What is 4.5?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Edburger, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    I see lots of people say, "I am 4.5" or "you only 3.5" or such.

    What is this?
     
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  2. Team10

    Team10 Hall of Fame

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    Probably between a 4 and a 5. Or maybe they're hungry for a burger, so they can't be a whole number ?

    Just a guess.
     
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  3. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    I am sorry, I do not understand.

    Are you referring to my name? Yes, it is a little joke. Edberg and burger.
     
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  4. Team10

    Team10 Hall of Fame

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    #4
  5. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    It is the pinnacle of recreational tennis. :)
     
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  6. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    And LeeD's rating 150 years ago.
     
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  7. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    Ahhh, I see. We have similar system in Sweden, but reverse - start at ITN 7, work up to ITN 6, etc.
     
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  8. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    To give you a little more info ... not that you really need this level of detail.

    2.5 - Beginner

    3.0 - These are usually guys that can have a rally of 5-10 balls but have no winning shots or guys that hit hard but cannot rally more than 1 or 2 balls

    3.5 - Starting to play what we think of as real tennis. The guys at this level are typically either athletic newcomers, guys that learned tennis late and do not have polished strokes, or guys that were better players 25-40 years ago.

    4.0 - Typically these folks can rally and have the ability to hit winners. Strokes are better and they understand the basics of doubles strategy. They represent the top 25% of recreational tennis in the states.

    4.5 - Usually fall into two broad groups. Guys that were good 20+ years ago (played college tennis etc) but have developed a beer belly and play infrequently or or guys that have never been good but play enough to be sharp and be competitive with the good players that do not play very often. Top 5-10% of players in states.

    5.0 - Formerly good players that have only been developing the beer belly for 10 years. top 1%

    5.5 - recent college tennis players ... what most people would consider good players. top 0.1%
     
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  9. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    Ahh, I see.

    This forum, very high quality tennis players then. Everybody seems to be 4.5 or better.
     
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  10. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    How were you able to deduce that Sherlock?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
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  11. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    Well, I read. Everybody say, I am 4.5, I am 5.0.

    I understand much better now. Thank you.
     
    #11
  12. Ilove10nis

    Ilove10nis New User

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    Yes, 16% of tennis players in the state are the member of this tennis forum.
     
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  13. anubis

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    I would say even 3.5s are beginners. I'm a 3.5 and can barely hit the ball over the net. I know some 3.5s that forget to string their racquets and the ball just sails through the hoop.

    Seriously, though, I joke. I do think that 3.5s are also beginners. Like today, I took part in a group clinic for "advanced" players. I felt very good, like i could take on the world. I was hitting amazing angles, all my overheads were solid, and I was spewing topspin.

    yet, in the end, I knew that if i was to play another 3.5 in a singles match, I'd lose. I knew that even though I felt on the top of the world, none of my skills are good enough to beat others at my own very level.

    Tennis is funny that way. your skills are only relevant for the moment. the next day you could play someone who can just destroy you utterly without thinking twice - on a good day.

    On a bad day, you beat yourself.
     
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  14. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    On a bad day, I beat my wife.

    I kid, I kid.
     
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  15. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I decide to check out the adult section. I open this thread. I read this post. I should go back to tips and stay there.
     
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  16. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    No, not really. A 3.5 player would be an intermediate, not a beginner.

    1.0-2.0 Novice
    2.0-2.5 Advanced beginner
    2.5-3.0 Low intermediate
    3.5-4.0 Intermediate
    4.0-4.5 High Intermediate

    If you are interested, here is an ITN/NTRP (USTA) conversion chart:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/73338927/ITN-USTA-Rating-Chart-Comparison
     
    #16
  17. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    That is interesting. At university I was an ITN 3, although I imagine our university sports are not as competitive as in America.
     
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  18. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    Most People here in Germany say the same thing about American College Tennis. German league tennis is a lot higher level than most of American league tennis however.
     
