What Murray has achieved is nearly incalculable

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Danny_G13, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    158
    I don't think there's a poster on here who'd disagree this is the strongest era in the history of mens' tennis.

    Britain has never produced especially good tennis players, especially males. Murray has risen in a drought of tennis quality, made 4 slam finals against machines, then won Olympic gold against one of them before beating another to win a grand slam.

    I don't really feel like the media have truly given Murray the full credit he deserves. They've certainly applauded his achievement courteously, but this double on his part honestly in this country deserves wild celebrations.

    He's done something quite, quite incredible.

    Am I being over the top here or has he perhaps not been lauded as much as he should have?
     
    #1
  2. Matheson

    Matheson New User

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    90
    Nope, Murray has been lauded quite enough for his single slam win against an absent Nadal and tired Djokovic.
     
    #2
  3. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,581
    #1 Nadal was not even there
    #2 Federer was beat by Berdych who then played sub par against Murray
    #3 The wind obviously favored Murray in the finals, had it been a nice calm day I seriously doubt he would have won

    In the grand scheme of things, the events unfolded very much in Murray's favor to help him win this.

    He's a good player but more on par with Roddick, not in play style or anything but in the sense that he might win a major or two and even hold the #1 ranking for a short time but he will never be the dominant player of his era.

    He's lucky he's 6 years younger than Fed as well or he may not have been able to get any.

    But I still congratulate Murray for getting a major title and a gold medal. Something 99% of tennis players will never get.
     
    #3
  4. SempreSami

    SempreSami Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,627
    Location:
    UK
    It's not Murray's fault he didn't get to play against chumps like Philippoussis in the final.
     
    #4
  5. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Lol...how did his win against an absent Nadal go? Did he just hit balls against a cardboard cut-out of Rafa or something? :)

    As for tired Djokovic. Well, I guess HE must have got lucky when he beat a tired Murray in the AO sem-final in January? :cool:
     
    #5
  6. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    Er, no.

    Federer's Wimbledon win should be lauded more.

    He is 6-7 years older than his rivals, well past his prime yet manages to land a major and become #1.

    On the other hand, Murray is in his prime and only had to go through Djokovic to win the US Open.
     
    #6
  7. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,563
    I would. If you call bs on all that 'weak-era' nonsense (as I do), it stands to reason you would also call it on the 'strong-era' nonsense, as they are one and the same, only reversed. ;)

    Oh, and what Murray has done is easily 'calculable'--he's won one of the four grand slam tournaments in any given year, more specifically the fourth one, ie the US Open--which, considering the recent (and not-so-recent) tennis history of his country, is quite a feat. Overhyping it seems to run rampant in a few posts, though... :)
     
    #7
  8. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,563
    Yes and no. In a sense, you're perfectly right. What a 31-year old Federer did at Wimbledon was admitedly harder than what a 25-year old Murray did at the US Open. But considering the pressure and the mental hurdles Murray had to overcome to win his first GS tournament (and he did his level best to lose it each time he was in a position to win in the first two sets, so it was anything but easy), his win is nothing to scoff at, quite the contrary. ;)
     
    #8
  9. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    786
    I'm not underrating Murray's achievement. To win a Grand Slam is definitely deserving of applause. But the point that OP makes, that Murray isn't getting lauded enough I find completely ridiculous. I live in Australia, and Murray is all over the news. Heck, the BBC would probably replay the USO final for the next few weeks.
     
    #9
  10. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    So what? Murray has beaten Nadal at the USO before.

    Well, silly old Fed and Berdych. By the way, Murray played sub-par against half of HIS opponents, probably including Djokovic, but HE managed to come through. Why couldn't they?

    Oh the wind factor again. Like it only affected Murray's opponents and not him!

    Absolutely. That's why he almost went out against Lopez and Cilic and could have lost to Berdych, wind or no wind. Yep, everything just fell into his lap, didn't it?

    Only time will tell with that one.

    So I guess both Nadal and Djokovic are also lucky to be 5 and 6 years younger than Fed?

    The OP was over the top in his comments. But that's still no excuse for putting down Murray's achievement with these kind of clicheed,tired and ultimately invalid arguments.
     
