What Federer did right

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Towser83, Mar 18, 2012.

  1. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Watching the Federer vs nadal match I noticed a few things, I know people have probably mentioned them all but I wanted to sum up what I think Federer did well in the match.

    1. Serving. Serve percentage was high in the first set (about 74%) and he was overall very good at clutch serving (perfectly demonstrated by the ace on match point) this was very impressive given the wind.

    2. Backhand. Federer really hit his backhand with purpose and attack. He didn't just slice it back and give Nadal an easy ball to hit, he used it as a weapon and made few errors off it. Nadal was unable to attack either wing enough and thus had no fallback plan to go to.

    3. Volleys. Too often Federer comes in off a weak approach and promtly gets passed. Sometimes Nadal hits a great couple of shots to get into a Federer service game and Federer panics, tries to end the point too soon by coming in out of hope than real intelligence and pays the price. He forces the issue too much coming in when really he should know the shot isn't good enough. Then after he gets burnt a few times he stops coming in. In the first set in the IW semi, he won 9 out of 9 net aproaches and 12 of 13 overall. This is fantastic from Federer. He came in to net at the right times, played good vollies and didn't give up when Nadal won points at net (though obviously he only won one point when Federer made the aproach) Federer really displayed the total opposite of what he usually does at net vs Nadal.

    4. shot choice. Federer played a very clever match, he knew exactly whan to wrong foot nadal and go back behind him, he didctated play and seemed to have a feel for how to construct points. His defense was much better than I exected it to be.

    5. Attitude. Federer looked ike he meant business and believed he was going to win. When he got broken back in the first set he stuck to his task and didn't lose composure. Same in the second set when he lost one break.

    EDIT. Tudwell mentioned breakpoints as well, here Federer took his chances better than he has done in a lot of mathes

    The question is, can Federer do this on a regular basis or was this a rare show of form? Federer needs to rewatch the tape and remember what he did!
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
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  2. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    I think Federer generally does well at net against Nadal. Obviously against a great passer like Nadal, he's gonna get burned quite a bit, but even if he loses a few points at net, it puts pressure on Nadal not to let up at all.

    The problems Federer has encountered in the past against Nadal are mostly mental. He's too passive on break points and often indecisive tactically, leading to unforced errors. The times he beats Nadal, he's confident and sticks to a specific game plan.
     
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  3. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    I forgot to mntion break points! Yeah he did much better in that area too
     
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  4. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Federer's return was another thing that stuck out. I remember one game early on where Federer shanked two returns in a row way out of the court and I thought, "Oh no, not this again." But that was it. Other than that, he put almost every single ball back into play, which put a lot more pressure on Nadal to back up his serve off the ground, which proved difficult to do in the windy conditions.
     
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  5. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Good summary

    #2-- I dont remember even one slice actually, it was all top spin or flat.

    #3-- the key to volleys was approaching on Nadal's BH vs FH, like he did at AO. Only once it failed yesterday

    6- Return of serve, instead of his usual chip back on his BH he stepped inside the court and took it early and blocked.
     
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  6. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Good points OddJack,

    yep return of serve was much better
     
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  7. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Order will be restored next time they play, calm down guys. If I didn't see the match, id think Rafa played well with the way u guys are acting. The guy had 1 forehand winner in an hour of tennis and was pushing.
     
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  8. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    He had one FH winner because he was busy defending his bh.

    And pushing is what he does, how do you think he has lost all those finals to Djoker, by attacking??
     
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  9. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Lol this forum is still so ****ty.
     
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  10. nadalwon2012

    nadalwon2012 Banned

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    Bottom line- wet weather. ball doesn't kick up as high. Plus windy weather making Nadal uncertain (which he usually isn't).

    Better pray for rain at Miami :lol:
     
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  11. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Please. Federer was attacking much better with his backhand for example at RG 2011 and lost the match. Don't take it personal, I like Fed and he played better than Nadal and that's all that matters. But the million threads being created about his "new tactics" and him winning bc he "successfully exploited Nadal's backhand" are just bogus. Nadal played terribly and Federer played great.
     
