What if Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal didn't exist?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Sabratha, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    Who would have won the grand slams from 2004-2010?
     
    #1
  2. TopFH

    TopFH Hall of Fame

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    All those "nobodies" like Roddick and Hewitt.
     
    #2
  3. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    Roddick +7 slams.
    2003 Wimbledon:
    Roddick
    2004 Wimbledon:
    Roddick

    The mental slump that Roddick fell into is equivalent to the mental slump that Murray has just gotten out of. The constant losing to Federer and not winning any more slams REALLY got to Roddick.
    Victories build confidence which and also create imposing figure for others to beat and builds knowledge & experience of how to win.

    Roddick would have maintained his confidence in order to continue pre2005 attacking form and not the post 2005 pushing form. He'd probably have 7+ at least (3+ of which are Wimbledon). And discussion whether he's just below Agassi in best list (even though hes not).
     
    #3
  4. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

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    Whoever got bounced out by Fedal the most in any F/SF during that time.
     
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  5. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    i'll try:

    2003 wimbledon - philippousis
    2004 australia - safin (or ferrero)
    2004 wimbledon - roddick
    2004 us - hewitt
    2005 french - coria
    2005 wimbledon - roddick
    2005 us - agassi
    2006 australia - baghdatis (or nalbandian)
    2006 french - ljubicic (or nalbandian)
    2006 wimbledon - baghdatis
    2006 us - roddick
    2007 australia - gonzalez (or roddick)
    2007 french - djokovic (or davydenko)
    2007 wimbledon - djokovic
    2007 us - djokovic
    2008 french - djokovic
    2008 wimbledon - safin
    2008 us - murray (or djokovic)
    2009 australia - roddick (or verdasco)
    2009 french - soderling
    2009 wimbledon - roddick
    2010 australia - murray
    2010 french - soderling
    2010 wimbledon - berdych (or murray)
    2010 us - djokovic
    2011 french - djokovic (so novak would have won calendar slam in 2011)
    2012 french - djokovic (novak would have won an unprecedented seven straight slams)
    2012 wimbledon - murray (or djokovic)
     
    #5
  6. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    I think 2012 Wimbledon will have definitely been Murray, and I think Del Potro would have beaten Soderling in the final of French Open 2009 (has a 4-1 H2H against Soderling, and has won their only clay encounter in Estoril, 6-4 7-5).
     
    #6
  7. 6-1 6-3 6-0

    6-1 6-3 6-0 Banned

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    Tommy Haas may have also been a competitor for the 2009 Wimbledon title, having made the semi-final. Against Roddick, he leads 7-6. Not much of a lead, but it's a competitive H2H.
     
    #7
  8. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    it's amazing that djokovic could possibly have at least 12 slams already if not for federer and nadal. and they might have come in streaks of 5 consecutive and 7 consecutive slams, including a non-calendar year slam and a calendar year slam.
     
    #8
  9. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    meanwhile, hewitt would have added only 1 slam and roddick would add 5.
     
    #9
  10. Frying Pan Forehand

    Frying Pan Forehand Rookie

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    then clowns like Murray would actually have a slam.
     
    #10
  11. Jack Romeo

    Jack Romeo Professional

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    i wasn't sure about their head to head. so maybe you're guess is better.
     
    #11
  12. Polaris

    Polaris Hall of Fame

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    All the self-appointed cross-era pundits would say that it is an exceptionally strong era with so many people in with a fighting chance to win.
     
    #12
  13. Swissv2

    Swissv2 Hall of Fame

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    we would have someone else that would enter the tennis scene that would take Roger's and Rafa's place. There seems to be always one or two dominant player within the field at any time during history.
     
    #13
  14. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    There would not have been djokovic 2.0 and tennis used to be a much sad place. These 2 players brought the best out of many.
     
