What is your quirk?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by floridatennisdude, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. smarog

    smarog New User

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    48
    Wow! My first internet stalker!

    I didn't mean to insinuate that 4.5 is a high level of tennis (although it's a "higher" level than you play). It seems like you've singled me out despite the fact that numerous others have the same opinion. I'd be more than happy to move this conversation offline - I don't want to derail the thread.
     
    #51
  2. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    Be annoyed. Make faces. Decide i am a tool. Resolve never to play with me again. Tell all your friends. File a grievance. Retire.

    I do not care.

    If I need to catch a toss for any reason, I will do so.
     
    #52
  3. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,426
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    I wear black socks when I play, sometimes combined with yellow shoes.
    Yeah, its muy loco but I'm colorblind so what do I care?
     
    #53
  4. Douggo

    Douggo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Does tossing the ball amount to starting the point? If not, are we talking time violations here? I doubt you could strike a serve within 20 seconds of the end of the previous point if you're tossing 5 times.

    As for myself, I return a lot of out serves. And when I'm serving, I call the score immediately before serving, which gives the returner little opportunity to process what I've called, and voice any disagreement.
     
    #54
  5. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    ^Woodrow addressed this on the board some time ago. I am not sure it was Woodrow; may have been some other official.

    I think he said that if you stand there at the baseline ready to serve in compliance with the continuous play rule (20 seconds for our league) and you start your service motion (toss), you are not in violation if you catch the toss. If you must do this more than once, still not a problem because you started your service motion within 20 seconds.

    If you are doing it to stall or some other illegitimate purpose, you could receive a PPS violation for time violation. Obviously, this would be a judgment call.

    I hope someone will correct me if this is not what was said.

    The upshot is that I don't think you have a legitimate gripe in an unofficiated league match if your opponent gets the yips and struggles with his toss. I guess if someone's incessant tossing bothers you, you could ask them not to toss more than once and then file a grievance.

    Good luck with that?
     
    #55
  6. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Who rated you as a 4.0?


    Moonballer? 4-5 Tosses to get a serve in? That has 3.0 written all over it.


    No offense
     
    #56
  7. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Not really a quirk for my opponents as much as it would be if I was playing Dubs....


    I will only serve on the right hand side in which I enter the court.

    If that means I serve second or in the sun, so be it.

    It only gets weird in Mixed when it doesnt go my way, so I let my female partner open up the match serving
     
    #57
  8. cll30

    cll30 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Messages:
    174
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Cindy, I agree with you on most things, but if your toss is really that unreliable, you need to practice your toss. And as others have said, you can practice your toss anywhere. Saying the receiver just needs to deal with it is a total cop out.
     
    #58
  9. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,658
    She is a 4.0 because she tosses many times and gets it exactly right while the 3.0 players rush their serve.

    But seriously, I had an erratic toss till I decided to use my fingers. No, not in that way. Just hold the ball between the first 3 fingers instead of in the palm, and you will find it difficult to toss badly.

    BTW, is there a rule against trying 1000 tosses before serving? Is it written down anywhere?
     
    #59
  10. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Catching a toss is legitimate, once or ten times.

    You can be legitimate and not reasonable.

    You can miss a serve, and I can smack a return into the far corner of the court, or up high, to make you wait or chase the ball ("obvious fault" is very subjective). As a returner, I could hold onto a ball (or two) until actually asked for them (very annoying! I experienced this last year). When sending balls back to you, I could hit them just far enough from you to make you run.

    Multiple tosses are annoying. I have only dealt with it one time in my five USTA seasons, and although I don't think it was intentional, watching a high 4.0 player struggling on a windy night to find the "perfect" kick-serve toss detracted from my enjoyment of the evening and probably hurt my concentration.

    If someone were tossing the ball three or four times per service, I would stop making an attempt at the ball, declare that I had become unready in the midst of all the tossing, and call a let. I am ready when you start your initial service motion, but my readiness can lapse, right? Making no attempt at the ball is proof of intent.

    My point is that an opponent can turn a nice match into a miserable one while staying totally within the rules.

    I'm not saying everyone has to play like me (I chase every service toss like a Golden Retriever, sometimes to my detriment), but there are limits to what is reasonable.
     
    #60
  11. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,581
    #1 Cindy plays alot of tennis and is a 4.0 based on her results.

    #2 She said she used to toss like 3,4, or 5 times ... but not so much anymore.

    #3 A good moonballer can frustrate alot of people, I've seen very good Div I girls hit some nasty moonballs.

    #4 we are talking about womens 4.0 ... and I hate to sound sexist but I think it's pretty much accepted that it's roughly equivalent to mens 3.5 in which you would find lots of people with inconsistent tosses etc..
     
