What is the NTRP of these players?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by big_j_tennis, Mar 18, 2014.

  1. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    In a challenger? Where?
     
    #51
  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    In a Q, my first year, for the TransAmerica pro tourney.
    Best part is, almost happenned again my 2nd year! Guy is sniffles in first round.
    In second round, guy was hammering everything, trying to lose points before I had a chance.
    But 3rd round, I got served my rightful breadstick/bagels.
     
    #52
  3. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    That tournament became the SAP open? I am surprised you didn't have to have a ranking to get in the qualifier. I guess anything can happen.
     
    #53
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    They gotta FILL the draw.
    I was stringing rackets AT the tournament, so knew about vacant openings.
    SAP is after they changed the sponsor, and moved the tourney from the CowPalance in SanFrancisco TO the SanJoseArena, and I was well into motocross by then.
     
    #54
  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Oh, ranking...
    I had played 13 A/Open tourneys by then, made 3rd round in half of them, usually losing to a top 3 seed.
     
    #55
  6. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    LeeD would crush countless A/Open players of today. It's a shame he was born in the wrong era.

    GOAT LEGENDARY
     
    #56
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I"m sure the player's of today are much better than yesteryear's players, by coaching, by training, and by TV and video.
    Old daze, the players were also smaller, and the occasional giant like Amaya or StanSmith were actually stiffs who intimidated lesser players, until the smaller player's figured out that the speed and the spin of the tennis ball did the talking, not the man behind the racket.
    Sounds like I'm knocking StanSmith. I actually bought 3 SS Wilson's to start my tennis career, but by the time 1977 hit, when I could actually play some tennis, Stan was in decline. I actually copied StanSmith's service motion from year's '74 thru '77.
     
    #57
  8. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Stan Smith would crush LeeD under normal circumstances. But, if LeeD was GOATing Rod Laver GreenGOAT shoes he would neutralize Stan Smith and GOATify him with Blue Star strings and Sergio Tachini RedGOAT polo.
     
    #58
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Stan was 6'3"+ some change, could barely walk by 1977. His old doubles bud, BobbyLutz, was straightsetting him by then.
    No doubt, he could beat any 3.5 level player then by bagels.
     
    #59
  10. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Stan Smith's had terrible lower ankle support. I saw several top tier B level players get the cartilage ripped out from sliding on hard courts.
     
    #60
  11. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    Ok LeeD, I have to ask. Since you always mention about going three rounds in qualifiers for this TransAmerica tournament (which used to be after all a regular ATP event). Are you sure it was a 'qualifying' round as we all understand it? Because apparently back in those days they had a qualifying for the qualifying round. In other word:
    • anyone with few bucks and a can of balls was allowed to play 'qualifying round'
    • the winner(s) went on to, well, a real qualifying round.
    • the winner(s) of that went on to play in the tournament.

    that is essentially the same as it is now with USTA 'qualifying' tournaments for US Open. Everybody can sign up, and you can go three rounds as well - only it does on mean in the slightness that you are close to playing in professional level draw.
    So, are you sure what 'qualifying round' you actually participated in?
     
    #61
  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    The winner of the first Q for Trans'Am went to the first round, and then 2nd, then 3rd, then Quarters, then semis, to lose in the finals.
    The winner of the second Q I played lost in the first round to BobbyLutz, the match after winning the Q. Bobby lost in the 2nd round. He was seeded into the main draw.
     
    #62
  13. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    you sure about that? Because i think what I actually happened was this:
     
    #63
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nope.
    In '78, Kevin went into the first round, the day after he won the Q.
    In '79, PeterPearson played BobbyLutz 2 days after he won the Q I played in.
    Both years, the first and second round of Q was played at the GoldenGatewayTennisClub.
    Both years, we had to adjust to the carpet courts at the CowPalace, two for the 3rd and 4th rounds, then one single court for the first round of the main draw.
    I was still stringing racket's at the CowPalace after I was ousted, so I saw the action and talked to most of the players, who were mostly impressed somewhat a stringer can actually play some tennis.
    Most stringers can't play very well.
     
    #64
  15. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    Well, do you have anything that can be verified? Other than your own memory?
    Because checking here:http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Lu/R/Robert-C-Lutz.aspx?t=pa&y=1979&m=s&e=0# (tournament history for Bobby Lutz for 1979) does not show him playing anybody named Peter Pearson in the main draw of any ATP tournament....
     