    #14
  15. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    2003 Wimbledon - Roddick
    2004 Australia - Safin
    2004 French Open- Coria
    2004 Wimbledon - Roddick
    2004 US - Hewitt
    2005 Australia-Safin
    2005 French - Davydenko
    2005 Wimbledon - Hewitt
    2005 US - Agassi
    2006 Australia - Haas
    2006 French - Djokovic
    2006 Wimbledon - Baghdatis
    2006 US - Roddick
    2007 Australia - Gonzalez
    2007 French - Davydenko
    2007 Wimbledon - Djokovic
    2007 US - Djokovic
    2008 Australia- Djokovic
    2008 French - Djokovic
    2008 Wimbledon - Safin
    2008 US - Murray
    2009 Australia - Roddick
    2009 French - Del Potro
    2009 Wimbledon - Roddick
    2009 US- Del Potro
    2010 Australia - Murray
    2010 French - Soderling
    2010 Wimbledon - Berdych
    2010 US - Murray
    2011 Australia- Djokovic
    2011 French -Djokovic
    2011 Wimbledon- Murray
    2011 US-Djokovic
    2012 Australia-Berdych
    2012 French - Djokovic
    2012 Wimbledon - Murray
     
    #15
  16. MG1

    MG1 Professional

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    2007 wimbledon -Djokovic???:-?:-?
     
    #16
  17. Eureka

    Eureka New User

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    Federer is a genius. He has played the game like no other can, and in his absence whilst others might have won the titles he has, not one of them could / can play as he does. His contribution to the sport is unique.

    I have no comment to make about Nadal, other than he has collected lots of titles. These would obviously go to others.
     
    #17
  18. elpolaco84

    elpolaco84 Guest

    forums full of: "Coria the king of clay" (of his generation)

    "who's a better grass courter Roddick or sampras?"

    Safin with more titles AO and USOs having reached al major finals
    and a couple of WTFs

    and so on...
     
    #18
  19. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    All right, I'll give it a go:

    2003 Wimbledon: Mark Philippoussis
    2003 US Open: Andy Roddick
    2004 Australian Open: Lleyton Hewitt
    2004 French Open: Gaston Gaudio
    2004 Wimbledon: Lleyton Hewitt
    2004 US Open: Lleyton Hewitt
    2005 Australian Open: Marat Safin
    2005 French Open: Guillermo Coria
    2005 Wimbledon: Lleyton Hewitt
    2005 US Open: Lleyton Hewitt
    2006 Australian Open: Marcos Baghdatis
    2006 French Open: David Nalbandian
    2006 Wimbledon: Marcos Baghdatis
    2006 US Open: Andy Roddick
    2007 Australian Open: Fernando Gonzalez
    2007 French Open: Nikolay Davydenko
    2007 Wimbledon: Richard Gasquet
    2007 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 Wimbledon: Marat Safin
    2008 US Open: Andy Murray
    2009 Australian Open: Fernando Verdasco
    2009 French Open: Robin Soderling
    2009 Wimbledon: Andy Roddick
    2009 US Open: Juan Martin del Potro
    2010 Australian Open: Andy Murray
    2010 French Open: Robin Soderling
    2010 Wimbledon: Andy Murray
    2010 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2011 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2011 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2011 Wimbledon: Novak Djokovic
    2011 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 Wimbledon: Andy Murray

    This would mean:

    Novak Djokovic: 10 majors
    Lleyton Hewitt: 7 majors
    Andy Murray: 4 majors
    Marat Safin: 3 majors
    Andy Roddick: 3 majors
    Marcos Baghdatis: 2 majors
    Robin Soderling: 2 majors
    Mark Philippoussis: 1 major
    Gaston Gaudio: 1 major
    Guillermo Coria: 1 major
    David Nalbandian: 1 major
    Fernando Gonzalez: 1 major
    Nikolay Davydenko: 1 major
    Richard Gasquet: 1 major
    Fernando Verdasco: 1 major
    Juan Martin del Potro: 1 major


    Instead, in reality, we have:

    Roger Federer: 17 majors
    Rafael Nadal: 11 majors
    Novak Djokovic: 5 majors
    Lleyton Hewitt: 2 majors
    Marat Safin: 2 majors
    Andy Roddick: 1 major
    Gaston Gaudio: 1 major
    Juan Martin del Potro: 1 major
     
    #19
  20. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    BS thread, because of the butterfly effect. If Federer and Nadal never existed how would have tennis evolved in the 2000s? There is no way to project the finalists would have been the same.
     
