What does "Plow Through" actually mean...

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by AmeliasDad, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. AmeliasDad

    AmeliasDad Banned

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    Can someone give a definition what plow through means- I 'm not sure I've eve felt what I would describe as plow through when playing tennis or maybe I have w/out knowing it.
     
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  2. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    i know it as when a frame is too heavy and you just "plow through" the ball, not hit it a fluidity
    its hard to explain
     
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  3. bcast66

    bcast66 Rookie

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    i think of it like this. you swing at a ball and the racquet somehow does the work making it feel effortless.
     
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  4. iplaybetter

    iplaybetter Hall of Fame

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    behind you, but i have to be somewhere else by the
    i would like to add that i have been told it is bad
     
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  5. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    Plowthrough refers to the racket's ability to push the ball around - the less ball impacts affect the frame's path, the more it feels as if the racket plows through the ball.

    It certainly is a good trait.
     
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  6. kanjii

    kanjii Semi-Pro

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    Picture if you will an 18 wheel semi truck going head to head with a very small vehicle...at point of impact that bad boy 18 wheeler just plows through the vehicle as if it was nothing...that my friend is the feeling you get with your PDRs :)
     
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  7. pow

    pow Hall of Fame

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    It's the feeling of a racquet crushing the ball on impact, the racquets that had that feeling for me were the nsix-one 95, tour 90, and Redondo mid. Feel the weight crush the ball, after the first hit, plowing the ball was the first thought that came to my head.
     
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  8. dakels

    dakels Rookie

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    If you look at these high speed videos of fed, you can see how much deflection the ball can cause in slow motion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNPaZj4yn00

    Plow through is helped greatly by CONTACT POINT, racquet weight, weight placement, racquet specs, strings, stringing, but most important factor is your swing and your own weight behind the ball. These are all examples of Fed using one of the heaviest racquets known for it's plow through ability, yet you see different reactions every time. Swing is a huge factor, but in general, heavy racquets with good flex tend to help drive through balls better as compared to light ones with more instability.

    While we are talking about plow through with a racquet here, in general it is good to learn and understand this trait as an ability to help reflect power and spin (heavy shots).
     
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  9. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    In a word; momentum.
     
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  10. johnathan smith

    johnathan smith Rookie

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    you guys are doing a great job in explaining, but the best way to understand what ploe through is in my opinion is to go hit with a K Factor 6.1 (16x18, or 18x20)
    You will then understand....
     
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  11. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    Wow, way to try to end that with an epic statement, but personally, I don't think the K95 has any "plow through" effect at all against the caliber of players I generally hit with. By the way, I decided to rip your post apart to look for spelling and grammatical errors.

    I would disagree with the comments on weight being the main factor, it really depends a lot on who you're playing. For instance, if my coach bombs his 139 MPH serve down the T, my racquet is going to be battered around unless I hit the sweet spot just perfect, no matter how heavy it is. (unless I'm playing with a brick ;))
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2008
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  12. johnathan smith

    johnathan smith Rookie

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    That's real nice, but for us normal folk who don't practice with the likes of Monfils and Safin all day(BS), the feeling of the K-factor 6.1 (or the NCODE/HPS) whatever version really offers a stable response. The 6.1 frames weight, plus stiffness offers a substantial plow through effect on the ball. It's an easy way to experiance it first hand if you are new to the sport. By the way, I do not use Wilson frames at all.
    I would assume that 99.9% of TW posters would agree with my assertion concerning the 6.1 series of frames.
     
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  13. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    Oh, I'm not saying the 6.1 series isn't stable or has no "plow through" effect, I'm simply saying that the 95 sq inch models have relatively little effect when compared to frames like the K90, N90, or most Prestige Mids. Or other heavy players frames. (I will admit, weight is a factor, but I still think it depends a lot on who you hit with.) I wish I could hit with Safin, but I'm stuck here with ranked juniors and high level coaches. Oh, and 99.9 percent is a risky number to use.
     
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  14. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I think the K95 makes up a bit for it's lack of mass in its stiffness, as far as plow through goes.

    Shredding his grammar was a bit much though. I cringed.
     
