What do you think of Jo11yroger's Forehand take back?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Mansewerz, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    Sorry Jo11y, but I've actually got to agree with some of the points...After Sup pointed it out..Alot of the guys on the pathways move incrediably rapidly!
    Especially the little kid and his dad with the scooter in the backhand video!

    Hopefully, their's a simple reason for this! :)
     
    #51
  2. SirBlend12

    SirBlend12 Semi-Pro

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    I love how people try to negate his playing abilities based on what he blatantly stated was a practice drill. I believe I saw in one thread somewhere on the board that Jo11y is actually a ~5.5? Not sure of it, but if he is, I can only assume that most of you are truly qualified to advise a 5.5.:roll:
     
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  3. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    Jolly is a super nice guy.. but 100% he is no 5.5. His record alone proves that.

    So its okay to post videos for constructive feedback, but no one is an authority... unless you tell me you can hit a 110mph forehand and 115mph serve easily.
     
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  4. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    LOL @ the cheetahs comment!
    Actually the bicycle is suspicious because I don't think he was pedaling yet somehow moving in a moderate speed, perhaps there was a wind propelling him :confused:
    Perhaps we can interview the walker and ask if he was enjoying the view or in fact power walking.

    But seriously, seriously... they obviously had a conversation that sounded like a normal conversation. And also the laughter :26-:27 sounded natural. Get better investigative skills
     
    #54
  5. Jonnyf

    Jonnyf Legend

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    What? I'm asking a question and pointing out something unusual about the videos.

    I'm not from the US, but as I understand it...5.5 is a very high level player. Someone who's going to be balanced and fluid whilst playing.
     
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  6. tennisfreak15347

    tennisfreak15347 Banned

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    guys, I'm pretty sure Jolly's video's aren't altered. the bicycle doesn't look like it's going too fast, and the laugh in the video sounds natural. even if J011y isnt a legit 5.5, he's pretty modest. I asked his NTRP once, and he claims " guys, I'm not really that good"
     
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  7. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    Probably the machine pumping out the idea of "5.5". Typical for forum posts and claims.

    He seems a legit 3.5-4.0. Honestly.

    This video and based on his USTA record and loses (who he lost to and win record) he's that rating. NTRP are heavily based on results.

    The video is pretty good to for a 3.5-4.0 messing around.

    Keep up the good work.
     
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  8. tennisfreak15347

    tennisfreak15347 Banned

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    ^^^^ by the way, just interested. where did you find his tennis record?
     
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  9. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    I know his real name.. met him in Miami Sony Ericsson (not to mention that his name was posted not to long ago on anothe thread- since deleted). So I can look up his record. As well as the opponents he lost to.

    All via USTA tennis link and so forth.
     
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  10. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Lol Sup id say thats a bit low, dont you think? If I were to guess, Id say 4.5, to possibly 5.0. Ive never seen much of him play besides these tiny little hitting clips, and I dont know his match record, but he does play Open tournaments and wants to play some nationals. These clips dont really give us a great idea.

    Also im not sure what videos some people are watching, but I didnt see anything that looked sped up or enhanced. I went back and tried to find this suggestion with people on some path or whatever and didnt even see anything like that except for a couple slow walkers and bikers. Considering Jolly is pretty nice and humble I dont see why anyone thinks he would fabricate anything, or lie.
     
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  11. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    He's most definitely not a 3.5. If he is, then I'm a 2.5.
     
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  12. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    No. 3.5-4.0 is certainly too low.
     
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  13. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    I totally 100% disagree.

    You dont get bageled and breadsticked in matches against 4.5's who dont even have close to a winning record and consider yourself close to 4.0 even. So I would say that range.

    Nothing wrong with that. You improve you get better. Just prove it on the court.

    3.5-4.0
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
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  14. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    I dont know his record so I cant really say I guess, ill take your word for it on that. But I dont see any way he is a 3.5. 4.0 would be the absolute lowest and he would probably be a strong 4.0. But again I dont know. He is pretty serious about his game and fitness, and seems to hit a fairly big ball, so Im still gunna go with 4.5 until I see results.
    Huh? Are you saying Im a "5.2"? Who said I was a 2.5? Lol. I can show you my results if you doubt im in the 5.5-6.0 range.
     
