What is wrong with this picture

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by gindyo, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    it was perfect this is the shot I am dreaming for. A lot of times when I play matches I get this kind of shorter ball and instead of stepping into it and ripping it like that I am just hanging at the baseline with my "modern" open stance waiting for the ball to come to me. When I am watching that other video I showed you where I play a tiebreak I want to scream at myself "steeeeeep iiiiiiiin you idiot" :). I wish I had a coach to do that for me :)
     
  2. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I understand your frustration, but look back at my first comments and you will see I commented on how you used that neutral stance as the problem, not
    the fact that it is what you used.
    It is the balance and lifting issues, which are generally easier when
    you learn a good semi or open stance. You would start with semi and see how that goes. you already have it in you, but have to learn how not to screw it up, lol.
     
  3. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    did you see this one?
    #28 I think
    help any?
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2012
  4. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Yeah I saw it. I have been fallowing you on the other thread about the smarter targets and considering that I understand your point since the spin is most important in order to be able to hit those targets. But I am still not sold on the idea. I cant wait for the spring so I can start playing some matches and put that theory to the test. I will let you know how it goes :)
     
  5. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    That's great, I'd love to hear how it goes for you.
    Spin does help, but they work for slices, volleys and flatter shots as well.
    They are not heavy angles, but enough to keep the opponent off the
    attack if your pace is avg or better and you choose the right one to
    hit to.
     
  6. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Now I know why I love that shot at 0:35s so much - because this^^^ is exactly what I am doing
    Thank you 5263
     
  7. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Now you are cooking!
     
  8. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I never had a coach in my live (could never afford one) everything I know I have learned by trail and error. So that is why my attitude is that I have to try everything before I believe it.
     
  9. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I understand, but I would never guessed you had no coaching.
    Look darn good for self taught, and better than lots with coaching
    for that matter!
     
  10. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    you want to practice both styles? what is your reasoning for this?

    What advantages do you feel a traditional stroke would have over modern? More balls hit out? less spin, control and reliablity? less power? slower racquet speed? longer time to recover for next shot? less possibility to hit wide angles? harder to hit passing shots? less heavy balls? more balls into the net?

    unless you are planning on 'combining' the styles which it seems you are doing now and we all know that is not a good idea as 5263 has noted.

    if you practice both styles you will only become average or less than average at 2 styles instead of becoming good at one style.
     
  11. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    You are not reading again....If you read the whole post you quoted and post #100 you would know what is the reason. I wont rewrite it again.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  12. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Thanks.
    And while we are at it and I have you for free :) lets pick apart that "modern" forehand of mine. I know I am lifting that left foot too much and my balance is all over the place. I tried fixing it and the only way I was able to alleviate it somewhat, was by having my feet wider apart, but that felt kind of awkward, I felt like it affected my movement.
    I can post a video of that experiment if interested

    Something else that also stroke me while I was watching critically my stroke execution is how high I lift my arm with my back swing. Have to experiment with that as well.

    edit: here is the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb0OFQwEuPc
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  13. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    after watching again the video sabala posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ho3FRWm9Pw I think I know where I should start - the loading of the outside foot and exploding off of it is something I could do more of. But I think it will be hard to do, especially in the shape I am in, I don't think I will have the time to set up and do what that guy is doing if the ball is anywhere but coming right at me.
    For now I can only speculate and create theories since it is f...ing winter and dont feel like spending $40 for one hour of practice with the ball machine. Did I ever mention - I hate winter :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "especially in the shape I'm in".....
    Exactly why I posted, "you hit good, YOUR way"......
    For a hint of how to hit good at 220 lbs., search back to Magician of Precision's vids of him hitting. You can hit good, if the ball is incoming with consistentcy of pace and spin. Most players beat a big guy by giving weirdo shorter slices and sidespins mixed with regular deep groundies.
    Big guys hit the snot out of the ball, but have problems making the tiny adjustments needed to handle weirdo slice, short angles, and changes of pace and spin. OTOH, big guys hit the snot out of the ball.
     