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  15. matchmaker

    matchmaker Hall of Fame

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    You have to feel it to know it. I have some old wilson reflexes and since I have them I know what plow through means. They crush the ball and even with a half fast swing you feel the ball accelerating when it comes off your string bed. The negative issue about plow through is that you would only find it in heavy racquets with a high swingweight so you would have to be all the time focused on making early preparation. But when you do so you will play your best tennis ever.
     
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  16. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    Alright, to further elaborate on my first post;

    That 'plow through' effect to which we're referring is momentum, plain and simple. The racquet striking the ball is what's called an inelastic collision, meaning the two do not rebound in opposite directions. The equation for momentum is denoted as p=mv, or momentum = mass times velocity. Therefor, weight and velocity are the main factors in determining plow through.
     
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  17. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    The K95 isn't really too bad, but it's certainly not nearly as amazing as he was making it out to be. He seemed really pompous, so I was simply trying to cut him down to size through his grammar.
     
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  18. Demoneye

    Demoneye New User

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    is ther plow thru on a pdr+?
    is it good or bad ?
    and wheres the new babolat pure storm limited cmon man
     
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  19. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, but you can't swing a light racquet fast enough to compensate for its lack of mass. That's why heavier racquets give you more plow-through than lighter racquets do.

    Also, lighter racquets transmit more shock and vibration which take away from the feel of plowing through.
     
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  20. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    Well simply listing a racquet that he likes doesn't exactly address the topic.
     
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  21. AmeliasDad

    AmeliasDad Banned

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    So let me pose this question... can a racquet have good feel and plow through? Seems to me that it has to have one or the other-but not both, am I right?
     
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  22. Bubba

    Bubba Professional

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    AO hey mate... by the way, I was in the 4/325 at Bragg for 4 yrs... you from/in the 82nd? Unit?

    Anyway, actually momentum is the result of plow through. Plow through is a function of the net sum of the velocity of the ball and the mass and velocity of the frame. With plow through, we are essentially stating the frames ability to overcome the momentum of the ball at impact. Therefore, a heavier frame (e.g. mass) will have a bigger plow through effect than a light frame. Additionally, even though you can generate a faster swing rate with a lighter frame, it wont have the same plow through as a heavier frame swung at a lower velocity. With plow through, mass is the key - combined with a reasonable swing (velocity)
     
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  23. Bubba

    Bubba Professional

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    Nope. The K90 for instance has huge plow through and is one of the best feel/touch frames out there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  24. Voltron

    Voltron Hall of Fame

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    Exactly, that's part of the reason I cut him down.
     
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  25. stormholloway

    stormholloway Legend

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    I think racquets with more plow through, generally, have more feel because mass transmits feel, essentially. This may not be true for overly stiff racquets. The K90 has superb feel however.
     
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  26. jgreen06

    jgreen06 Rookie

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    play with an hps6.1 and you will know what plow through is
     
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  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    No, not at all. To me, having plow-through is a big part of what makes a racquet feel good.
     
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  28. AmeliasDad

    AmeliasDad Banned

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    This is finally beginning to make some sense to me.
     
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  29. hotseat

    hotseat Rookie

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    plow through is only important if you have bad footwork/conditioning and don't plan on getting in position to hit the majority of the balls in any given rally.
     
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  30. hotseat

    hotseat Rookie

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    can't believe i'm quoting myself but........

    forgot to add, plow through helps reduce shock when hitting balls off center, which is primarily caused by the factors i listed in the previous post
     
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  31. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    I was simply stating that velocity was also a factor. Anyone who's telling me that mass is key in a collision (as far as tennis goes) is preaching to the choir.

    I'll hit my 4 year mark this June, with another 2 before I ETS. I've been in 1/325 since December of '04.

    We may be splitting hairs here, but according to the law of conservation of momentum the sum of the momentum of each of the objects before the collision is equal to the sum of the momentum of each of the objects after the collision. Therefor mometum is a factor both before and after the collision, and is no less the cause of the momentum than the result of it. There isn't MORE momentum after the collision, but the velocity of the ball after the collision is directly proportional to the mass of the racquet because the ball weighs so much less. To be honest, I think the 'plow through' effect we're discussing here has less to do with simple mass ratios as it does with momentum as it relates to the inelasticity of the collision (in which case energy becomes a factor as well).

