've seen very few instances where the computer got it wrong. If you play enough matches, you'll get a pretty accurate rating (barring any sandbagging and 'controlling' of matches). I still think, since it bases it ratings on the results of matches, that it is the best thing we've got. Even a live verifier may see someone in drill and give that person a specific rating, but that person may crumble and not play up to that skill level in an actual match setting. (If you look that up in the dictionary, it'll have a picture of Topaz! :( )
     
  42. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Yes sir, no it isn't a block. Jolly is at 3.0, he doesn't know the difference. He thinks every less than a full swing is a block.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  43. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    70 year old men? Come on, dennis. That's total disrespect.
     
  44. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Hate to say it, but they were 70 year old, maybe 60 something but Jolly knows about it. I'm not talking about the 60 something pro, Jolly has taken lessons from him.

    Full disclosure, now that they have seen him play, I think most have changed their minds.
     
  45. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Correct. I also enjoy seeing the "Damnit!" accompanied by an angry foot stomp.

    It is my meager attempt at revenge for when you school me in any type of volley drill.

    J
     
  46. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    These same people who tell you, to tell me, something that will help my game?

    J
     
  47. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Please privately e-mail me the tourney or name of 4.0 who beat or bagled me.

    I am very curious to see who it was.

    J
     
  48. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    So that is how I hurt my ankle, the foot stomping. Damnit!

    Schooling you in volley drills is easy, even a 3.0 can do it.

    I'm thinking of using my MBT with ankle wraps when I play. I'm so use to the MBTs that I think it my muscles have adapted to it. Worth a try. Worse case scenario, I break my ankle, that's not much of a difference from current.
     
  49. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Everybody tell me to tell you, even when you are standing next to me and them. I feel like im in a tweener high school WE network movie of the week.

    How many 60 -70 year old men at Ike, divide by two.
     
  50. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Soon the student will become the master. . .

    Or maybe not, but either way it will be fun.

    I am starting to grasp the concept that I am a big dude, and can actually cover a lot of court with a step and a reach.

    Like. . .all of it.

    Now we just need to implement phase II and actually accomplish something with that court coverage.

    J
     

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