  15. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I am not a big guy by any means I am just in my winter shape.... all year long :)
     
  16. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "BIG" is in the eye of the beholder.
    I'm 5'11" and 150 lbs. I think of myself as a "big" guy, move badly, tend to go for the first shot winner, like to smack the ball rather than play out a point. Big guy smacks ball, usually with slower footwork.
    My best tennis bud is 5'11" and 220lbs. He plays like a skinny runt. He messages the ball, he spins his serves IN, he toys with opposition hitting back and forth, he loves to run the baseline for long rallys, and most of all, he hardly ever goes for winners. He might hit hard at times, but only to hit hard, not to go for winners. That is "small guy ball" or what I call .. PUSHER.
    You do what you can do with what you got. Only prowannabe's change what the got to do what they want.
     
  17. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    You don't have to go wider in stance, but just don't get so overbalanced to any one direction. I think you may lift too soon as well, but not sure.
     
  18. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    sorry I had the video setup as private so I don't know if you were able to see it. Now it is public
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb0OFQwEuPc
    I am calling out when I am forcing my self to use a wider stance and and when I am using my normal width. When watched from the side the difference is very subtle but the feeling is very very different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  19. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    actually i did read it. 5263 said you should go modern in the situation and you replied to him 'no i think i will practice both'. so i asked why? what advantages do you see in that situation? if you dont want to answer me that's fine.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  20. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    i think your stance is too wide here. it's an athletic stance but being too wide will make it difficult to sprint to the other side of the court if opponent hits DTL or something.

    If you learn advanced footwork you wont be able to do it with that stance. for example if you have to move quickly to the other side of the court, say to the left, the first move should be w/ your left foot by like turning it and tucking it in and then cross step w/ right foot. that is the fastest way. but with your stance you wont be able to do that move. my guess is that probably right now in that situation you will probably take a full step with your left foot if you want to sprint left right?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  21. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Didn't I say the same thing in post #111
     
  22. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    here read it again

    This should answer your question
     
  23. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I feel the same way but when I watch the pro's they seem to have their feet pretty wide apart at least some of them here is an example
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=U6p5ZdGR4hU#t=149s
     
  24. Cheetah

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    yea that guy is pretty wide. idk. stance should be wider than shoulders for sure but im not sure how wide is too wide really. that was just my gut feeling. maybe 5623 will chime in about it.

    edit: this video is like the gold standard of footwork patterns. fed seems kind of wide too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Def7iMP8G0M

    so 5623 what's the word on this? now i'm curious.
     
  25. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Im sure you see how much better this vid is. Way better balance, leading to better contact, up and across the ball.
     
  26. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Yeah but you are missing one very important detail in the video before i had the machine set to shoot them in the corner and i was trying to return to the middle after every shot, hence the loss of balance. When the ball is in the middle it is easy to look good
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  27. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    you were trying to hit up the middle every shot? oh... ouch. haha.

    well you probably dont care what i think but one reason for lack of control is you are arming it. yes u are rotating but it's not serving too much function at this point. ideally you want the racquet to be whipped around your body by the rotation. you dont want to swing with your arm. the arm should be used for control. the body will supply the swing and racquet speed. you need to think of it as you are hitting with the body. and you are not hitting at the same contact point each time. probably because of being off balance and the arm doing to much.

    you should learn to do a pull stroke. kinetic chain and all that.

    maybe you should practice hitting at a lower pace so you can get the hang of having the legs and body throw the racquet around your body.

    like this. fed is not using his arm here. if you look closely you can see the tension in his chest created by left arm and you can see his right arm stretch in each segment as it's pulled around by torso
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJVF3vqD_kI&t=0m28s
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  28. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I don't know man sorry if I sound like I am ataking you every time but I just cant help it. Is it my English or you have trouble reading in general.
    "When the ball is in the middle it is easy to look good" means that I am hitting the ball FROM the middle of the court, not TO the middle.
     
  29. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    No, I care but only when what you are saying makes sense.
     
  30. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    oh you were trying to return your body to the middle of the court? i see. ok.
    regardless, still arming it.
     