    #20
  21. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    From 2003 to 2007: Roddick, Hewitt , Davydenko, Nalbandian. From 2007 to 2012: Djokovic, Murray and maybe Tsonga, Berdych too (and let's not forget Soderling at RG!).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
    #21
  22. Ico

    Ico Hall of Fame

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    Tennis would've been far less interesting.
     
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  23. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I have to agree. There would have been good players and good matches, but not the same kind of epic rivalries that we've had.
     
    #23
  24. BauerAlmeida

    BauerAlmeida Semi-Pro

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    Safin wasn't denied by Federer or Nadal many times. Coria would have won Rome and Montecarlo in 2005 and hamburg in 2004, nothing more.

    Wimby 2003: Roddick
    USO 2003: Roddick
    AO 2004: Nalbandian (Safin was burn out in the final)
    RG 2004: Gaudio
    Wimby 2004: Roddick
    USO 2004: Agassi
    AO 2005: Safin
    RG 2005: Ferrer (I don't remember exactly the draw)
    Wimby 2005: Hewitt
    USO 2005: Agassi/Nalbandian/Hewitt, hard to say
    AO 2006: Baghdatis (Haas maybe)
    RG 2006: Nalbandian
    W 2006: Baghdatis
    USO 2006: Roddick
    AO 2007: Gonzalez
    RG 2007: Davydenko
    W 2007: Djokovic
    USO 2007: Djokovic
    AO 2008: Djokovic
    RG 2008: Djokovic (Novak Slam, LOL)
    W 2008: Safin
    USO 2008: Djokovic
    AO 2009: Del Potro (maybe Verdasco)
    RG 2009: Del Potro
    W 2009: Roddick
    USO 2009: Del Potro
    AO 2010: Murray
    RG 2010: Soderling
    W 2010: Berdych
    USO 2010: Djokovic
    AO 2011: Djokovic
    RG 2011: Djokovic
    W 2011: Djokovic
    USO 2011: Djokovic (Grand Slam)
    AO 2012: Djokovic
    RG 2012: Djokovic
    W 2012: Djokovic (8 in a row)
     
    #24
  25. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    There is not knowing, what could have happened.
     
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  26. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    I disagree about Delpo in 2009 USO. If Fed had not been there, I think Djoko would have won that one and Delpo would still be slamless.
     
    #26
  27. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Reasons?

    10sensiblereasons
     
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  28. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    True enough, but this thread is purely hypothetical.
     
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  29. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Djoko would not have lost his cool the way Fed did after that ump decision (was it in the 3rd?) and he would not have gone AWOL in the 5th the way Fed did either. Fed just let the match slip away in the 5th. No fight at all. Djoko is a great hard court player and he is much younger than Fed, he was more experienced than Delpo in big matches, with all that put together he would have found a way to prevail in his second USO final (probably his 3rd consecutive if Fed hadn't been there in USO 2008).
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
    #29
  30. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    How do you know that?

    How do you know that?

    And Del Potro is not?

    That is the only correct/sensible thing in your post.


    Do you realize, that Del Potro beat Djokovic in 2011? The year, when Djokovic made most of his name as a monster on all surfaces? Do you realize, that the last win of Djokovic over Del Potro on relative fast surfaces dates back from 2008, when Del Potro was only 20 years old? That they won their maiden Major at the same age?
     
    #30
  31. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Delpo didn't beat Djoko in USO in 2011. We're talking slams. Look, there is no way to know for sure but we're making hypothesis right now. That's mine. ETA: also Murray is a bad matchup for Delpo and if Rafa and Fed didn't exist, Delpo would have had to play Murray a lot more often.
     
    #31
  32. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    Incredibly bold prediction.
     
    #32
  33. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    If Roger Federer didn't exist, there would be no need to watch tennis on television. IMHO.
     
