What does it take to play in Ivy Leauge Schools?

Discussion in 'College Tennis Talk' started by MaratSafin_fan, Mar 20, 2012.

  1. MaratSafin_fan

    MaratSafin_fan Rookie

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    For example, you want to play for Harvard or Princeton. What does it take?
    Do you need to have the perfect grades even if you will be presumed to the team?
    What kind of results do you need for playing in Ivy Leauge? Whould good results against the best players in your country be good or do you have to have big tournaments wins like ITF?
    What kind of demands is it for scholarship or full scholarship?

    Please share info about this!

    Thanks.
     
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  2. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    Grades and test scores (SAT, ACT, AP) are a big part of Ivy League + a very strong tennis results (strong JR ranking, good results, etc.)

    If you really want to dig into the tennis stats of the players at these schools, check their website athletic profiles; that will give you a good clue what one would need to do to get on the team. As for school results, you can find out from the counselors.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  3. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    Ivy League schools do not offer athletic scholarship.

    Scholarships for these schools are financial need-based.
    If you are not qualified for financial aid, tuition, room and board, etc cost ~ $50,000 (US dollars) per year.

    Check the college websites, they always are clearly written.

    For NON-US students, I do think colleges may have restriction on financial aid/scholarship from schools.
    I could be wrong so please check their websites if that applied to your case.
     
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  4. PennAlum

    PennAlum Rookie

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    Columbia is $60K now, most are $55-60K. You need to be national ranked 170 or so, better to be top 125. Ivy League tennis is strong with 1 or 2 foreigners per team. Harvard is currently ranked #16 nationally. Strong academics is a prerequisite, SAT's above 2000 generally, some leeway dependent on how strong your tennis is and the coaches relationship with the admissions office at their respective school. Some coaches can get almost anyone in it seems.
     
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  5. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    Being able to spell league may be a start. Just sayin.
     
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  6. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

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    I'm convinced some posts are just a spoof.
     
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  7. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Kids today grew up with spell check. None of them can spell.
     
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  8. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Great question. I have been following this for three years now due to the fact that parents really talk, and not about their own kids.

    First, being an athlete there is really being a student first, except maybe for the helmet sports.
    There are none of the benefits that you would receive at other D1 schools such as priority with class selection.

    Second, grades, SAT subject test scores, Honors, AP classes, and the SATs factor heavily into going to these schools.
    This year's recruiting class, there were quite a few high ranked kids who wanted to go to the IVY's
    and their own academic package was not high enough.
    Surprising, you would think the coach could pull a kid through, but most of the time they can't.
    Other kids, where they were ranked lower, but were real standouts academically got in.

    Folks are always saying that the kids don't want to play in a cold climate, indoor bubble with a ton of work, and so they don't go to the IVY's.
    But, I think it plays both ways, and the IVYS are very selective in regards to the academics.

    Good luck, and there are lots of opportunities to play college tennis out there if you are open minded.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
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  9. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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  10. Mitch Bridge

    Mitch Bridge Rookie

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    Almost all A's-adjusted 3.9-and 2000 on the SAT seems to be the formula if the coach really wants you. I coach a player at Princeton, and he is at the top academically, but the coach wouldn't consider him at 150 nationally. We improved his ranking to top 50, and the coach was all over him. Harvard, Princeton, Yale are a little tougher most years, but it is cyclical. Last year Cornell won the Ivy League.
     
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  11. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    My youngest daughter isn't at one of the Ivy League schools, she is a two sport captain (neither being tennis) at another hard-to-get-into institute just down the street from Harvard, MIT. As with the Ivy League schools, MIT only offers need-based scholarships, besides, most of the sports there are DIII. Getting in doesn't require straight A's, and she did get a B both semesters of AP Calc BC when she was a junior, although she followed that up with an A in both Multivariable Calc and Differential Equations taught by the local community college at her high school during her senior year. To get into an Ivy-level school you pretty much need all parts of your SATs to be at least 700, most also require SAT subject tests (and of course, high scores), and personal interviews.

    All the top schools get tons of qualified applicants, and participation in activities such as sports are one way of making yourself stand out from other applicants. When my daughter took the community college classes, every one of the twelve kids in those classes applied to MIT, every one had grades and scores similar to or better than hers, and she was the only one admitted. Being a multi-sport athlete, belonging to different school clubs, and having an amazing work experience that I'm not allowed to talk about all contributed to getting her in. And from what we've been told by an admissions officer at an Ivy, the top schools get so many qualified applicants that at some point they just start randomly selecting. Then when you get in you get the privilege of giving them 50+ thousand a year. At least she has a really good job lined up.
     
