What makes Simon tough

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by joeri888, Jan 19, 2011.

  1. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    for Federer. I heard Federer said on court that he hopes to never play Simon again. He clearly feels Simon is a tough matchup to him. I don't really get why. What does Simon have that for instance lleyton Hewitt didn't have? To me he's a (worse version) of younger Hewitt. Maybe it's Federer's age. Would Fed school this Simon in 2004? probably yes.. Would 2004 Hewitt school this Federer? Dunno..

    Your thoughts on the Simon vs Fed matchup?
     
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  2. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    He quickly turns defense into offense, uses angles well and can put a ball away when given the opportunity. He's also got a pretty big serve for a smaller type guy.

    In a nutshell, he just has the type of game that exposes Federer's few weaknesses... similar to Davydenko-Nadal.
     
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  3. TMCW140

    TMCW140 Hall of Fame

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    Personally, in the last 3 sets today, i thought he played like an ultra aggressive Murray
     
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  4. aldeayeah

    aldeayeah Hall of Fame

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    I think the question here is, what makes him different to Ferrer, Davydenko or Hewitt (of old times)?
     
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  5. Li Ching Yuen

    Li Ching Yuen Legend

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    Imo he is as quick as some of the top guys, maybe a step slower than Nadal but that's it.
     
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  6. Lsmkenpo

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    What makes him so tough is a slow hard court to play his style.
     
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  7. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Indeed. Especially a guy like Hewitt.. is it just Federer declining? Would today's Federer feel hewitt of old is a bad matchup as well?
     
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  8. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    He's also one of the few out there who is completely not intimidated by Federer and his achievements.
     
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  9. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    apart from being a good defender and very steady groundies, simon pulls the trigger when he sees an opening, it's natural to him. He doesn't seem intimidated by Nadal or Federer. Although he admitted Murray to be his worst opponent.
     
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  10. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    LOL, funny that :lol:
     
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  11. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Are you saying Hewitt loses because he's intimidated? I don't believe that. He just loses because Fed is better.
     
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  12. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    He said, Murray plays the same game but does it better.
     
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  13. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    IMO, Hewitt doesn't have a strong belief in himself when playing Federer any more. Overall however, He's got a decent record versus Federer.

    I was surprised as hell when he beat him in Halle last year... the first time he beat Federer since 2003

    Federer-Hewitt H2H
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
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  14. DragonBlaze

    DragonBlaze Hall of Fame

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    I think Fed is just supremely confident against Hewitt, and usually wont go into long periods of Fed-error mode, whereas with Simon there was obviously this question mark.
     
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  15. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    I agree for him for the most part. Simon got better forehand, everything else is better for Murray
     
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  16. TheNatural

    TheNatural Legend

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    Fed hitting 1 paced shots all match is what makes Simon tough. Simon lapped up the 1 pace. Hard head Fed finally tried something different and played off pace shots for a game or 2 in the last set.
     
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  17. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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  18. mcenroefan

    mcenroefan Hall of Fame

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    I agree with the above: first and foremost, Simon is a great counterpuncher and very tough competitor.

    In the match today, I think Fed dropped a level or two in the 3rd-5th sets. Some UE's creeped in on both the BH and FH, he lost a bit of confidence and started spinning his groundies, and generally just started missing alot of his attempts at winners. Most of his groundies weren't moving through the court and, when he tried to hit through the court, he was missing.

    Simon also started playing better and pretty much was better off the ground than Fed in those sets.

    Candidly, I think Fed's improved net play and net strategy ala Anacone saved him in the 5th set b/c he certainly wasn't getting it done from the baseline in sets 3-5.

    Credit to Simon for a great match and to Fed for finding a way when he didn't have his best...this one could have gone either way.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
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  19. SLD76

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  20. nadalbestclass

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  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I disagree. Hewitt always believes he can beat Federer. When he's lost to Federer, he just hasn't been good enough.
     
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  22. nikdom

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    That 2004 USO final took a lot of belief out of Hewitt.
     
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  23. Wilander Fan

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    Ground level shots of the Federer match showed all of Federer's topsin backhands jumping right into Simon's wheelhouse. I noticed Federer couldnt hit that wide slice serve today either and rarely tried. Simon might have been camping in to take away the angle and forcing Federer to hit the big flat serves but he seemed to lose that one in the third and fourth sets.

    Also, the courts seemed really slow today and the balls really heavy. Maybe it was really damp IDK. Alot of the seeded players dropped at least a set today which indicates maybe conditions were something of a neutralizing factor.
     
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  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Not convinced by that at all. He still gave as good as he got when he played Federer after that. He just wasn't good enough to beat Federer at that point.
     
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  25. Sentinel

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    Not to take anything away from Simon, and i really wish him well (althou most posters here call him the biggest pusher of all time).... i am wondering whether the slow court helped him getting more balls back in play.

    Or has Roger also slowed down the pace of his forehand to reduce errors which makes retrieval easier.

    whatever, it was close and roger pretty much scraped through that vital first break. it could have gone the other way too *shudder*.
     
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  26. TJfederer16

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    he's dangerous becuase he's very disceptive, in his build and his game, he must be very anoyin to play, he can be very aggressive like today but also just keep balls in and never miss, must be very frustrating for players.
     
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  27. Love all

    Love all Semi-Pro

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    Simon isn't better than Hewitt. Nadal has beaten him quite easily a few times So why cant he hurt Nadal? I think he neutralises federer strokes better than hewitt and hits winners in both sides from the back off the court at ease. He also gets free points by keep hitting shots to Federer's backhand.
     