    #33
  34. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    2003 Wimbledon- Philipoussis
    2004 Australian Open- with draw rearranged toss up, depends who draws who what day, going to guess Nalbandian I guess
    2004 Wimbledon- Roddick
    2004 U.S Open- Agassi
    2005 French- Puerta, how could it be Coria who lost to Davydenko in the round of 16 anyway
    2005 Wimbledon- Hewitt
    2005 U.S Open- Agassi
    2006 Australian Open- Davydenko
    2006 French Open- Ljubicic, Nalbandian was injured in his semifinal
    2006 Wimbledon- Mario Ancic
    2006 U.S Open- Blake
    2007 Australian Open- Gonzalez
    2007 French Open- Davydenko
    2007 Wimbledon- Tomas Berdych
    2007 U.S Open- Novak Djokovic
    2008 French Open- Novak Djokovic
    2008 Wimbledon- Marat Safin
    2008 U.S Open- Andy Murray
    2009 Australian Open- Fernando Verdasco
    2009 French Open- Robin Soderling
    2009 Wimbledon- Andy Roddick
    2010 Australian Open- Andy Murray
    2010 French Open- Robin Soderling
    2010 Wimbledon- Tomas Berdych
    2010 U.S Open- Novak Djokovic
    2011 French Open- Novak Djokovic
    2012 French Open- Novak Djokovic
    2012 Wimbledon- Andy Murray

    So based on that I have:

    Djokovic 10 slams
    Agassi 10 slams
    Roddick 3 slams
    Hewitt 3 slams
    Murray 3 slams
    Safin 3 slams
    Davydenko 2 slams
    Berdych 2 slams
    Soderling 2 slams
    Nalbandian 1 slam
    Ljubicic 1 slam
    Puerta 1 slam
    Gonzalez 1 slam
    Verdasco 1 slam
    Philippoussis 1 slam
    Blake 1 slam
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
    #34
  35. Chillaxer

    Chillaxer Semi-Pro

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    Isn't this a slightly uninteresting hypothetical?
     
    #35
  36. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    Oh boy. It's sad because you would see lots of players on the rank of Gaston Gaudio taking some majors. I'm sure you would see some odd names that they both eliminated in the early rounds who might have squeaked by to win some titles.
     
    #36
  37. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    I thought this would make for some interesting discussion in the off season.
     
    #37
  38. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    The list does not consider the factor of impact made by Roger and Rafa on the other players and also players like roddick might have won more slams
     
    #38
  39. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    This. So this.
     
    #39
  40. Razoredge

    Razoredge Banned

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    No they'd complain it's a weak era because no one has the talent to rise above the others.
     
    #40
  41. Roddick85

    Roddick85 Professional

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    If we didn't have Nadal nor Federer, I think it's safe to say that men's tennis wouldn't be as popular as it is now, as these 2 players have been ticket sellers for the last couple of years. If neither player's existed, I think Andy Roddick would of been the one to bag a lot more slams. Andre Agassi could of won a few more tournaments as well. Sampras wouldn't of been eliminated against Federer at Wimbledon 2001 either and could of won Wimbledon again. I would also add Leyton Hewitt and Djokovic (after 2007).
     
    #41
  42. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    My guess

    2003 Wimbledon: Andy Roddick
    2003 US Open: Andy Roddick
    2004 Australian Open: Marat Safin
    2004 French Open: Gaston Gaudio
    2004 Wimbledon: Andy Roddick
    2004 US Open: Lleyton Hewitt
    2005 Australian Open: Marat Safin
    2005 French Open: Ferrer
    2005 Wimbledon: Lleyton Hewitt
    2005 US Open: David Nalbandian
    2006 Australian Open: Tommy Haas
    2006 French Open: David Nalbandian
    2006 Wimbledon: Mario Ancic
    2006 US Open: Andy Roddick
    2007 Australian Open: Fernando Gonzalez
    2007 French Open: Tommy Robredo
    2007 Wimbledon: Richard Gasquet (would have been Djokovic but he fell apart physically in the semis)
    2007 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2008 Wimbledon: Andy Murray
    2008 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2009 Australian Open: Fernando Verdasco
    2009 French Open: Del Potro
    2009 Wimbledon: Andy Roddick
    2009 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2010 Australian Open: Andy Murray
    2010 French Open: Robin Soderling
    2010 Wimbledon: Andy Murray
    2010 US Open: Novak Djokovic (maybe Murray.. hard pick)
    2011 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2011 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2011 Wimbledon: Novak Djokovic
    2011 US Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 Australian Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 French Open: Novak Djokovic
    2012 Wimbledon: Andy Murray
    2012 US Open: Andy Murray
     
    #42
  43. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    All of those Dominick picks make me :( because it's soon to be a reality within the next 5 years.
     