    #61
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,658
    It is - only if you swing at it and miss.

    It is a strange tennis rule which penalizes an attempt to keep the play continuous (hitting the tossed ball) but rewards stalling and subtle cheating (tossing and not hitting the ball).
     
    #62
  13. Chivo

    Chivo New User

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2012
    Messages:
    42
    LMAO.. I was thinking the same thing.
     
    #63
  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,658
    In my experience, many 4.0 women are far more fitter than 3.5 men and have a better backhand, and 3.5 men lose to them (and of course claim to have lost it because of racquet, slow pace of the game, pusher, someone stole their Viagra, etc).
     
    #64
  15. Mike Y

    Mike Y Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2011
    Messages:
    182
    Location:
    Bay Area
    When I see someone struggling with their toss, I am licking my chops. It shows that the server is scared or thinking about their serve too much. I will often then take a few steps forward and try to hit a return winner. If I succeed, then I'll make my opponent a head case and then I have them right where I want them.
     
    #65
  16. msweigert08

    msweigert08 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2012
    Messages:
    142
    Location:
    OH
    I pick my wedgie, smell it, then fix my hair behind my ears.
     
    #66
  17. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    2,033
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I pick my nose a lot, roll the boogers and put them in my same pocket (my left) I put the balls in.
     
    #67
  18. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
     
    #68
  19. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,597
     
    #69
  20. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    I'm sorry you feel that way. I do not intend to start hitting bad tosses because it might annoy you. I will make every effort to make good tosses, but I err sometimes.

    If I toss and the toss is poor, I catch it. I look up to see that the receiver is ready. I toss. If it is poor, I catch it. If the receiver is not ready, I will wait.

    If you wish to claim you were not ready and make no attempt to return the ball, then I guess I will have to serve again. This will require me to toss the ball.

    Funny thing. I don't think I footfault much, if at all. One thing that will cause me to catch a toss is if I feel myself moving my feet to reach the ball.

    So while you may find my serving practices annoying, you are probably FF like mad as you chase tosses. Which is illegal.

    I'll take "annoying" over "illegal" any day. :)
     
    #70
  21. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    LooseCannon, I don't know what your problem is, but you are kind of new around these parts so I will fill you in.

    I am a computer-rated 4.0, and this is my first season at that level. (It's going OK, thanks for asking). My serve is pretty strong for 4.0, mostly because I rely on spin rather than pace. Part of what makes my serve a bit stronger than some others of my level is that I am not going to knowingly chase a bad toss.

    I have a terrific topspin moonball off of both wings. It is a weapon, for sure. I have had 4.0 men praise this shot. Definitely a useful shot at 4.0.

    I used to have some violent toss yips. My previous pro helped with this a lot. He gave me a ball-bouncing routine. Most of all, he told me to make sure I toss slowly with a locked elbow. When I find my toss going off (such that I have to catch 1-2), I focus on that and can usually fix things. Problems are usually elbow-related.
     
    #71
  22. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    1,013
    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Back to my point about taking yourself too seriously.....
     
    #72
  23. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    1,995
    That is funny.lol

     
    #73
  24. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,147
    Kind of a fun thread, almost makes me wish I had a quirk...:|
     
    #74
  25. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,597
    Want to know your quirk? Video tape yourself playing and you will find it! :lol:

    -Fuji
     
    #75
  26. JMcQ

    JMcQ Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Seriously? I know tons of very high level players that struggle with their toss. Although I wouldn't say I'm a "high level player," I am a 4.0 singles/4.5 doubles player and I have a terrible toss. It is not something that I'm proud of; in fact, I work on it all the time. Yet, there are times when I have to toss 3 times before a serve. (This is especially frustrating because my game rises and falls with my serve.)

    Also, Cindy never said she didn't know how to serve. Only that she sometimes tosses more than once.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2012
    #76
  27. Drew_a_blank

    Drew_a_blank New User

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Bay Area
    I readjust my hat in between every point. Also, I always wear a hat.
     
    #77
  28. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Shelbyville, TN
    I do this as well. I wear a wristband on my right (non-dominant) hand and I take the hat off with my right, wipe my forehead, put hat back on. I do this before every one of my serves even if I don't need to and I do it when I need to between other points.
     
    #78
  29. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    That's a little presumptuous. As far as I know, I have never had a foot faulting problem. Maybe I gave the wrong impression: I don't move my feet when I "chase" a toss. I just change my swing path. Also, my toss mistakes are almost never too forward, mostly too far right.

    Since we've established catching the toss repeatedly is legal, what is the limitation? Since you have as many tosses as you want, could you toss it fifty times to run out the time on a timed match once you had gone up a break?

    "Annoying" was probably a bad word choice. "Disruptive" would more accurately convey what I was trying to say.