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  12. MTChong

    MTChong Professional

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    I didn't play tennis at one, but I can tell you (from what I heard while attending one) that the requirements in terms of academics can be relaxed either moderately or extremely depending on what sport you're going in for and to what degree the coach wants you in the program.

    So yes, it's true that the Ivy League schools cannot give out athletic scholarships, but they can certainly lower their standards to let you in if you're competent enough in whatever sport you play. The upside is that if you manage to get in, there's no pressure to continue playing tennis (or whatever sport that may be) and you can focus on your studies if you decide against playing. I knew some guys that did this, and I think it served them very well in terms of setting them up with jobs post-grad.
     
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  13. beernutz

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    That may be, but it doesn't say much for their character.
     
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  14. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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  15. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Not necessarily true.

    If you look at the top Ivies, there are many blue chips, 5 stars, alot of 4 & 3 stars.
    Read the nytimes article previously posted by Misterbill, it explains the flexibility the coaches have getting in kids who have low academics.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/sp...=2&ref=sports#
     
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  16. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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  17. OriginalHockeytowner

    OriginalHockeytowner Rookie

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    Deep pockets!
     
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  18. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Tennisshacker, I usually agree with you, but the low academics refers to the helmet sports ( football, ice hockey and lacrosse).

    My question is does the Ivys take a B student for tennis?
     
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  19. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Hard to answer that, when my child was being recruited by Cornell, the coach at the time gave us the impression that things could be worked out. Even Middlebury, (equally high requirements), coach also said same thing.
     
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  20. MTChong

    MTChong Professional

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    Treeman10, I didn't say it's true for all athletes; I said for some.

    Before you get to defensive, I think you're mischaracterizing my post and partly, that's my fault as it was open to misinterpretation. When I said they can lower standards if you're competent enough, it doesn't mean that everyone that is competent enough will get in with lowered standards. I meant to say that if a coach really wants you, they can give a heads up to the admissions committee and they'll certainly take note of that when they consider whether or not to admit a student.

    I heard similar things from the mouths of varsity athletes and even people who worked with the admissions committee as well. Some sports were allotted a 'quota' of sorts -- a number of students they can get in with relaxed standards.

    To be fair, I think if the schools just offered athletic scholarships it'd help everyone out. Because these schools don't, some student-athletes are stigmatized regardless of whether they actually were accepted with lower standards because nobody has any way of knowing so they all assume that the student is just a dumb jock.

    I don't know that it speaks to their character or not. They were offered admittance to the school without any conditions on what it takes to stay there. Perhaps once students started playing, they found that it was too much work or that the system wasn't a good fit after all. Ultimately it is the student's decision and shouldn't reflect one way or another on his/her character, and I think it's unfair to say otherwise without knowing the specific circumstances. I knew a student who played football and had an injury; he was sidelined for awhile could have gone back, but he decided to stop playing and focus on his studies. Honestly, I think it was a good move; it's not like he was going to turn pro.
     
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  21. MTChong

    MTChong Professional

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    I don't know that any of us can answer your question definitively unless we are/were in that situation or personally knew someone in the same situation. Mostly, we can only speak to generalizations about standards being lowered for athletes (and even then, not all).

    Ultimately, there are so many factors that play into college admissions that it's hard to say whether or not a B student would be admitted. For instance, if said B student is a highly-coveted tennis recruit on track to turn professional in the future and practices countless hours a day, I'm sure even the admissions committee, with or without special word from a coach, would take note of the enormous time demands of training to be a professional and take it into consideration when reviewing the student's application.

    EDIT: Treeman's response seems to indicate that at least at some of these 'elite' private schools, tennis is not one of the sports that gets special attention from the adcoms.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2012
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  22. treeman10

    treeman10 Semi-Pro

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  23. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Thanks for trying to answer the question.

    And my thoughts on a junior who is on track or desirous of turning a pro, I can't think of a worse place to be than the IVYs. I know that some have done it, well actually I only know one. But, if I had a junior who really wanted to be a pro, and therefore had prior, proven results for that goal, I think Stanford or Va would be a better option to reach that goal.
     
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  24. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Excellent point. Thanks.
     
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  25. TheCanadian

    TheCanadian Semi-Pro

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    Quick question: let's say I'm one of the top juniors in the country who wants to go to Harvard, would I get a needs-based financial aid that would effectively mean that I'll study for free?
     
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  26. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    Ivy needs-based scholarships are based on need. They are not given to athletes as substitutes for athletic scholarships.

    The information provided on Ivies' websites about academics, athletics, activities, and finaid is comprehensive and clear.......... and probably would give you more confidence that you are receiving accurate information than what I or any other anonymous poster might say on a message board
     
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  27. TheCanadian

    TheCanadian Semi-Pro

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    In that case any top junior who doesn't want, or can't, spend 60K for a ridiculously overpriced education should go somewhere else.
     