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  19. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Division 1 Collegiate levels would be ITN 2 to ITN 1. Division 2 and Division 3 colleges would consist of players that are a bit lower. Community (2 year) colleges in California usually have players ranging from ITN 6 to ITN 3.
     
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  20. Edburger

    Edburger Rookie

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    I was not top player in university. Win some smaller tournaments, that is all. I do not know if I could have passed ITN 2. Once in university, generally nobody bother with ITN rating. But, many players better than me.

    Swedish players usually not play for university if going professional. I understand, many American pros former college players. College tennis in USA, sounds very tough.
     
    #20
  21. thejuice

    thejuice Hall of Fame

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    Hey man, I love your avatar and your signature!
     
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  22. tennytive

    tennytive Professional

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    This happens a lot. It's mostly people bragging how far they can pee.
     
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  23. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    With age my tennis level has dropped. However, thanks to Kegel exercises, I can still pee at a 5.0 NTPR level.
     
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  24. jservoss

    jservoss Rookie

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    This makes me want to hit 5.5 so much more now. I've never played college tennis, but have been getting closer to 5.5 each year. My beer belly development is quite advanced too though so its starting to slow the progress.

    I just want to prove it is possible without college experience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
    #24
  25. 3fees

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    3.5 is half way to 7.0 Paid Pro


    3Fees :)
     
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  26. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    4.5.
    Can volley with ONE grip, low and half volleys at least mid NML depth, put away any volley above his chest heights.
    Groundstrokes often hit deep, but short angles are fine, penetrating, no beginner can stand any chance of getting 2 back.
    Serves. Wide forehand, into the body, wide backhand, on both duece and ad courts. Very few double faults.
    Solid forcing overheads from short NML.
    Can return almost any serve up to around 120 mph, can return twist serves. Not necessarily for a forcing return, but a return.
    Know it's not kosher to scream during every shot.
     
    #26
  27. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    Your 4.5s are awful good. Put away any volley above chest high. High backhand volley put way is always a given?

    Volley with one grip is lower than 4.5.

    Serves wide, body and T at will? Everyone serves to cedrtain places better than others.

    Return most serves of 120 MPH easily? Depends but if I am returning 120 MPH serves from people who can go wide, body or T at will, I don't see it as that easy.

    Returning twist serves is not too terribly difficult at this level. Once you learn to recognize them, they are one of the easier serves to return.

    I've been anywhere from lower 5.5 when I was young to above average 4.5 today and I don't see that many 120 MPH serves or people who can put balls away at will just because they are chest high. If it is 2 feet from the net and floating, yes that is easy. If it is a person with a very heavy stroke and it is chest high; it is not that easy to just put it away.

    High 4.5 can be good tennis and some players can do some of these things. There are no legitimate 4.5s that can do this at will at any time.
     
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  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Chest high volleys, if you can't volley them into a corner, deep and controlled, you are certainly NOT on your way to 5.0.
    No need to crush chest high volleys from the service line, you only have to angle them away from the baseliner, or hit behind them, or drop volley them.
    120 serves. I know YOU cannot hit 120 mph serves, but by the time you make 4.5, have played in a few matches, you WILL have faced someone who DOES have a 120 serve, and you have to stand in to block them back. Who said EASY? YOU did, not me.
    Twist serves. Almost NO twist serves in 3.5, so you won't be able to return them until you are close to 4.5.
    Yes, my 4.5's can play Open tourneys, never win, but usually go a couple of rounds...not always, of course.
     
    #28
  29. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    I've had a long tennis career at 4.5 (right now USTA thinks I'm a 5.0). The number of people I've faced with a 120 MPH serve or greater I can count on 1 hand so I don't think that is applicable.
     
    #29
  30. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Can the best 4.5 in the world hang with Dante Krum?
     
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  31. dizzlmcwizzl

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    A Rising 4.5, a falling 4.5 or LeeD's 4.5?
     