    #65
  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Please check 1980.
     
    #66
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Interesting.
    They listed him playing the TransAm for '78, '80, and '81, but not the '79.
     
    #67
  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    They listed him playing PeterPearson in '76, 2 and 1. I watched that match, and the first set looked like a bagel to me, after Lutz got up 5 zip.
    Strange, in '76, I was still a C player, so why would I have watched him play? In '79, his best bud was RalieghZalameda who just graduated from MissionHighSchool.
    Since he played the SF tourney '76 thru '83, it stands to reason somehow he got left out in '79.
    You know player's habits. If they go to a tourney 5 times, why would they miss out on one?
     
    #68
  19. jmnk

    jmnk Professional

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    so other than the fact that you do not have the years correct, and the fact that Lutz --did not-- lose in the second round the year he played PeterPearson you want me to believe everything else you have stated?

    despite this another evidence about pre-pre-qualifying rounds for this TransAmerica tournament (see this: http://blog.timesunion.com/tennis/origin-of-pre-qualifying-and-the-usta-national-playoffs/425/

    quote: "The concept was a success from the start, filling out a 128-player draw for the men’s event.

    It was pretty simple, all you had to do was show up with $20, that was the entry fee, and a new can of tennis balls,” MacKay said. “It was great for the tournament because the local media picked up on it, and I said to everybody, ‘Look, anybody can win this tournament.’ So it got a lot of coverage and became very popular.”

    So popular in fact that players started coming from across California to say they played in the pro Transamerican Open and take a crack at reaching the main qualifying draw."
     
    #69
  20. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Nice find. I was wondering about that, I don't think open rankings are generally considered in ATP level qualifying rounds. Meaning that even if you were the number 1 ranked open player in the country you would not get direct entry into a challenger qualifier without ATP points right?
     
    #70
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Well, I've always said, the statistics are only as good as the guys who typed them in, and the list they have to type from.
    I'm pretty sure Lutz played in '79, because he played the tourney from '76 thru 83, each and every year, but is not listed in '79. Seems strange the only year I mentioned him, he's not listed as playing in.
    You guys DO know, player's are creatures of habit, and usually play the same tourney's every year, if they have fun in them. Obviously, Lutz had fun playing the SanFrancisco tourney.
     
    #71
  22. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    But the point remains that there was a qualifying tourney to get into the qualifier.
     
    #72
  23. Bdarb

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    the point also remains that LeeD windsurfed there and made it to round 3!
     
    #73
  24. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    LeeD would devastate Lutz and Pearson. Double bagel.
     
    #74
  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    There MIGHT have been a qualifying for the Q, but I didn't enter it. I entered at the last moment both years, and the first round of the main draw, with ONE court at the Palace, started less than 2 days after I lost.
    Would be tough to hold another full Q in 2 days, the winner would need to play 2 matches a day leading to the first round.
     
    #75
  26. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    In the second one, they look like good players, but that low camera angle and the lens makes that court look longer than a football field.
     
    #76
  27. mmk

    mmk Professional

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    Playing Canadian Doubles
     
    #77
  28. mike1ace

    mike1ace New User

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    I played pre-qualifying back in 1980 or 1981 if I remember correctly. Both the pre-qualifying and the qualifying were held at the San Jose State courts. There were four draws of 64 in pre-qualifying, with the winner of each going into the qualifying. I got an incredibly good draw and made it to the semis of my draw before losing to I believe Dave Bacon who beat Scott Lipton to make it into the qualifying. Scott could have gone directly into the qualifying but wanted to get some matches in. The quality was mixed where you had a few players better than you'd expect in most open tournaments but you also had quite a few players who didn't belong in an open tournament. Everybody who played the qualifying got a ticket to the tournament. It was interesting because when we went to pick up our tickets we had to go through the players entrance.

    I find it hard to believe that anyone could've gotten directly into the main qualifying without ATP points.
     
    #78
  29. mike1ace

    mike1ace New User

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    Oops! I meant everyone who played the pre-qualifying got a ticket to the tournament.
     
    #79
  30. tennisdad65

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    First video... the rightie in Red shirt, black shorts, and white shoes is ~4.5.
     