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  28. InvisibleSoul

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    During the 3rd and 4th sets, there's no doubt Federer's game went away from the 1st two sets... but at the same time, Simon's game picked up bigtime.

    Simon was ridiculously consistent on his groundstrokes. Everything was returned back to Federer with interest, even shots he needed to stretch for. He seems to be up there with the very best in neutralizing good shots. Like Federer can hit 3-4 good balls in a row during a rally, but yet because Simon gets them all back deep, Federer still couldn't gain the upper hand. So when ******** appears, he'll eventually shank one to lose the rally.

    I think to be effective against Simon when he's in the zone, you either need to have big groundstrokes for outright winners, or you need to play bigger angles. Just mindlessly rallying against him down the middle of the court looked to be a completely useless exercise. Federer was hardly playing any big angle shots yesterday... every shot always seemed to be well within reach for Simon.
     
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  29. kanamit

    kanamit Hall of Fame

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    I think Federer was annoyed at Simon's speed combined with the slowness of the courts. It was almost like an indoor clay court, except without the dirt that gives Simon footing issues.
     
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  30. nikdom

    nikdom Hall of Fame

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    - Simon absorbs pace well on both wings and can use that pace to send it back.

    - His shots stay deep.
    - He can hit winners off both wings even against the top guys
    - He moves and anticipates well
    - Returns well
     
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  31. fundrazer

    fundrazer Hall of Fame

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    I think this about sums it up. One of the things some people fail to realize is that despite his "pusher" label Simon can really whack the ball from both sides.
     
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  32. aceX

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    It's because Gilles is a vampire
     
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  33. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    Can't believe I missed a war, should have stayed up later :(
     
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  34. TBrady

    TBrady Banned

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    He can't generate his own big power like Del Potro, he is a fast counterpuncher.
     
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  35. icazares

    icazares Rookie

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    You're right on. Dangerous player. Wanna see him live.
     
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  36. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    all true.

    plus...you actually have to beat him because the guy doesn't choke.
     
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  37. cucio

    cucio Legend

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    I couldn't see the match because my !@#$ ISP decided today was a good day to have 9-hour downtime in my region, so this comment is just guesswork.

    Simon, like Murray, excels at neutralizing big shots. Aggressive players tend to become impatient against them and start going for too much. These guys try to lock the rally into a mesmerizing slice/moonball exchange and all of a sudden, blam, flat winner down the line. Look at how Gulbis melted like the friggin' Wicked Witch of the West when he couldn't put a single flat bomb past Gilles.

    I don't think Hewitt has that kind of game, he is fast on his feet and very good in returning big shots, but he doesn't throw the junk those two do.

    The way to handle a player like that is how Nadal did in 2009, when Simon was making big blips in the radar, right after beating Fed twice and Nadal once. He just fed him junk for junk, until Gilles went meekly away in straights. But Roger is probably too stubborn to bring down his game to that level.
     
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  38. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    Simon doesn't drop the ball short at all when his game is on. He just hits that flat ball deep even from a defensive position 2 meters behind the baseline. I think it's kind of unique.
     
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  39. forthegame

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    Hang on, why doesn't he do as well on clay??
     
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  40. ruerooo

    ruerooo Legend

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    Roger dismantled Lleyton in, I think, the 3rd round last year.

    Gilles has what appears to be a wider shot selection, more endurance, and though Lleyton's quick I think Gilles might actually be a little faster.
     
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  41. Tchocky

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    Smon is a real riddle. No real weapons to speak of just sheer determation and a strong desire to get the ball back just one more time.
     
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  42. InvisibleSoul

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    I think another one of Simon's strengths is that he's really good at anticipating where the opponent is going to hit shots... and combines it with really quick reactions to get to the spot.
     
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  43. Shady_Sawyer

    Shady_Sawyer Rookie

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    I think its just a match up issue with Federer. I mean he is easily beaten by Djokovic, Nadal and Murray. Look at their H2H's with this guy.... which means he is not as great as you people make him out to be. Just a new Hewitt who Federer has trouble figuring out.
     
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  44. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    He doesn't move as well on clay as he does on hard. All the quick cuts and scampering he displayed in this match would not be as easy on clay or grass. Hardcourts allow a player to cut and move on a dime, natural surfaces the movement needs to be a little more controlled to stay balanced.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2011
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  45. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Absolutely. Those who call him a moonballer are completely clueless. Simon hits with consistent depth (even playing defense) and can flatten out shots at will from both sides.

    Disagree. He's got a number of weapons... athleticism, determination, spirit, FH, BH, Serve, anticipation, etc. You don't get to be a top 10 player with no weapons.

    It was sublime watching him play Lu. It seemed on every one of Lu's put away shots he was right there. He missed a few but he was still right there. That puts a ton or pressure on an opponent who feels he has to go bigger and better with each shot.
     
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  46. BobFL

    BobFL Hall of Fame

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    And that would be one major weapon to start with. I have never seen a player so deceivingly good in my life . Never. He is not flashy at all and some people just don't realize how tough he is.
     
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  47. Dwight Schrute

    Dwight Schrute Banned

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    He eats a lot of beets.
     
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  48. pennc94

    pennc94 Semi-Pro

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    Saw him up close on a practice court this summer. He has to be the quickest mover I have seen. He looks fast on TV but seeing him move in person was eye-opening.
     
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  49. db379

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    Simon beat Nadal at the Madrid Master a couple years ago...
     
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  50. IvanAndreevich

    IvanAndreevich Legend

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    Yes he can. Just not on low balls. He has no problems ripping 100 mph shots from spinny balls.

    Something that Hewitt can't really do.
     
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