What made John D Newcombe so good

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by kiki, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    John Newcombe is the last King of the great aussie dinasty that Frank Sedgman started in 1950 and goes all the way through 1974.25 years of utterly dominance with Laver,Hoad and Rosewall being the highlights.

    At the dawn of the open era, Ashe and Roche were considered the two most brilliant players of the new generation, that generation that linked the past greats with the modern era ( with Borg and Connors as their leaders).

    Well,Newcombe emerged as the final and real number one.He won 3 Wimbledon titles, 2 US Open titles, 2 Australian Open titles and a WCT title.He beat the ulmost unbeatable Jimmy Connors of 1974 at the 75 AO F, his last major.He beat Bjorn Borg in one of the best ever indoor tournaments, the much coveted WCT Championships of 1974.

    He couldn´t own Laver, but he owned all the rest great players of those fantastic generations at majors: Smith at Wimbledon, Kodes at the US Open, Rosewall an astounding three consecutive times at both events, Ashe feared him the most and Roche, while beating him a few times also lost against Newcombe at the 69 W SF and the 75 AO SF.He started his career losing to Stolle at the 66 USO F and would end it after Edmondson beat him at the 76 AO F.of course, he and Roche teamed up to make the greatest doubles team of the modern era, with 4 W titles among some other majors.oh¡ and while he was not generally considered a cc specialist, the guy won the Italian Open and the German Open, which are second only to RG on the dirt; at least back in his heydays.

    His serve was considered second only to Vines and Gonzales and maybe his second one was rated as the all time best until Sampras showed up.His FH volley was astounding as was his FH, rated as one of the greatest of all time.He did some nice lobbing and his sliced BH, while not great was pretty steady and he could use it effectively as an approach shot.His stamina was also legendary and that, along his enormous courage and will to win made him known as " Mr fifth set " for it was almost impossible to beat him in a fifth set, as many DC ties can testify.

    Newk was one of the three great dominant players of the 70´s: he dominated the first third, Connors the second and Borg the third.He had beaten both players, as mentioned, at major finals.And he beat Connors at the 73 USO QF too.

    Finally, he was a great dealer and marketing man, had huge financial success sponshoring many products, rackets and clothes lines, with his blue eyes, big moustache and charismatic personality as his major assets.He was also the first ATP president and he was the first one to develop the concept of " Tennis Ranchs" in the USA, just when this sport was knowing a big boom.

    I remember what a french journalist wrotte in his book about the best 70´s players.He said he was half a business man and half a tennis player and with his tremendous stamina he could " drink beer for 4 hours, play tennis for 4 more, sleep just 6 hours and then be ready for a long business dealing for the remaining 10".maybe an exageration, but that summarizes pretty well the great personality of this guy whom ladies all over the world adored and one can just figure why¡¡¡
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
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  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    He beat Laver, however, at the very important 71 US Pro indoors final.

    He didn´t beat Nastase, their only major match, at the 73 Masters semi was for Ilie but Newk had an injury...
     
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  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Newcombe won...17 GS doubles titles.That makes a total of 25 major titles and he also won events that had major status such as the Philadelphia and Rome tournaments.What a beast¡¡¡
     
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  4. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, As usual you forgot Roche as one of the three most brillant players of the early open era...

    Newcombe did not beat Rosewall three times in a row in majors!

    Caution: Worshipping can distort awareness!
     
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  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    read the introduction to my post.That is what Roche was, a big hope that never became as great as his talent would allow him to be by inside and outside factors.

    I can´t understand your disliking for Newcombe.Maybe because he closed Rosewall his own chances to win at Wimbledon?

    Yes, it was weird ownage, wasn´t it?
    Go by your own tip, Bobbyone.
     
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  6. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I use to read your postings carefully including your exaggerations at Newcombe and Fraser and your putting down of Rosewall and Roche...

    I dislike Newcombe??? Ridiculous. I only say that grandpa Rosewall had the edge on him which you can see in the record books.

    Muscles was not owned by Newk or any other all-time great but Connors!
     
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  7. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Where did I exagerate on Newcombe and Fraser? their records and the opinions are taken from the great tennis experts...when did I downgrade Roche and Rosewall? I have started threads on both, but we need to be realistic sometimes Bobby one.

    Tle 1970 final last set was...6-1 for Newcombe

    The 1971 semifinal...6-1,6-1,6-3

    The 1973 FH semifinal...6-4,7-6,6-3

    Yes, extremely close...:)
     
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  8. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, You are just stubborn and refuse to accept the facts.