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  15. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    The guy hits pretty consistently with depth. Perhaps he has some major defect with his serve in match play or something. I've seen him serve. He hits with pace but I can see him double faulting quite a bit.
     
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  16. Kokopelli

    Kokopelli Rookie

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    I don't see anything that is suspiciously sped up on the video clips. I know Jolly and he's a good kid - not the that would enhance anything to improve his internet status. Jolly has no need to do this - he is way above this!!!

    As for his rating, I'd leave that to you guys, the experts!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
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  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    A beginner who has never picked up a racquet could do the same. Doesn't mean squat. You should know this. I find it odd, you think a young 4.5-5.0 could take Andy Lake (the number 1 player in the nation in the 30's, and someone who has won several national championships,) and put Jolly in the same NTRP rating as him. No disrespect to jolly, but I don't think so. Lake is a 5.5, and you dissed him, even knowing all the aforementioned saying a young 4.5-5.0 could take him. And now based on these short clips you are saying Jolly is in his same level???? excuse me, but i need to go snort the muffler on this 18 wheeler passing by.
     
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  18. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    You'll have to trust me or maybe Jolly can enlighten us.

    Sorry about the last post. So many peeps posting. I thought you said that when it was Storm. I don't know Storms record. Alas.. it was taken down.

    Though you can be a 5.2easily with your record.
     
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  19. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    I don't think people realize how broad 4.5 range is. For the average person it takes a long time for someone to improve from a 4.5+ to a 5.0.
     
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  20. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    LOL Sup2Dresq is busting everybody's chops guys. He's just having a laugh.
     
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  21. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Gotta agree...I'm a 3.5 (and a weak one at that) and I entered an Open, got a 3.0 as my first match, beat her handily, and ended up ranked in Open singles in my section.

    Which really, is a complete and utter joke.

    Nationals and Opens are 'open' to everyone...there is no specific rating needed to enter. Which is a whole different thread, that's actually been done...so, anyway, yeah, just saying, just because someone plays in the tournament doesn't speak to their rating.

    Only results do that.
     
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  22. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Yes, I do understand that any player can play an "Open" tournament, obviously. I play them. The point of course is that he, according to my understanding from reading on here, plays open tournaments regularly, and aspires to play nationals. Considering I dont possess match results for Jolly, taking those facts into consideration makes one assume, or guess, with some amount of confidence that a rating of 3.5 is considerably low for him. My guess is that he is a 4.5. Sup stated that he plays 4.5 players as well. Im not sure what you meant about Andy Lake in your post. I do not know, or have never seen Andy Lake play so I have no idea how he plays and would never make a statement that a "4.5 to 5.0 would beat him". Based on these short clips, which I stated are difficult to judge anyone by, as you yourself have demonstatred with other players, such as Val Wilder, I would guess he could be a 4.5. But again I really have no idea. Match and tournament results are the only solid thing any of us can rate someone with.
    Haha yeah its ok, I figured thats what it was about. However, there is really no way I can be a 5.2 considering I win easily in 5.0 singles matches over the last 3 years, and have lost only once (4&4) when serving underhanded, against a player who himself is about a 5.5.
     
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  23. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Exactly.


    I think he meant as in the lta rating? Though, 5.2 would be way too low (or high, actually, as lta ratings are lower as you get better) for you.
     
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  24. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    In the same thread I brought up Wilder, I also mentioned Lake. You made issue of their respective ages, and said a young 4.5-5.0 could beat those guys. Like I said earlier in this thread, and in those>>> I don't think so, as I have seen them both destroy 5.0's. Additionally, you are now basically saying Jolly and Wilder/Lake all have the same NTRP. Again, no disrespect to Jolly>>> but I don't think so. I also don't think those FH's are 110.