    #10
  11. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Imagine if Murray had won Wimbledon to go along with Gold and US Open. He would have done a Serena Williams. And Murray was fairly close to being 2 sets to 0 up over Federer in that Wimbledon final. Although I wouldn't be sure of Murray winning the match even if he had won that 2nd set.
     
    #11
  12. Seventeen

    Seventeen Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    268
    Quoted for truthacity.
     
    #12
  13. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    It was a calm day/night at the Australian Open, and Murray took Djokovic to 7-5 in the fifth set. The wind isn't the main factor in a match between Djokovic and Murray. Murray has had some awful performances in the wind by the way (including a 6-1 6-2 loss at Indian Wells vs Nadal).
     
    #13
  14. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    12,883
    Pretty much.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    #14
  15. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    158
    It does seem that opinions around here, when others disagree with them, are rather chided.

    There's a real lack of respect around on this forum.

    Why?
     
    #15
  16. Magnetite

    Magnetite Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2011
    Messages:
    907
    It's definitely a good excuse for wild celebrations.

    In fact, most intelligent people find any excuse possible to wildly celebrate.

    I'm not a big Murray fan, but if someone is throwing a wild celebration, count me in.
     
    #16
  17. OTMPut

    OTMPut Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,328
    I am not a big fan of Murray. However win is a win. You still have to get to the finals and take 3 sets off a #2 player. He nearly lost it and in the end he seemed to have overcome his familiar demons.

    Good for him.
     
    #17
  18. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Three words-

    bitter. federer. fans.
     
    #18
  19. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    Messages:
    31,131
    Location:
    Somewhere under the weather ;)
    1. Like Nadal mattered. What if he had gone out in round 2 to some Rosol ? If Murray won WO, would we have still said he didn't face Nadal ?

    2. That often happens. Even Nadal played a subpar Berdych who had beaten Fred (IIRC).

    Tsonga beat Fed two years back and then played "subpar". So what ? These things happen.

    3. The wind favoring - subjective. And even then we don't really know if Murray would have lost without the wind. It's hypothetical.

    All your points are things that generally happen. Sorry but your congratulations in the end have no value after totally discrediting his win.

    Going by the above, Murray should wish he had just lost again. He's getting it worse by winning than losing, lol. :rolleyes:
     
    #19
  20. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    Its started, indeeds started it has. The OP is jus a more articulate version of a troll in my eyes.

    If you think winning your first major against a reigning Grand-slam Champion is easy, how about asking the guy who did so himself, only half an hour after the event...???....

    "I don't mean to mean disrespectful to any other players, but you know when Federer won his first slam , it was against Philiposous who never one won, Rafa against Courtia who had never won one and Novak against Tsonga, you know and when I had played in the slam finals, it was against Roger who is the greatest player ever and against Novak."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxQCq...ailpage#t=100s

    Now, we all know Andy Murray, he is not insincere or dishonest about how he is feeling, ever, unlike (And I'm sorry to bring this up, its not through hate) but unlike Nadal, who very much plays it candid in interviews. Murray says exactly what he is thinking/feeling. Never will he compromise or make statements simply made to "sound good". I also have no doubt in my mind that Murray has more credibility when talking about how "hard" and "difficult" the route to Olympic Gold and US Open double glory is, than lets say, you.

    So keep dissecting his draw's in both competitions and talking about how a bloke that never sweats, relies on amazing fitness or suffers serious injuries was fatigued. Keep doing this for the next few months and if Murray loses in the Semi or Final of the Australian Open, you can do it again until Wimbledon. (And again, and again) .. because that's what you trolls specialise in.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    #20
  21. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,541
    Location:
    Sweden
    BS. Even if Nadal was there, he probably would have lost to Murray. Andy is a better HC player. Djokovic has spent less time on court than Murray. Murray was tired, not Djokovic.
     
    #21
  22. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    This X the amount of slams the top 4 have put together with nought's on the end of it.
     
    #22
  23. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2007
    Messages:
    6,541
    Location:
    Sweden
    And Rafa's final opponent on his first major was the legendary Puerta, and federer had the inconsistent Philippousis.
     