    You will not find any tennis expert who claims that Newcombe owned Rosewall or that Fraser was a true all-time great! Neale was NEVER (in no single year) a top five player. Even your "darling" Buchholz (whom you always belittle by writing his name wrongly) was significantly stronger than that second class Aussie...

    You always downgrade Roche and Rosewall!!!

    You don't accept the fact that Roche was stronger than Newcombe as long as Tony was healthy.

    You often downgrade Rosewall in claiming that he was owned by Newcombe and similary nonsense. You even don't shrink from calling Muscles "Pockets"...

    Never has a player owned his opponent when needing five sets to win.
    Rosewall was tired in the fifth set of the 1970 W. final because he had played tough singles matches and a doubles final just before. He was already 35 plus at that time. Newcombe had an easy SF. Nevertheless that fifth set was rather close as most games were rather hotly contested.

    Rosewall beat Newk clearly at Forest Hills in 1970.

    Muscles was rather tired in the 1971 Wimbledon encounter because he had played that great but very long QF match against Richey whilst Newcombe had a very easy QF match against Dibley.

    Did Newcombe also own Rosewall when he lost to Muscles in the two big majors in 1974??

    Just to help improve your remembrance: Rosewall is 3:3 in majors against 10 years younger Newcombe and 4:3 in majors.
     
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  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Those excuses rassemble Uncle Toni´s when Nadal loses.

    Roche was never a player of Newcombe´s caliber.History proves that.Fraser achieved even more than Tony, who as I repeated thrillion times was a great talent but could not translate into a great champion.

    In which film did journeyman Butch reverse the reality and make three timer Fraser look " a second class aussie"? Did it happen in Superman? I don´t recall it but it could be since it´s been a long time since it appeared.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
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  10. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Roche is a one timer, Newk an eight timer.

    In terms of countries, like comparing Germany to Belarus or Japan to Malayssia.Not more, not less.

    Newcombe lost three big finals: Edmondson,Stolle and Laver.
    Roche lost to Laver twice, Rosewall,Emerson once, Stolle once.

    Roche´s record at major finals is one of the worst ...much worse than Neale´s...
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
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  11. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, I'm too tired to answer your joking posts about Newcombe, Roche and Fraser. It's really time for you to consider a change of locality. On your new place you will probably have time to reflect about the difference between amateurs and professionals, between an all time great like Roche and a medium player like Fraser...

    Good luck!
     
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  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I did not say that Buchholz in a match made Fraser look that way. I just mean that Neale is generally to be considered a second class Aussie, weaker than f.i. Cooper and Anderson. Winning amateur majors does NOT automatically mean you are a great player!!
     
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  13. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, Roche an all time great compared to Neale.Well, Neale won two US Open and 1 Wimbledon, twice beating GOAT to be Laver while Roche beat...all time great Guylas in his only major final won...OUT OF SIX¡¡¡¡¡¡

    It makes Fed poor record against Nadal pale.
     
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  14. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Who was nº 1 in the 1967 amateurs, Emerson or Newcombe? My vote goes to Newcombe who dominated the second half while Emmo dominated the first half.Close race whatsoever
     
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  15. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    kiki, Difficult question. Usually the experts say Newcombe. Carlo Colussi wrote that he prefers Emerson or at least ranks them equally.
     
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  16. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, it is pretty tough.Emmo´s two finals (Ashe and Roche) were certainly tougher than Newk´s (Bungert and Graebner).I don´t recall their particular Hth that year...but Newcombe won the two biggest events which in those days usually happened to be Wimbledon and Forest Hills ( even with easier finals compared to Roy).
     
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  17. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    I recall description of Newcombe made by a journalist back in the early 70´s.It said that Newcombe was a very busy man yet extremely energetic.It said that he could play tennis 6 hrs, sleep 6 hrs, drink beer 4 hours and have a long business deal for the remaining 8 hrs.

    In case he had a doubles match, his day would probably stretch to 26 hours.Maybe that is why he had no time left to shave his mustache.
     
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  18. Harry_Wild

    Harry_Wild Professional

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    I think it was his aluminum Rawlings tennis racquet!
     
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  19. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    I am thankful for these excellent kiki threads about newk, rochey, orantes, et al. Great era, absolutely tremendous guys. I was lucky enough to see them live as a beginning junior.
    Tennis was tennis, man.

    But in the words of portandia favorite, eddie vedder,
    "The kids of today should defend themselves against the seventies."

    Long live sixties and seventies tennis.
     
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  20. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    You are completely right-They should.anyway it is, as I always said, a matter of taste, context and life experience.
     
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