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  12. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    As a Federer fan, I pretty much agree. When Nadal's playing well and the score is close, Federer falters. He starts to miss more second serve returns and second guess his own game plan. When Nadal's a little (or a lot) off, Federer can swing freely and remain confident.
     
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  13. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    At least Nadal has won IW couple of times.

    Seems like he's the one needing pray for a Miami title.
     
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  14. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Thanks for keeping it real man. I don't get why people have to act like Nadal was playing the match of his life and Federer just blew 100% Rafa off the court. Federer played better and won, just be happy with that. Jeez.
     
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  15. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    No one said Federer was going to win every match from now on or that this changed something, but Federer could have well let nadal back in the match and lost. Federer played better than he often has against Nadal, right from the first game.

    Whatever happens, it's just nice to see him have a positive attiude. Like many of you nadal fans were over the moon nadal tried in the AO final, I just hope to see Federer try to play a good match even if he loses. He will probably lose the next one but I hope he at least learns what can work for him.

    Of course though whenever fed plays bad it's cos Nadal is making him, but with Nadal if he ever plays bad let's just use it as an excuse to take away the win from his opponent. Probably hasn't ever lost a match when playing above dreadful.

    You have become really quite miserable since Nadal suffered about the 5th Novak loss. Even Clarky had better praise for Fed's prformace. I mean we know nadal didn't play great but that doesn't mean Federer didn't have to play well to win like he did.
     
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  16. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Well that's great.

    Please tell Nadal fans to please shut up about the H2H, because whenever he has won he played great and Federer played terribly.
     
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  17. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Who acted like that? Did I say anywhere Nadal played great? Federer still had to win the match and he got broken back from a break up and almost blew a double break lead. More importantly he cae out with belief. Sorry but you used to be a great poster but you've just become bitter since Nadal started losing more.
     
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  18. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Dont be a hypocrite, if you change Nadals name to Djokovic, and Federers to Nadal you know exactly what kind of reaction would occur on the forum. We'd have the SAME sort of topic. People get excited when their player does well...why others have to "keep it real" and kill their parade idk...i'd like to think everyone is over 5.
     
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  19. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Lol im not bitter, but it's just funny how no one is mentioning how poorly Rafa played. It's been reversed plenty of times where Rafa beat a subpar Fed. The difference is Rafa fans didn't create 20 threads about what Rafa "did right". @at your last post, if they did create those topics they'd be just as delusional. Had Nadal won the AO final, he wouldn't have done anything better except play with more aggression. Not have "new tactics"
     
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  20. wilkinru

    wilkinru Professional

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    The best match Ive ever seen fed play was madrid 2009 final.

    That is the blueprint on how to beat nadal. Has been for 3 years now. Watch that match. Fed goes balls out offense and redlines his game.

    He will win or lose depending on how he is feeling that day. As he gets older, he will not feel as good as often...
     
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  21. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    For one he's expected to beat federer. And two......i think you see what you want to see because rafa gets MORE than his fair share of dumb threads
     
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  22. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    I think he has a point, though. Federer didn't do anything new here. He did what he always does when he beats Nadal. He served well, returned well, and stayed confident throughout the match. I'm ecstatic that Federer won, but this isn't a turning point (as some have suggested) and the tactics he used are the same ones he uses against Nadal, win or lose - he just executed those tactics better here than in other matches.
     
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  23. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Can I get a freaking Amen.
     
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  24. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Well yea, i feel the same, but if im in his position im not gonna go around saying "natural order will be restored" there's no need for that. It comes off as petty imo. Its so difficult to actually discuss tennis around here because everything devolves into mudslinging,fingerpointing and trolling the other "camp".People on here have mentioned being married and having kids but all i see are grown men going "haw haw" to one another. Sadly i hear other sporting communities are worse.
     
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  25. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    AMEN!!!!