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  32. mikeler

    mikeler Moderator

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    Or LeeD's prime 4.5?
     
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  33. anantak2k

    anantak2k Semi-Pro

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    LOL

    What if you are a high 4.5 player like me who goes to the net only to shake hands? :p

    Like someone else said a 4.5 can do some of those things but not all. And that's what makes every player unique at the 4.5 level. Some will have awesome serves but ****** returns, some awesome returns but ****** serves, some great groundies and ****** volleys, some great volleys and ****** groundies... and so on...
    If you can do all of those things you mentioned really well and serve to the corners consistently at 120mph... im pretty sure you are much much much higher than 4.5


    Oh and about the 120mph serves... maybe once in a while a handful of player can crank it that high buts its extremely rare. I have played at least 40+ different benchmark 4.5 players in NYC and South Florida... and I have to say, I see 120+ serves maybe once a year. Either you are overestimating a 4.5 serve big time or I am underestimating the serves of players I face (I do have an excellent return game).

    I do have 1 or 2 friends that can crank it up to to 110, 120s. But not too often in a match.
     
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  34. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    The top 4.5 males at my country club would crush any D1 NCAA clown.
     
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  35. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    Do you mean Kimiko Date-Krumm? No, a 4.5 male would have a difficult time hanging with a top 100 WTA player. A 5.5 male player could hang with her. A 6.0 male player could beat her.
     
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  36. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Most of the Talk Tennis 4.5s (based on the videos I have analyzed and assessed) could hang with Date.
     
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  37. coyote

    coyote Semi-Pro

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    Date-Krumm would get 12 games before a 4.5 man got 12 points.
     
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  38. lostinamerica

    lostinamerica Semi-Pro

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    I'll go 12 games before 6 points.
     
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  39. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

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    #39
  40. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Date-Krum is the 97th best female player in the world. The average 4.5 isn't even even in the top 10,000 in the world.

    Sometimes, I think that a large portion of the TT population really have no idea how good a top professional tennis player is.
     
    #40
  41. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    edits for the sole reason of double posting inadvertently.
     
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  42. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

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    we know. collectively we choose not to accept it. "un-logically" i know this to be true enough. using non-formal reasoning. goat logic.

    what were we talking about? date-krum is amazing. def a 4.5 out of 5.
     
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  43. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

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    I think we can all agree that a rising 4.5 could take out an aging Date-Krumm. I mean, she's definitely falling, ranked #97 now. :wink: :wink:
     
    #43
  44. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Some of the top 3.5 players at my country club can out rally Dante. She makes many mistakes that a consistent 3.5 GOAT pusher could capitalize on.
     
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  45. Velvet Ga el

    Velvet Ga el Rookie

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    And I'm convinced that a strong portion of TTers take this place so seriously they can't identify a long-standing trolling effort (and apparently a damn good one at that).
     
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  46. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    It's sad and destructive to the sport to cast such negative light on 3.5-4.5 players.
     
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  47. jservoss

    jservoss Rookie

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    But at the same time, I think a lot of people underestimate the difference between the men's and women's game. I agree, a 4.5 would get demolished by professional women, but that starts to change drastically quicker than most people realize. 5.0 males will hold there serve often enough to make the scores look competitive. 5.5 males would most likely be winning quite often.
     
    #47
  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    4.5 to 5.0 is a huge leap which most players will never make.

    There are 5.0s who were strong juniors or college players when younger, but hardly any who can claim to have started tennis as an adult and reached 5.0.
     
    #48
  49. dizzlmcwizzl

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    Dali ... you made me smile. I love what you do sometimes .........
     
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  50. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    95% of the posters here are 3.0-3.5 but most believe they are much better.

    5% 4.0 and higher

    99% have no clue but posts lots and lots of advice.

    0.5% are qualified and give advice to support their business/brand

    0.5% are qualified and don't bother to give advice.
     
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