    <<<<back to smoking that muffler>>>>
     
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  25. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    You apparently must be smoking a muffler. OR, you misread what I wrote in that (and this) thread completely. I never made any comment about Andy Lake, much less "dissed" him, because I do not know him nor have I even seen him play. I did however make some comments on Val Wilder; yes. I do not remember all that was said of course, but Im almost confident that I wouldnt have said a young 4.5 could beat Val Wilder. If I did then I was just mistaken at the time and misjudged Val's playing from his video, which clearly, from my videos, to his, to Jolly's can be difficult to judge. I remember saying that I thought a good young 5.0 or college player could possibly beat Val, and Im going to stick to it, although Im sure with Vals experience and match toughness he would win almost all the time. The issue was that as people age, they cant necessarily, or usually, be called the same rating as when they were 20 years younger. Val doesnt hit a big ball and he has got to be considerably slower than a fast young player. You are even misrepresenting what Ive said in THIS thread, since I have numerously stated that I am merely GUESSING Jolly's ntrp on some stupid video clips, and my guess is still a 4.5. I did not say Jolly was necessarily a 5.0, much less a 5.5, and again considering what Ive read about him on here and such I thought there could be a possibility of him being a 5.0 level player. I do not have any data on Jolly's tournaments and therefore I cannot say what his NTRP is, and nobody else can either without that, and can only make a guess as I have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
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  26. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, she is a friend of mine, and does have really nice strokes.

    J
     
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  27. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I don't have an NTRP. I lose to everyone, practice court hero.

    J
     
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  28. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    TonLars, when did you switch from the Flexpoint Radical os's?
     
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  29. tennisfreak15347

    tennisfreak15347 Banned

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    disregarding the discussion over NTRP ratings, great videos, jolly. more videos are always welcome :).
     
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  30. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    About a week ago! Has definitely taken some getting used to, since its a pretty drastic change. 107 to 95 in head size, and like 11 oz to 12 in weight, and quite a bit more head light now in balance. I played rather poorly for a few days lately but am starting to get used to the racquet and im liking the control alot. Im playing more smooth letting the racquet do the work rather than swiningly so hard with the flexpoint os, and that has helped. I was getting very frustrated with playing with the yonex at first since I was missing offensive shots, and mishitting some shots, but once I started to just try to play smooth and consistent Ive gotten accustomed to the racquet and I feel like Im playing offense better. I think Ive sacrificed some overall power with the switch but im going to gain control, and maybe a little heavier ball on the ground by staying smooth (easier to get pace when letting the racquet create the power if that makes sense), and maybe a little pop to the serve with the added weight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
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  31. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Oh I know the feeling. With my ntour, I have to do more work. But the fischer feels much better and smoother. Plus way more stability with volleys (I love volleying if you didn't know, just gotta get better at them :D )
     
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  32. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    well, I'm trying to feel what you are feeling.

    I don't think so. You commented on Wilder based on the video I provided. Then, after I posted his accomplishments, you still were saying the same thing. Same goes for Lake. And, it doesn't matter that you know him or not, or have seen him hit or not. In fact, you even said Lake was not a 5.5 because of his age.

    Really??? So a 50 year old, goes and plays an open tournament. He beats everyone on the way to winning the championships. Every player has a NTRP rating of 5.0 +, and includes 15, 20, 25 year olds. But because this guy is older, he is not a 5.0??????

    And you know this???? How???? have you played him, or seen him play live???? You would consider a serve near 120 "not big"??? Interesting.
     
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  33. Rui

    Rui Rookie

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    Okay, Jolly, I've seen your backhand slice clip. Is it your habit to let the ball drop like that for your slice?
     
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  34. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Wow, didnt realize you were like this. Yes, I am still saying what I said even now considering Val; I said so in this thread too. Disagree if you want, but I believe that a high, young, or college playing 5.0 player on any given Sunday could beat Val. At the very least, they would likely have great points and possibly close scores often. You are correct that I have never seen Val play, and I am simply making a judgement of him based on the video you posted, and based on his age. Not only his age, but a few of his results. I can show you what I mean concerning results if you insist on continuing to argue about this. However, the same discussion does NOT go for Lake, again. I did not say what you are saying I said about him. I briefly considered trying to find the thread and the posts to show you, but this is just rediculous and I dont think I have the need to do so... so ill leave the burden of proof of that with you to dig that up. If its indeed true, then I will apologize and admit my mistake. Most likely, you just misread something or got it out of context, because I dont know Andy Lake whatsoever and do not remember making any judgement on him. Im sure he is a 5.5 or whatever you say he is based on his ranking; it makes sense to me.