    10amens
     
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  26. veritech

    veritech Hall of Fame

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    surprised no one mentioned the conditions. nadal seemed to have much more trouble under the conditions unlike federer. as we've seen fed's got a great game under windy conditions, so combine that with his strong match streak/momentum, a renewed federer gameplan, and you have a flustered nadal. rafa did not play well because of the opponent and the conditions.

    give credit where it's due.
     
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  27. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Well, I apologize for the order will be restored thing honestly. What I was trying to emphasize is that Federer didn't do anything new in the match. He just played really well. Nadal clearly didn't. Did Federer have something to do with that? Of course, but no matter how well someone is playing, you never see Nadal finish a set with one winner. He didn't look anything like Nadal until the last 10 minutes of the match.
     
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  28. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    And as Nadal gets older he is feeling even worse.

    two bathroom breaks while playing doubles. Reminds me of sleepless old men going to restroom in the middle of the night coughing and peesing.
     
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  29. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    I'm a Federer fan, do you really want me to make a thread slagging off Nadal's game? Lol i'll leave that to rafa fans who have been doing it a lot lately. You clarky and namelessone can do that.

    and why don't rafa fans make threads about what rafa did right when he beat Fedrer? erm because he ALWAYS beats Federer??. If Nadal beat Djokovic and Djokovic played like crap there would still be topics if Rafa actaully played well himself. You know there would. And what difference does it make if he used new tactics or just played more aggressive? None! It still amounts to the same thing.

    Man, Federer comes out with a positive attitude and his fans are just pleased he had the right outlook, and you who I rated as one of the best people here, just have a go at people? I'm kind of glad I've been through the whole process of the fall of my idol many years ago, so I don't actually have to get a pout on when he loses anymore :lol:

    If Nadal came out with a good attitude and beat a crappy Djokovic you'd all be obver the moon. A lot of you were pretty happy even though he lost the AO.

    Another thing is to play that good in the wind was pretty good stuff. And I disagree slightly that he didn't try anything new, ok he's tried these things before but he did them better and didn't give up on them. I said in my first post stuff like he served well - did i suggest he has never served well before? Of course not, but he doesn't always do it vs Nadal. Same with his choice of when to come into net, same with his belief and shot selection. It often deserts him after a couple of great nadal points.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2012
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  30. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    Dont get me wrong lol, i agree, but i also understand why the thread was made. People talk **** about old man fed all the time...despite the fact that minus the AO...he's been on an AMAZING run since that USO match and its still going...you know in some years he didnt win a title till like...fall. This year he's won 3 back to back w/o the excuse of the top 4 not being there. People are just excited their favorite player is still very relevant you know what i mean?
     
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  31. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    ...Nadal played terribly...

    Oh thats too bad, Nadal has won Nothing for 10 months now.

    Not a hard court title since 2010

    You guys said the same thing W 2011 and USO 2011, that he played terribly.

    Guess what, he is gonna continue playing terribly, so get used to it :)
     
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  32. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    You're taking me way too serious tonight, im not having a go at anyone. The only thing I didn't agree with is the whole "Federer is attacking Nadal's backhand like Djokovic"....... "Federer learned the tactic to beat Rafa from Novak!!" and all that garbage. You're right though. Nadal could beat an injured Djokovic on crutches tomorrow and id throw confetti in the air.
     
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  33. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well people are discussing what federer did well on match threads and various others, i just wanted to sum up stuff in one thread. Didn't know it would cause such a ****storm. Didn't insult nadal at all, but that was my mistake, i should of said how pisspoor and useless he was. In future when pleased about any match a player wins against nadal, i will specify that Nadal brought it on himself.

    Jeez, i've said 100 times that nadal did not turn up in the wtf match.

    Incidentally, anytime a nadal fan talks about how awesome Nadal was in 2008, especailly at RG, do they always remember to say how crap Federer played, and how he choked Hamburg and choked break points at Wimbledon? I'm talking nadal fans, not fed fans.
     