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  28. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    No.

    Any applicant who can't spend 60K....according to the objective standards each Ivy sets....gets need-based assistance.

    I don't know you from Adam, of course, but I am forming an opinion that Harvard is probably not well-suited for you.
     
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  29. TheCanadian

    TheCanadian Semi-Pro

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    If you don't know me from Adam, I'd refrain from making personal comments.

    I'm not trying to get a scholarship but my son might try some day. I have a friend and hitting partner now at a good Div. I school on a full scholarship studying mechanical engineering, I don't know what he would've gained by going to Harvard.
     
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  30. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I don't think Harvard would be well-suited for people or families who hold the quoted opinion.

    Not saying the quoted opinion is right or wrong. But if a person or family thinks Harvard provides a "ridiculously overpriced" education, I can't figure out why someone would want to entrust a family member to an institution that does business like that
     
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  31. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Lots of good suggestions for avoiding student debt
    ( next new line of bankruptcy in the pipeline).
    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/07/business/la-fi-student-loan-bankruptcy-20120208


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adria...sis-_b_1572482.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

    Student Loan Debt: Crisis or Overblown Hype?
    Posted: 06/06/2012 9:35 am

    Economists have long used the term "bubble" to describe a dangerous financial trend that threatens the health of a particular industry or economy, often ending with disastrous effects if the bubble collapses or "pops."

    Bubbles date back centuries, with the first on record occurring in 1634 in Holland, where the tulip market collapsed, leading to major losses from hundreds of speculators. Over the course of history, bubbles have popped and swallowed major economies, just as the real estate collapse of the mid-2000s did to the U.S. economy.

    Student Loan Debt Bubble

    Today, according to the front-page of every major national news outlet, and every political pundit and presidential candidate, the next bubble threatening millions of Americans is the overwhelming financial burden of student loan debt. And, if true, this financial crisis is impacting not only college students, but also their parents and grandparents who co-signed on the loans for them.

    So, just how serious is the looming student loan bubble?

    Student Loans: What the Numbers Say

    The Federal Reserve Bank of New York (FRBNY) recently released a study on student loan debt by researchers Meta Brown, Andrew Haughwout, Donghoon Lee, and Wilbert van der Klaauw. In it, the FRBNY emphasizes the growing problem looming on the student loan front with these startling results:
    Of the 241 million people in the United States who have a credit report with Equifax, approximately 15.4% -- or 37 million -- hold outstanding student loan debt.
    The average outstanding student loan balance per borrower is $23,300. About one-quarter of borrowers owe more than $28,000; about 10% of borrowers owe more than $54,000. The proportion of borrowers who owe more than $100,000 is 3.1%, and 0.45% of borrowers, or 167,000 people, owe more than $200,000.
    Borrowers between the ages of thirty and thirty-nine have the highest average outstanding student loan balances, at $28,500, followed by borrowers between the ages of forty and forty-nine, whose average outstanding balance is $26,000.
    About 27% of the borrowers have past due balances, while the adjusted proportion of outstanding student loan balances that are delinquent equals 21%.
    1T Day: Student Loan Debt Hits $1 Trillion

    To make matters worse, financial pundits dubbed April 25, 2012 as "1T Day," meaning the total amount of student loan debt hit the $1 trillion mark. Back in 2010, the amount of U.S. student loan debt surpassed the total amount of credit card debt, and it continues to grow.

    The media spotlight on student loan debt has grown more pervasive amidst the ongoing Occupy Wall Street social advocacy movement, even triggering an offshoot called Occupy Student Debt.

    Federal Student Loan Rates to Double

    More recently, that spotlight has focused on legislation in Congress to keep federally backed student loan interest rates at the current level of 3.4%.

    Under federal law, the interest rates on federal student loans are set to double from 3.4% to 6.8% in July. This sounds shocking until you realize the rate increase would only affect new loans. If Congress doesn't stop the increase, the rate hike will end up costing the average federal student loan borrower an additional $6 a month. Granted, $6 a month can add up over the life of the loan, but is it so extreme that it warrants the "crisis" label? In reality, the hype around student loan debt may have more to do with politics than alleviating the student loan debt burden.

    If Congress can't agree on how to pay for the continued rate cut on federal student loans -- a dollar cost that Congress pegs at about $6 billion -- the rates will double to 6.8% come July. Republicans want to pay for the 3.4% rate by taking the money out the government's health care insurance fund. Democrats want to pay the $6 billion offset by hiking taxes on wealthier Americans.

    Avoiding the Student Loan Debt Trap

    While Congress tangles over the offset funding issue, what can consumers do to alleviate their exposure to any student loan bubble? The good news: there are options that proactive consumers can take to avoid falling into the student loan debt trap.