    NTRP is what it is, and if Val is winning and doing what you say he is then Im sure he is about a 5.5 player. The point I made, and tried to make now although not specific enough for you since youre misreading everything I say, is that if he was a 6.0 or 6.5 when he was much younger, he may not, and in other cases others usually would not, be that same rating. Theyre slower and weaker. Would you seriously call Val a 6.0 or 6.5 or whatever? Based on the video I would confidently say he is definitely not. Based on results he is amazing for his age group but he is not on par with good 5.5 to 6.0 players
     
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  35. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Someone else may have said that, but it certainly wasn't me. I don't have the creds.

    J
     
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  36. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Thanks man, I will put them up as Vimeo allows me.

    And I will tell you how my tournament playing goes in 09, hopefully I will be able to put up some respectable results. As sup can tell you, I only played a handful this year and got clobbered by everyone who figured out how to put their shoes on.

    Bustin my tail, trying to fix up a bunch of things with my game, so hopefully the video will provide some good documentation.

    J
     
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  37. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    No, my hitting partner was off the court and that ball bounced at about the service T, while I was camped behind the baseline, so it was comming very slowly and I decided to lay into it with a heavy slice.

    The sequence of pics came out really really well, and I thought it looked cool, so I posted it up, and everyone saw fit to tell me that my slice sucked and wasn't nearly as good as Djokovics.

    J
     
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  38. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    Wait, how'd you do this year jo11y
     
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  39. Rui

    Rui Rookie

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    Okay. So you're really normal. :)
     
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  40. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Tony,
    No disrespect, but your signature say NTRP 6.0. However the USTA has you as a 5.0. You know, NTRP is was it is ..
    Now, maybe I should go watch him hit with Knowles and maybe take a few clips lol..
    Most of the college kids do not have the mental strength to take him.. I do know a ex Div I player much younger than him and it took him a long time to take a practice match off of him. And this much younger player was top 400 ATP doubles at one time.. Don’t under estimate the old man. Oh, and they have him at 5.5 as well.
     
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  41. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Im sure Ive explained this to you before, if not I have explained it a dozen times to others. My NTRP rating is based on the league I play in: 5.0. There are not enough good players for a 5.5 league here as may be the case in other tennis hotbed states. I enjoy playing and competing at this game a great deal, and I enjoy being on a team with some friends, but mainly I think of it as getting a scheduled practice match in from the league. I never even have close 5.0 matches outside of the other 5.5 players I play in the league, or when I served underhanded due to an injury for a stint. My rating is based on tournament results and ability, and is about a 5.5-6.0. Ive been bumped and close to getting bumped out of the 5.0 league every year but the USTA crew puts me and some others back in so we can represent our section decently (we are in fact a weaker section due to our location/climate).

    I say Val is a 5.5 player and I say a good young college player, maybe a strong 5.0, could potentially beat a player like Val on a given day. How is that unreasonable? He has beaten a player in his age group with more difficulty than I have had (common opponent), he is relatively old and does not move as fast, does not hit a big groundstroke, so my point of him no longer being a 6.0 or 6.5 makes sense does it not? He is a great player; Im sure he can beat college players and wins Open tournaments but I would not say he is better than a 5.5 rating and could go beat ranked Division 1 players or blaze the Futures circuit at his age. The above is all Ive ever been saying, and we are entitled to opinions I guess outside of the concrete results
     
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  42. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    I only played 4 tournaments this year, twice I lost to my friend and I got thumped by 2 other guys.

    I make no excuses, but I can't wait to play those other two guys again.