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  34. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah but I never said that anywhere in my thread. I literally did not mention him attacking his backhand or learning it from Nole (which I agree is crap) I'm just saying all the elements of his game were good (volley, serve, shot selection, attitude) and I was pleased he did it. I even said I don't know if he can do itt again or if it's a one off. So I get you're pissed with people saying stuff but I don't think anything I said was guilty of being what you saying it is
     
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  35. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    You guys will know how terribly Nadal plays when he draws Delpo this week.

    All Delpo anger of 4 losses to Rodge this year will come down on Nadal's hairless head for most possible damage.
     
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  36. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Federer played so badly it goes without saying. During their AO match this year when Federer had that really bad patch I even mentioned he was looking almost as bad as he did at the FO in 08. Reguardless of the final, Nadal played devastating tennis that whole year.
     
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  37. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    I think you think i was singling you out and that's not the case.
     
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  38. DarthFed

    DarthFed Hall of Fame

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    You forgot what forum we were on lol. And i was agreeing that he didnt do anything particularly "new".
     
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  39. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Well that's convienient :lol: Maybe nadal played so bad here it also goes without saying? Point is if you're player plays well you're going to focus on that rather than the opponent playing bad. Doesn't mean you're denying it. I would actually expect angry nadal fans if i stated he was terrible or something.

    Ok fair enough, just it was me who started the thread and you seemed opposed to the whole idea.
     
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  40. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    @The first part of your post it's not like that. People are going on about the backhand thing and new tactics as if Federer cracked the peak Rafa code or something, that's what im saying. If Rafa played like he did at the AO and lost the match then you guys would have a valid point. He looked like a completely different person yesterday though.
     
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  41. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    Need to add one thing. It was easier in this match for Federer to win points at the net, as the responses were going to be typically more unsure and weaker than usual due to the wind. Federer used this to his advantage brilliantly, and forced the issue and cut out the wind issue for himself by making well timed ventures to the net, with Nadal's responses being more confused and less convincing than usual.

    Federer played a smart match in the conditions and had his game face on.
     
    #41
  42. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    I don't agree that Nadal producing few winners in a set = he played poorly. When he gets blitzed, he gets blitzed. That's his game and how it can sometimes be. It was similar during set one of the WTF 2010 Finals. Federer was showcasing too much firepower and Nadal didn't have a clue and had to fight his way into the match. You can take the game away from Rafa and he'll not have much chance to produce anything. With roger it's different, when he's getting blitzed he always has the firepower to at least produce an equal-ish amount of winners to the opponent, because that's his game.

    Sometimes when Nadal is getting heavily groped, he is playing fine, and sometimes not, but Nadal hitting 1 2 3 winners in the odd set when another player is donning the ninja cap doesn't have to or always = Nadal sucks bawls.
     
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  43. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    well personally i never said that he cracked peak rafa, but he came out stuck to his game and hit his shots well. He gave himself the best chance he could and that's all he could do, but he could have easily played crap himself. He almost got broken the first game which could have set the match on a very different course. He also could have choked after losing the break lead and like i said it was great to play as well as he did in very windy conditions. I would have expected his serve to be much more error filled and also more errors in general.
     
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  44. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    All this I can agree with, good post.
     
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  45. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah I mean I've seen nadal playing well not hit that many winners. He often hits less winners than an oponent he beats easily. In the Miami match last year didn't Federer have more winners? nadal had about 10 or something in a match he totally dominated?

    I don't think he did play well but it isn't like he usually hits loads of winners every time he plays well, he extracts a lot of errors. Personally I look at nadal's own errors as the real sign and he made too many as the match went on.
     
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  46. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Actually I might agree with this obtuse poster for once.
     
    #46
  47. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    Bottom line,

    Nadal is happy with his progress. Who are you guys to say any different?

    :)

    Bed time, damn long Monday tomorrow.

    Goodnight
     
    #47
  48. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    ok cool, glad we found somethng to agree on in the end :)
     
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  49. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    He is probably right, but this time Fed didn't choke when in charge of the 1st set (well he got broken but broke back) not new tactics just sticking with it and playing better
     
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  50. Nathaniel_Near

    Nathaniel_Near Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relax folks, ...
    To look at his errors would tend to be the more salient angle of analysis.
     
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