    #23
  24. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    You are too much of a casual follower of tennis to ever understand entirely what Murray has achieved, despite your final statement.
     
    #24
  25. tacou

    tacou Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2007
    Messages:
    7,240
    some people's interpretation of competition is so strange. Nadal (whom I love) was embarrassed by ROSOL at Wimbledon and hasn't played tennis since. Federer (whose having an unbelievably good year not simply for his age, but for his spectacular pedigree) got annihilated by a mentally weak, 1-time slam finalist.

    Murray worked through his draw, handled extremely difficult conditions in the SF and battled elements, a near mental collapse of epic proportions, and the best hard court player in tennis/defending USO champion to finally win a slam.

    There are no asteriks for this win. In fact, Murray was close to elimination in the QF. Down a set and 5-1 just a few hours before Roger was eliminated, this tournament was very nearly Novak's for the taking.
     
    #25
  26. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Nadal was embarrassed? 6-4 in the 5th set, vs a player who hit the ball harder than anyone who's ever played Nadal. That's a good loss in my book. It shows it took something special to beat Nadal. And even then, it was a very narrow loss. If Murray played like Rosol, he might have beaten Nadal too in the past at Wimbledon.
     
    #26
  27. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Quoted for truth. Great post and absolutely spot on! :cool:
     
    #27
  28. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    12,883
    Who is the 1 time slam finalist?
     
    #28
  29. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    I love how you have to put cherries on the top of everything you say mate. "harder than anyone who's ever played Nadal?" You can't be much of a Nadal fanatic. Tsonga, Australian Open Semi Finals. Soderling, French Open 3rd or 4th Round? Okay then.
     
    #29
  30. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    I saw all those matches. And Rosol has them beat, no doubt about it. Ask anyone else who saw the Rosol-Nadal match. Rosol was in the zone and going for broke, more than anyone I've ever seen on a tennis court. He also had the right surface.
     
    #30
  31. Danny_G13

    Danny_G13 Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    158
    A troll posts something incendiary specifically to get a reaction and to cause pain.

    Hardly my intention at all - it was just a valid observation of how the press has portrayed his victory.

    But I am glad you view me as an 'articulate troll' - I try to make sure I attract a novel insult daily. Good for the glands.

    That said, the rest of your post appears to be agreeing with me, or is really strangely composed.

    So, if that's the case, I'm confused as to the troll moniker.
     
    #31
  32. helloworld

    helloworld Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2006
    Messages:
    4,670
    You are just too funny. :lol:
     
    #32
  33. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    This is the person my post was aimed @. Apologies to the opening post.

     
    #33
  34. syc23

    syc23 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,258
    We'll just have to wait and see when Murray beats either Fed/Djokovic/Rafa back-to-back to win his next slam to shut all the haters up. Until then, Murray is the 2012 USO champion and no of you haters can change it ;)

    Vamos.
     
    #34
  35. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    You know what it is, it's posters being pedantic about the "name". Too-many people on this board are obsessed with the name, if its not a big name that the tennis globe are immediately aware of, it doesn't count. It wouldn't matter a jot if Monaco came out and played tennis to the standard of a Djokovic and knocked Del Potro out in a Grand-slam, people would undermine Del Potro and start writing him off.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    #35
  36. Tennis_Maestro

    Tennis_Maestro Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    Messages:
    4,075
    Location:
    England London
    No, we won't, he's beaten Rafa in slams on hard-courts in the past and regularly beats him in Masters Series. Djokovic he jus beat and he beat the bloke that beat Federer. End of discussion. Or else we can start igniting the debate about how Federer had it easy to win the French Open. Making him lucky to carry all 4 Grand-slams.
     
    #36
  37. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Lol....don't you believe it. Even if Murray were to take out Fed/ Djok/ Rafa back to back to win all 4 Slams in one calendar year, many on here would say he just got lucky because:

    a) He had an easy draw.
    b) Nadal was injured.
    c) Federer was sub-par.
    d) Djokovic was too tired.
    e) It was just too windy for any of his opponents since, as we all know, Murray is the only player that can handle windy conditions.