    I'm not trying to be contentious, and I'm certainly not looking for a fight.

    My point is just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And I will never have to deal with your toss-catch habits, unless I make sectionals on a mixed team, and since I haven't sniffed the playoffs since joined USTA in 2007, that is pretty unlikely.........
     
    #79
  30. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384

    I would love to see where you 4.0-4.5 people play......and fromwhat you say....quite sucessfully........I dont know anyone that I play at 4.0-4.5 level that struggles to THAT extent......

    Its a basic fundamental......its nothing complicated.....a new shot.....like a Topspin lob(not defensive), a tough drop shot, a chip backhand, serve and volley......its basically the first thing you learn when you pick up a racket. It's almost as if I would say.....I have a pretty decent FH......its just.....for some odd reason ....I frame it 4 out of 5 times......but other than that.....its a good shot.

    Im sorry.....you will never convince me that someone that takes 3-5 tosses.....multiple times a service game......is not the level they claim....or some Super Senior trying to save face and compete up. I dont miss-toss that many times a YEAR
     
    #80
  31. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Thanks for the hospitality, C-sphinx!


    Sure hope you can iron out these mental kinks so you can realize your potential at 4.0. You must have an awesome all around game.......because moonballs and unreliable serve(tosses) would get you a pretty quick exit off the court vs decent 4.0s. Are you a Super Senior?
     
    #81
  32. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,975
    Cannon, go back to the original post. This thread was started for us to look in the mirror at our own quirks. There are plenty of threads where folks bi&@h about what drives them nuts. That would be the place to complain about others.

    What do you do, specifically, that would probably annoy an opponent?
     
    #82
  33. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    I understand. I am not looking for a fight with you either.

    Bottom line is this. I stand there trying to hit a good serve. The toss is too low, too far in front, too far behind, too far to the side.

    What would you have me do?

    It sounds like many people think bad tosses are willful. They are not. They are unintentional.

    When my opponents toss multiple times, they often say, "Sorry." I reply, "No problem," or "Take your time."

    Doesn't that sound like how rec players should treat each other? I mean, think about it. There probably aren't many here who are above 4.5. That means we are good rec players, but compared to the pros, we *stink.* Yet some are worried that the precious timing of their precious return will be destroyed if their opponent catches some tosses?

    Rather than get annoyed or get disrupted, maybe we should get over ourselves already and have some understanding that our opponent (who stinks as much as we do) is struggling with her toss.
     
    #83
  34. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,092
    I am 51, so I am playing my second year as a senior (last year 3.5, this year 4.0). I also play 4.0 adult, 7.5 ladies combo, 7.5 and 8.0 mixed. In the fall, I hope to join an 8.5 ladies combo.

    My serve is not unreliable. My tosses can be unreliable, depending on nerves and playing conditions.

    Decent 4.0s, male and female, can be rattled pretty badly by well-timed topspin moonballs over their BH wing. You should learn how to hit one; it will pay big dividends.

    There. That's enough about me. Since we are doing bios, tell us about your level and game. It must extra super-awesome!!
     
    #84
  35. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    2,767
    For a reliable ball toss eliminate the variables.

    *Start the toss with the top of the palm touching the inner thigh to center the body's balance beginning the coordination chain for the toss.

    *Palm facing up, opening the chest.

    *Wrist locked.

    *Straight arm, elbow locked.

    *At full arm toss extension, shoulder touches chin for complete range of motion.

    *Place the ball in front of the racket, tossing to 1 o'clock for a first serve, above the head to 12 o'clock for a 2'nd serve. (If the ball goes into the net, the toss is too far in front, if serve goes long it is too far back).

    *Now practice hitting a million serves.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2012
    #85
  36. dlk

    dlk Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,112
    Location:
    Indy
    No quirks here. I'm a very superstitious/ritualistic person, but do none during tennis, that I'm aware of. I do have a friend, who likes all three balls (in doubles) and only uses one side of his stick for superstitious reasons:confused:
     
    #86
  37. Tar Heel Tennis

    Tar Heel Tennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    North Carolina
    He posts on TT
     
    #87
  38. F L O B B E R

    F L O B B E R Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    140
    I'm guilty of focussing on Cindy's toss issues instead of answering the OP's reason for this thread... (seriously Cindy - work more on that toss so that your bad tosses are "rare")...

    I guess my quirks include scolding myself in the 3rd person when I do something stupid, and I immediately look at/adjust my strings after each point. I also like to hand the balls to my opponent on changeovers instead of leaving them on the court.

    I also notice that I tend to compliment my opponents on nice shots a lot more than I get complimented...not sure if that means I'm a better sport than most or that I don't hit many good shots. =p
     
    #88
  39. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,147
    Don't want to know that bad.