    #43
  44. PCXL-Fan

    PCXL-Fan Hall of Fame

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    Djokovic would be GOAT and future prime minister of Serbia.

    Mirka would marry Philipp Kohlschreiber.

    Sureshs would have a successful comedic career touring north america and south asia.

    Dimitrov would model his entire game after 7 time GS champion Andy Roddick.
     
    #44
  45. xan

    xan Professional

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    Djokovic has 6 majors.

    also he could have had more majors but not necessarily. playing with Federer and Nadal in their primes through and throughout made him a juggernaut he is today.
     
    #45
  46. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    My post was done before the 2013 Australian Open.
     
    #46
  47. xan

    xan Professional

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    whoops, sorry. wtf is with people lately necroing years old threads??
     
    #47
  48. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

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    2003 Wimbledon: Roddick
    2003 US Open: Roddick
    2004 Australian Open: Nalbandian
    2004 French Open: Gaudio
    2004 Wimbledon: Roddick
    2004 US Open: Hewitt
    2005 Australian Open: Safin
    2005 French Open: Puerta
    2005 Wimbledon: Roddick
    2005 US Open: Agassi
    2006 Australian Open: Davydenko
    2006 French Open: Nalbandian
    2006 Wimbledon: Ancic
    2006 US Open: Roddick
    2007 Australian Open: Gonzalez
    2007 French Open: Djokovic
    2007 Wimbledon: Berdych
    2007 US Open: Djokovic
    2008 Australian Open: Djokovic
    2008 French Open: Djokovic
    2008 Wimbledon: Ancic (great comeback story, Safin's grass mentality comes back to bite him)
    2008 US Open: Djokovic
    2009 Australian Open: Roddick (Verdasco loses because of what's upstairs)
    2009 French Open: Del Potro
    2009 Wimbledon: Roddick
    2009 US Open: Del Potro
    2010 Australian Open: Murray
    2010 French Open: Soderling
    2010 Wimbledon: Murray
    2010 US Open: Djokovic
    2011 Australian Open: Djokovic
    2011 French Open: Djokovic
    2011 Wimbledon: Djokovic
    2011 US Open: Djokovic
    2012 Australian Open: Djokovic
    2012 French Open: Djokovic
    2012 Wimbledon: Murray
    2012 US Open: Murray
    2013 Australian Open: Djokovic


    And so the Murray/Djokovic era officially arrives in 2010.

    Total Slams in that span:

    Djokovic - 13
    Roddick - 7
    Murray - 4
    Nalbandian - 2
    Ancic - 2
    Del Potro - 2
    Davydenko - 1
    Agassi - 1
    Puerta - 1
    Safin - 1
    Soderling - 1
    Berdych - 1
    Gonzalez - 1
     
    #48
  49. adil1972

    adil1972 Professional

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    what if borg, sampras, federer and nadal didnt exist

    only these 4 players have won 11 or more grand slams in open era
     
    #49
  50. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I agree with those except:

    2004 Australian Open- Safin was way too gassed out by the final to beat any decent opponent. No reason to presume he wouldnt have still had super hard 5 setters vs top players like he actually did this year, even with a rearranged draw. Would have been one of the various contenders who was lucky enough to avoid him until the final. For arguments sake lets just say it was someone in the other half of the draw, so one of Nalbandian or Hewitt is the winner, both who would have had a great shot to beat Safin even under normal circumstances unless he was anything than zoning.

    2005 U.S Open- I think you are WAY off on Nalbandian. Nalbandian was quite mediocre at this event, especialy in the Federer loss. Hewitt or Agassi would have won it most likely.

    2007 French- Robredo is way too much of a mental midget and devoid of any serious weapons to ever win a slam. Davydenko or Djokovic for sure.
     
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