    #80
  31. dgold44

    dgold44 Professional

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    The older guys looked about 4.5 to 5.0 level. They did not have much of a serve but groundies looked very solid.

    The younger guys- Bigger serves and more power on groundies but were missing many more shots. Maybe 4.5
     
    #81
  32. itisgregory

    itisgregory Rookie

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    They are at least a 5.5
     
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  33. dgold44

    dgold44 Professional

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    I would say 5.0 not 5.5

    A 5.5 player has a much bigger serve and bigger ground strokes.

    The younger guys were way too inconsistent to be close to 5.5

    Anyways they are better than me lol
     
    #83
  34. Bionic slice

    Bionic slice Semi-Pro

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    vid 1, consistent play but not very over powerful but decent shots. I would say Low 4.5. Would have probably made the Dallas 3.0 that won nationals.
    Vid2: blue shirt was Avg 5.0. He had good pop on serve, moves well, has good strokes, dictated more. Other guy, only kick served, didnt mix up his shots, weak backhand, below avg return of serve. mid 4.0.
     
    #84
  35. J_R_B

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    LOL. It's threads like these that always bring out the dumb in this board.
     
    #85
  36. mike1ace

    mike1ace New User

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    Skerlj was a 5.5, i.e. a very good 35's player at the time. Desrocher is a 6.0, i.e. a good open player winning a couple qualifying matches in futures events. Pardon the spelling of the names.
     
    #86
  37. itisgregory

    itisgregory Rookie

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    Then I was correct in giving them 5.5. The low ratings from others on here shows that they need to carefully re-read the rating definitions then watch the videos again.
     
    #87
  38. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    What they really need to do is watch a video of themselves and then re-evaluate what they think 3.5 to 4.5 level tennis actually looks like on video. LOL.
     
    #88
  39. itisgregory

    itisgregory Rookie

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    That's funny. LOL
     
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  40. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

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    This is a guy who just posted in another thread that he is considering giving up tennis entirely because of injury problems.
     
    #90
  41. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    We all watch the pros play. When we see a video of amateurs the contrast is stark between the two.
     
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  42. mike1ace

    mike1ace New User

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    Having come back to the game after more than 20 years off I guess I don't understand the whole NTRP mess. I see people playing tournaments where they know they are going to win every set easily by playing down. Whoopee! There's an advantage to getting used to winning but then you try to move up to improve. I see all the sandbagging in these leagues where everyone is trying to get an ex D1 player to self rate as a 3.5 so they can go to sectionals or some such. What pleasure is there in winning that way?

    I do understand trying to be the best local, sectional or national player in your age group even if you could play in lower age groups because you are competing with your peers.

    When one sandbags in NTRP tournaments or leagues they are no longer competing with their peers and the wins are hollow at best.
     
    #92
  43. mike1ace

    mike1ace New User

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    BTW, I'll probably have some video taken of myself one of these days to see if there are any obvious areas for improvement, but I'm hesitant because I'd like to maintain my delusions of adequacy.
     
    #93
  44. RalphJ

    RalphJ Professional

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    The first video was 4.0s. The second was 4.5s.

    I guess I came to this thread late. I can't imagine these players being above a 5.0 level!
     
    #94
  45. Gut4Tennis

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    4.5 - 5.0 depending on the day and how many hemp seeds they ate

    5.0 if they ate hemp seeds

    4.5 if they ate GMO's

    If they eat hemp and clean chlorella they can play at 5.5 for 1 set


    In all seriousness

    First Vid
    GUENDULAIN, Alfredo = 4.5 guess
    http://www.itftennis.com/seniors/players/player/profile.aspx?PlayerID=100242882


    second video

    DESROCHERS, David
    Won a few futures quall matches. Lost 36 26 to Reuben Gonzales
    so he's a 5.0 easily - 5.5
    http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?PlayerID=100192372

    ERTEKIN, Hasan = not sure 5.0 - 5.5
    http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?PlayerID=10027445
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2015
    #95
  46. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Agree with you fully, they are competing to be the best of the mediocre nationally.

    The new NTRP age groups are an attempt to get some semblance of playing nearer to one's age group. Eventually they'll return to five year increments, those guys had it figured out right to begin with. You can't fight gravity and mother nature, unless maybe you're Tom Brown.
     
    #96
  47. skraggle

    skraggle Professional

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    #97

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