  31. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    so what are you working on in that video? open stance or neutral or both? i guess you are working on open.
     
  32. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    if you followed this tread from the beginning you would have stumbled upon a post from another user asking me what did I think was wrong and I pointed to him that exact thing you are writing about here. I just explained it differently.
     
  33. Cheetah

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    i think you just need more repetitions. it seems your not used to that stance because you are missing the correct contact point a lot. and sometimes using left foot etc. i say just hit more and more.
     
  34. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    yes i saw that but i didnt quite follow your hand sensor explanation.
     
  35. Cheetah

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    also another issue is you are not really loading on your right leg. you are just standing on your right leg. there is a difference. you need to put your weight on the right leg and bend down a little. then the leg is loaded. weight is mass. mass is energy. if it is loaded then your body will want to unload that energy up
     
  36. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    in that particular video i was trying to find a way to keep my left foot on the ground as much as possible. And to do that I tried to have my feet spread wider apart. Wasn't concerned about a particular stance. But when I think about it you can't lift your left foot if you are hitting with neutral stance can you?
     
  37. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    It looks we are seeing the same things after all. I talked about that same thing in post #112
     
  38. Cheetah

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    oh. left foot on the ground? you mean when you strike the ball? i just want to make sure i understand what you are saying.
    no you cant lift leg leg on neutral unless you want to fall down.
     
  39. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    Yep, left foot on the ground (or as close to the ground as possible) when I hit the ball. I noticed in one of the videos where I practice my FH that I am loosing my balance a lot when I lift that left foot
     
  40. Cheetah

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    ok here's another thing i noticed. i could be wrong because im not sure if your stance is too wide. still waiting on 5263 on that.

    but it seems with your wide stance you are not doing enough quick little steps so sometimes u are too close to ball sometimes you are too far from it. you need to get in position where that ball is in the same place every time if possible. so you need lots of little steps. wide stance is ok but when that ball is coming to you you have to do lots of little steps. thats why if u listen to a good player or a pro when the ball is approaching you can hear lots of little sneaker squeaks. they are making lots of adjustment steps to get in perfect position. you are making like 2 or 3 steps to adjust when the ball is near. you have to do more.
     
  41. Cheetah

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    well if you use an open stance and you get a good loading of your right leg and push up the weight is transferred to the left leg automatically and the balance just kind of happens naturally if done properly.

    if you are going to do an open stance you have to put your left foot pointed in the direction of your right foot and have the left on your toes. if your left foot is on it's toes it's just there for balance and that will help put all weight on right leg instead of on left.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  42. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I gave you an example with a pro player who's stance was even wider then mine and I didn't see him have problem with adjusting to the ball, so it cant be the width of the stance. I think it is a matter of getting used to moving with that stance. Yeah it feels awkward in the beginning but so does every thing in tennis when you are doing it for the first time
     
  43. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I think you are onto something here, but I wont know before I go out and try it.
     
  44. Cheetah

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    yea but it looks to me you keep your wide stance when adjusting. that pro is wide and then does the little steps to adjust as necessary and then back to wide. think about it. you can't do a lot of little adjusting steps with your legs wide apart.
     
  45. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    yes try it. it works. left foot on toes just for balance. all weight on the right. almost uncomfortably so. you want your body thinking 'wth? why is all this weight on one leg?? i need to explode and get this weight somewhere else where it's balanced!'
     
  46. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    No, he never goes to little steps all he does is skip steps to the sides. watch it again.
     
  47. Cheetah

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    hmm... yea he is kind of wide. he's making a lot of steps though. yes skip steps is what im mean by little steps.

    i want to hear what 5263 says about being this wide. that guy definitely has nice footwork. above avg i think for pros.
     
  48. Cheetah

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    another guy who has excellent footwork is kohlschreiber. im gona go look at his vids...
     
  49. gindyo

    gindyo Semi-Pro

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    I don't know if you meant skip steps :). You were saying that I cant make many little steps when I have my feet wide. skip steps Ican make no matter how wide my feet are apart. As I said it is just a matter of getting used to moving that way. And doing it quick
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  50. Cheetah

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