    If you start early and plan ahead, while your children are still young, you may be able to leverage college savings programs that offer tax-free savings along with solid asset growth potential:
    529 College Savings Plans -- Similar to a 401k plan for retirement, 529 plans allow families to save money (tax free) for college.
    529 Tuition Savings Plans -- Similar to the 529 plan, but much more limiting, these plans are also administered by the states and allow a family to invest for a fixed tuition rate. This option only covers tuition and will limit the student to specific schools, so make sure you research or consult with an adviser to make sure you make the right choice.
    Coverdell Education Savings Account -- Similar to a Roth IRA, this option allows families to deposit funds into a tax-deferred account. As long as the money is used to pay for college, there are no tax liabilities for withdrawals. However, the plan is subject to income limits but it allows more flexibility in paying for practically any education related costs.
    If time is short, and you have a child nearing, or already in college, you may be able to curb costs by examining financing options that go beyond student loans, including:

    Free Money. Via public and private resources, there are millions of dollars available to students in the form of scholarships and grants that, unlike loans, do not have to be paid back. While there are qualifications that have to be met, most are highly doable. The key is to apply early, and often --and don't limit yourself to just one option. Visit www.fafsa.ed.gov to apply for federal and state grants through FAFSA, and check out Fastweb's scholarship database, a great place to start your scholarship search.
    Less Expensive Schools. Ivy League schools don't have a monopoly on a great education. To keep costs down, start at a state or junior college, earn superior grades, keep saving money, and after two years, consider transferring to the college you had your heart set on.
    Leverage Government Help. Students steering a course toward public service can, after legislation passed in Congress in 2010, cap total student loan payments at 10 years. As long as public service graduates have a steady repayment record, they are eligible to have the rest of their loan forgiven. Graduates of all types can also apply to have the government cap monthly payments at 15% of discretionary income, considerably easing the monthly student loan payment burden.
    If you've exhausted all options and student loans are the only option left, aim to minimize the total cost by choosing a more affordable, low fixed-rate federal student loan. Private student loans often come with variable interest rates, and don't carry the additional perks like income-based repayment and public service loan forgiveness options that are included under federal student loans.

    If you analyze your options and are smart about the financial choices you make, you won't fall victim to the growing student loan debt problem.

    As the old adage goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and nowhere is that adage more appropriate than it is right now in the student loan financing market.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
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  32. MeggieTennisGal

    MeggieTennisGal New User

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    What about Stanford? I think that it is at least as academically competitive as the top Ivies? Being in a warm climate, perhaps it has a better program? I have a little "up and coming", but have a lot more confidence in her academics than in her tennis at present. Stanford and the Ivies are out of the question for us financially, but if her tennis could help get her in ...
     
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  33. Staidhup

    Staidhup New User

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    Stanford is a powerhouse both on the court and in the class room as in competitive. Unless one has a 3.9 GPA, solid ACT's and SAT scores on top of a 5 star tennis game chances are slim to none they would get a look. What one must understand is that all undergraduate schools provide the same basic curriculum, the only difference is the credentials and accomplishments of the individual teachers. The key issue, how hard is one willing to work and push themselves. Undergrad education is not what it once was, regardless of the institution. Most Ivy grads however do go on to grad school.
     
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  34. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    You could say that tennis is OK at Stanford for women. Multiple national championships, multiple individual and doubles champions, dozens of All Americans. Longest home winning streak in the history of the NCAA. They are OK.
     
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  35. Misterbill

    Misterbill Semi-Pro

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    I don't think any family should conclude that the Ivies are out of the question financially. If a family satisfies the requirements, the need-based aid is very generous.

    Tennis, or any sport, can be the tipping point between acceptance and rejection at the Ivies, if a coach is willing to cash in any of his/her available chits at the admissions office for a prospective student-athlete. Athletics won't help with need-based aid.

    Stanford offers athletic scholarships
     
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  36. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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  37. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    as I pointed out...they are OK :wink:
     
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  38. MeggieTennisGal

    MeggieTennisGal New User

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    Thank you so much, all of you, for the excellent and very knowledgeable feedback!! I don't want to load the kiddo down with too many expectations at present, but perhaps in a year or two she might want to set herself some worthy goals ...
     
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  39. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ...............
     
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  40. TheCanadian

    TheCanadian Semi-Pro

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    So women get scholarships at Stanford but men don't?
     
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  41. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    The men don't have the scholarships the women do, so the incoming players don't get offered much if anything, they have to earn it going forward. Getting into the school is their primary reward initially. That is at the top schools. Also remember not every school is fully funded for 4.5 boys scholarships either. Like Vanderbilt, it has either 2 or none, but it is low, many schools in similiar situation. They don't all offer the max of 4.5. Reality of men's tennis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
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