    By the way, I hearby declare that Cindy's toss problem is not an official "quirk," it is a technique issue. If she liked to do 3 or 4 tosses all the time just for the heck of it, that would be a quirk, but such is obviously not the case. So enough about it. :)
     
    #89
  40. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,658
    Do you also line up your Gatorade bottles in a row?
     
    #90
  41. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,658
    Both FFing and catching the toss repeatedly and frequently are cheating.

    It has happened to me only once (in doubles) when an older gentleman caught the toss about 5 times before serving, on his very first serve. The other 3 of us just waited politely and said nothing. He did not repeat it again.
     
    #91
  42. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,975
    Ok, those are rules issues.

    What are some of your rituals or nuances?
     
    #92
  43. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Not make small talk with opponents at any point.......

    When i hit my signature shot......my Top Spin Lob off of a full Ground stroke swing......I tend to keep my pose froze and glare back......kind of like a Barry Bonds or Will Clark home run Stance.......it gets hit so clean and freezes the opponent....I do find myself posing......I know its all cool if you are the one doing it.....I wouldnt think it was so cool if I was getting glared at after they hit a Winner on me
     
    #93
  44. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    You are confusing the terms 'opponents'.....and 'victims'
     
    #94
  45. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384


    I assure you I can hit 'Moonballs' that would bounce near the baseline and jump over you. I feel guilty doing in mixed.....as quite a few women are short....5'6 and under. If one is 5'2....they would hate me. I use ALOT of topspin. I dont call them Moonballs.....just alot of TS 'loopers' and they can put the defender closer to the fence than the baseline.


    Didnt mean to offend you.....I just cant picture someone having that consistent an issue of a basic fundamental. I mean.....when you said 4-5 times sometimes......you didnt think someone may find that odd or unnacceptable......esp. given your 'Oh Well' demeanor.

    YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME!!!!! - Mike Singletary
     
    #95
  46. JMcQ

    JMcQ Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2009
    Messages:
    133
    Good. Then we are in agreement.

    Also...you...should...know..........that.....Mike...Singletary.....didn't...say...that...,...it...was...Herm....Edwards....
     
    #96
  47. CaldwellYSR

    CaldwellYSR Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Location:
    Shelbyville, TN
    Beat me to it! :)
     
    #97
  48. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    Messages:
    960
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Point taken. Yes, the limitations of our tennis should be taken into account and we should be tolerant. I am, and I always have been. We might be visualizing two entirely different circumstances.

    If I looked across the net, and my opponent was clearly having a bad day, I would be the last person to push the multiple toss issue. I know how the yips can be .

    On the other hand, if my opponent was CONSISTENTLY tossing 3-4 times per serve, and then smoking the actual serve, there begins to be a problem. I am diagnosed ADD (not "I'm so ADD", the real thing). Finding and maintaining focus and staying in the moment are a huge challenge. My "get ready to receive" routine is very regimented:
    1. Server is ready; make eye contact. Focus!
    2. Drop into the ready stance. (Look at that Seagull on the fence......)
    3. The toss goes up (thinking "ball, ball, ball" just to keep myself in the present. That guy on the next court has a really nice Head Prestige........)
    4. Start moving forward (still actively thinking about the ball; don't lose focus. That car driving by really needs a new fan belt...... )
    5. Toss goes up; split step, bounce on balls of feet, eyes locked on ball, don't lose focus. (That is a really interesting crack in the court....)
    6. Hopefully, hit the damn thing somewhere inside the lines.

    Keeping focus during the point is easy, at least for me. Starting the point is the challenge.

    In a long singles match, this alone can be tiring. Now, I have to do it 3-4 times per point? So, legal as it may be, I'm reluctant to let someone wear me out with what might be a calculated tactic (I'm speaking in the hypothetical, and not commenting on your particular situation, which you have explained). So, if I think my opponent is gaining an advantage by making multiple tosses, I need to decide if I'm just going to let it happen, or take some action to see if I can discourage the behavior. If the person is having a really hard time with the toss, there is probably not much I can do. If it is a tactic (or a habit), maybe some borderline behavior on my part stamps it out. Either way, the match probably isn't going to be much fun for either of us.

    So help me Cindy, if I ever make it to sectionals, face one of your teams, and they start doing this to me, just remember that I have read Winning Ugly multiple times from cover to cover and I have no shame......:twisted:
     
    #98
  49. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    props to the 2 fellas that correctedf me,,,,,,,, not sure why i changed it......but singletary said I WANT WINNERS
     
    #99
  50. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,954
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    I don't think I have any really annoying quirks or habits during matches. Your quirk wouldn't annoy me at all. I'm 65 and any break in the action is welcomed. :)
     

Share This Page