    Oh and I had to withdraw from one and they kept my mother *&^$*$ entry fee of $95. Because my dumb ass didn't bother to look up the dates when the tourney was scheduled and see that it was during the week instead of over the weekend.

    The last 2 I entered were both cancelled by the director, so I pretty much gave up on 08. I will play the national in December and then go full steam into 09.

    I will keep you posted as I play in 09.

    J
     
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  43. Sup2Dresq

    Sup2Dresq Hall of Fame

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    Hey Tony,

    I got your email, but my response keeps getting bounced back. If you are on AOL IM, my screen name is the same as my email address: Sup2dresq@aim.com

    Thanks
    Sup
     
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  44. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I think both you and Drak have points. Val is the typical former pro who is actually a very difficult opponent to play due to his experience. If we're talking about a D1 player who's never played him before, I'd definitely give Val the edge. This is not to say that the D1 player is bad, but it's more like the D1 player just doesn't play someone like Val every day. They are normally accustomed to players like themselves.


    Val is very seasoned, and extremely tough to play against. I don't even have to see him play to know that he would be extremely difficult to play against, as he knows how to win without hitting huge balls all the time (very typical of former pros). A D1 player would struggle simply due to the consistency and placement, along with the firepower he brings (he may be older, but guys around his age can still bring the heat). Val was an ATP pro for a reason.


    However, if the D1 player has had experience playing against Val, and knows how to play against him (as in, they know what type of gameplan to use), then I think the D1 player would win a few times simply due to sheer athleticism. When you are younger, there are things you can do simply because your body is in it's peak physical condition.


    All in all, it would depend on the situation, the surface, etc.
     
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  45. Mansewerz

    Mansewerz Legend

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    $95?!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be so pissed..........................Was there a deadline for withdrawals?
     
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  46. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

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    Woah, hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves.

    I am certainly not normal :)

    I have been working hard on the slice for the past year and a half. It is still a fairly new shot to me, and I am getting almost frigteningly good at hitting it, though I am still inconsistent.

    I struggle on the eye and shoulder high ones, but I have a 2 hander, so I can just thump those.

    In matchplay I mainly slice when I can be very aggressive with it, or on very low balls, otherwise I just use the 2 hander.

    In practice I slice a lot because I want to get better with it, and become more versatile.

    J
     
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  47. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

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    Yes you have explained your rating before. I was just responding to your statement NTRP is what it is. You need to remember Val plays on many surfaces too. That individual you mention, he beat handily on grass. The other on clay was with a bum knee. How do you know he does not have power? Did you talk to your friend? His game is not power and the same goes for many top players. He has so many spins. He is not going to blow a 120 serve, but he will put you into the fence out wide. How do you know he does not have power? Oh, and I have seen this other player who has about 6% body fat and built like a tank grab his side after a long rally.. While he is fresh as a daisy.. I’m sure he has lost a ½ step or so.. A 5.0 beat him? Not when he is healthy IMO.
     
    #97
  48. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I didn't ask, I am pissed at that whole club. They claimed to have a red clay tourney, and I ended up having to play on mud mixed with parking lot gravel with a net slung across it. I proceded to lose 0 and 2.

    The only reason I entered is because I really wanted to play on grass.

    I kind of want to go back there for revenge, and I kind of don't ever want to set foot in there again.

    J
     
    #98
  49. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    I think a strong D1 player (5.5) could beat Val if he has had experience playing against Val before. From my own experience (from watching USTA matches), many former pros beat up on younger guys simply due to their experience and their superior game plan, not because they blow them off the court (although I have seen this before). The younger guys typically like to play a game centered around power, which plays right into the hands of a player like Val.


    However, if the D1 player KNOWS that he can't overwhelm Val with power, I think he stands a pretty good chance of winning a match or two, simply due to sheer athleticism. This is of course, if the D1 player knows what kind of gameplan to use.
     
    #99
  50. Mike Cottrill

    Mike Cottrill Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,626
    I agree as stated above in my post to Tony. Gave and example.. It took a long time for him to do it, he was not happy and the next time they played.. well, lets say he took the practice match serious. Years latter they still hit and he does win some.
     

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