    :)
     
    #37
  38. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,636
    I don't think Britain not having champions for a long time is directly related to this. Probabilities don't work that simply, and Britain is not some place with no tennis infrastructure. It is not like a child succeeding in spite of poverty. The real reason for his win is that his window opened with Nadal's injury and Fed's aging.
     
    #38
  39. Strategy

    Strategy Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2011
    Messages:
    658
    Why do we need a new thread every day about Murray's win.. cant we use 1 thread?
     
    #39
  40. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    8,027
    Location:
    Pazardjik, Bulgaria
    Over the top for sure.

    Reality will hit you in the next 6 months.
     
    #40
  41. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2011
    Messages:
    13,680
    Location:
    Manchester, UK.
    Hear, hear! :cool:
     
    #41
  42. JMR

    JMR Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Yes, you're being over the top. Winning a slam is not an "incalculable" achievement; it's winning a slam. It's happened many times in the past and will happen many time in the future. Great, but not rare.

    Any player who wins the U.S. Open deserves a lot of credit. But he does not deserve extra credit simply because other players around him have won more slams than he has. Why isn't he the one who's won more slams?
     
    #42
  43. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,741
    Location:
    Dundee
    A British player winning a slam is a very big deal.
    And the manner in which he won it having lost 4 finals, being aware of countless morons saying he will never win one or when will he win one, and then to lose the Wimbledon final and follow it up by straight setting Djokovic and Federer to win Olympic Gold then follow that up by fighting his way through a very tough draw with some tough matches and on top of that have to overcome Djokovic in a grueling 5 sets, to me that is a quite remarkable achievement.
    To do all that, with that pressure and competition and previous bad fortune, and at the end of it all lies the first British player in 76 years to win a slam.
    The effect on British sport and tennis could actually be almost incalculable.
    Maybe not for a pile of bitter ***** who can't hack it but for normal people, it is quite fathomable.
     
    #43
  44. JMR

    JMR Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    417
    Primarily to the British. To the rest of the world, that fact is just an attractive historic sidebar (i.e., more than a footnote, but not the lead story) to the U.S. Open result. Many other recent slams have had historic features as well: Federer's record-tying seventh Wimbledon; Nadal's record-breaking seventh French Open (and denial of Djokovic's attempt at a NCYGS). As a general tennis fan, I certainly wouldn't say that the end of British slam futility is a more significant story than these all-time records. If it is to the British, of course that's fine.

    Lendl lost his first four finals. Stolle lost his first five finals. Agassi lost his first three finals. Clijsters lost her first four finals. All were denigrated and abused for their failures.

    Murray's finally coming through was great, for both himself and his country, but not unprecedented, nor "incalculable."

    Ad hominem. Surely you can do better than that.
     
    #44
  45. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    12,883
    Fedex can be 'over the top' (to keep in line with the spirit of the OP's first post) but he is at heart a good guy. At least so it seems. Some people feel so strongly about something they cannot see the obvious, it's almost like love. ;)
     
    #45
  46. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    507
    Might as well use 5 or 6 Murray threads, as that is the way of the federer fan. This is Murray's world now.
     
    #46
  47. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,741
    Location:
    Dundee
    Thing is people keep trying to compare Murray to Federer and Nadal and say he's nothing compared to them so his slam is no big deal.
    Players of that calibre are way out and we don't expect Murray to ever get near that success.
    We and I'm sure he is more than happy with the one and that one is massive for Britain especially the way he achieved it.
    If Murray ever attains more well that's a bonus.
    We don't expect him to have the success of Federer or Nadal or even Djokovic.
    And Russell yes I am a good guy but some of the *****, yes ***** JMR (not referring to yourselves) sometimes drive me round the twist with their blinkered views. It's a forum with people I don't know so why?
    And I've been one of Murray's biggest critics over the years and always strived to see things with an objective eye so my 'love' is not blind.
     
    #47
  48. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    12,883
    But you refuse to acknowledge his pushing :lol:
     
    #48
  49. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,741
    Location:
    Dundee
    Don't forget the wind.
     
    #49
  50. monfed

    monfed Guest

    I agree. It's nearly incalculable how past-his-prime Federer aka ******* is #1 in the strongest era of men's tennis. Truly remarkable. :)
     
    #50

Share This Page