    Basically I think we see eye to eye, but someone mistook my last post to mean that velocity was the defining characteristic of 'plow through', and that's simply not the case.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
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  32. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    Don't let the physics scare you people; it's all on wikipedia. And a little common sense goes a long way...
     
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  33. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    The way I look at " plow through" is hitting a nail with a 26 oz hammer, then hit one witn an 18 oz hammer. One (heavy) has plow through..
     
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  34. Jonas

    Jonas Semi-Pro

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    For the record, the 6.1 series does offer a ton of plow through. I would think that hitting with one of those would be a good way to understand and feel what plow through is all about.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2008
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  35. johnathan smith

    johnathan smith Rookie

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    Are you guys really serious about the grammar stuff on internet message boards??
    Do you really take time to proof read all of your posts?
    Guys, they are called girls...go out and date them, instead of trying to get that post count to 5,000 :)
     
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  36. Salsa_Lover

    Salsa_Lover Rookie

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    I agree with you Johnathan. those forum bullies need to go out more and get some fresh air.
     
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  37. Agent Orynge

    Agent Orynge Professional

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    Pot, meet kettle.

    Forum trolls have no business griping about the amount of time others spend online. Fin.
     
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  38. deme08

    deme08 Professional

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    My POG mid has a great "plow through" feel. Is it due to the small head size or weight? or both?
     
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  39. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    Racquets dont give anyone plow through. The player gives the racquet plow through. A distinction often not understood it seems

    It's very simple. heavier racquets have more potential for PT, but only provided the racquet operator has the technique and can swing them fast enough. to that end, just look at the specs

    A heavy racquet in the hands of someone who cant make it work = 0 plow through...better off with something better matched to their skillset. something lighter would then give them more plow through..people can and do well compensate for less mass with higher batspeed all the time. dont listen to the stuff posted by the racquet snobs..pick a racquet with the right swingweight for YOU <no matter what it is> and learn how to use it
     
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  40. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Wow, so if you drive a Mini Cooper and you want to plow through a Hummer in a head-on collision, you should just step on the gas and drive even faster right into the Hummer? Amazing........I guess I should just switch to a 5 oz. racquet and swing for the fences then. :-?
     
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  41. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    i have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. whatever it is, certainly isnt applicable here..or at best is some sort of incredible stretch of logic.
     
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  42. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    What I'm talking about are the laws of physics, which don't change, not even with tennis racquets. No, tennis racquets are not a special case that get an exemption from the laws of physics, not in this universe, anyway.
     
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  43. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    #43
  44. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    nono you should slow down if you really want to punish that hummer :-|

    Of course here we have a hummer in hand that we want to squish toy mini coopers with OBVIOUSLY we want to speed up to plow through them better.
     
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  45. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    I knew this was coming :) but really you're both right in a way. I think the correct SW is the most important factor over the course of a match, but plow through, or as I put it *heavy ball* does exist. (eg) when I hit with a...say 12.6 oz stick, the ball just comes off the strings different, it's a heavier ball - the problem for me is, I can only hit that kind of ball for about fifteen minutes due to the fatigue factor.
     
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  46. Bubba

    Bubba Professional

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    Cool. Have a walk on Long Street for me and a sand run in Area J!
     
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  47. klementine

    klementine Hall of Fame

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    Plow through? Adidas GTX pro(1981) really crushes balls, 14+oz., its effortless when you let the stick swing properly. I dont swing it anymore, sentimental reasons.
     
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  48. KFwinds

    KFwinds Professional

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    Agree with all posters who mentioned the Wilson 6.1's... I have hit with dozens of sticks over the past several years, and the 6.1 95's (sorry, but the 90's don't even come close for me) are the best example of "plow through" that you're going to find. Specifically, try either the Classic or the K Factor versions.
     
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  49. RoddickistheMan

    RoddickistheMan Professional

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    playing with a midsize players racquet weighted at 12 ounces will help you experience plow through.
     
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  50. Ross K

    Ross K Legend

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    I was waiting for the mention of 'heavy ball'... Anyway, I agree with what bluegrasser says... and FWIW, 2 plow though frames of my acquaintance would be the PSC 6.1 (around 12.6), and the Head Rad Tour XL (around 12.6 and a very, very high SW.)
     
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