what NTRP is this kid?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by formula16, May 1, 2010.

  1. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Currently a 3.0--would be a 2.5 in SoCal.

    If he is willing to put in the effort, practice for several hours a day, defer academics and social functions, hire a top private coach, hire a personal trainer, spend 15-20 hours a week on strength and conditioning training, I think he could be a top 3.5 or low end 4.0.

    The main feature of his game that is lacking is power. He can have any shot in the book and the best footwork in the world, but without the power to back it up, ultimately he's just a pusher.
     
  2. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Agreed - good power for junior but lack of power for adult. Kid has great looking strokes and good consistency. But, at adult 4.5 level, the ball would be coming with more pace than he is used to seeing and he would see a lot more variety - slices, kick serves that actually kick, topspin forehands that bite the court and bounce up, players that can attack the net and volley and who are taller than 4'8" making it difficult to lob over them. The kid loses 90% of matches to 4.5 level adult players.
     
  3. sunof tennis

    sunof tennis Professional

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    You do know he is 12 right? I ran through this post quickly but the main problem is with the question. Really, who cares what a 9 or 12 year's old adult NTRP would be? The issue is, if he wants to pursue tennis further, does it appear that he can.
    In his favor, his strokes are very fundamentally sound. His footwork is very good for 12 and amazing for a 9 year old. Unfortunately, we don't know yet what kind of athlete he will end up being. One of the main things that separates the top 4 in the ATP is they are all world class movers. As for power, I wouldn't be concerned at that age. However, we don't know if how big he will end up being. Will he be 6' or 6' 2", 6'4" or 5'8"? Not saying he couldn't be a pro at 5'8" but it clearly will be harder.
     
  4. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. This isn't 1976 when all you needed was to be able to hit a ball off a 65 sq. in surface into the court repeatedly to be a good tennis player; the quality of your game, especially at the recreational level, is measured by the radar gun and by the number of revolutions per minute, not by the dependency and reliability of your strokes.

    I think a lot of people underestimate just how good a 4.0 is. If a professional tennis player is a 7.0, then a 4.0 is over half way to being a pro. Is this kid half way to being a pro? I don't think so.
     
  5. Photoshop

    Photoshop Professional

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    Huh? Not sure if serious :-| Is a 4.0 half as good as a 7.0? Is the difference between 3.5 and 4.0 same as the difference between 6.5 and 7.0?? If one takes 3 years to become a 4.0, does it mean he will be a 7.0 in 6 years???

    The 12 year old kid in the video will annihilate 4.0s. I don't know why some of you are saying he's lacking power. He's got the techniques down... he doesn't need power to beat 4.0's or even 4.5's.
     
  6. Avles

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    I'm pretty sure TTMR is joking. TennisCJC on the other hand appears to be serious, and I think he's wrong.

    A little more info on this kid is here:
    http://rankings.tennis.com.au/breakdown/Alexei-Popyrin

    Also, it looks like he's winning 4a categoria tournaments in Italy:
    http://www.tennisbordighera.it/news_leggi.php?news=187

    That's about a 4.5 level tournament I think, and he won the final 6-3 6-3.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  7. Magic of tennis

    Magic of tennis Semi-Pro

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    I wonder if the kid came from San Francisco. I saw one kid looks like him but maybe younger than this kid playing in the summer tennis camp in San Francisco. He was good. We need many more those kids to bring back world #1 title in USA
     
  8. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    Lol, that was one of the funniest threads i have ever read...

    Idiots.

    In your NTRP terms, he is going to bagel anyone under 4.5, simple fact.

    LeeD, the Juniors of the 70s and even the 80s could barely play at all in comparison with the top kids going around today, you need to update your understanding. Drop and lob him? LOL!!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  9. RyKnocks

    RyKnocks Semi-Pro

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    This reminds me of the Prince of Tennis anime. This kid is gonna be beastly...
     
  10. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    umm no ?

    no way hes a 2.5 ANYWHERE , and at 3.0 consistency will win you matches since a 3.0 usually can't sustain a rally more than 4-5 shots (in practice yes, in a game no)

    I wouldn't put him any lower than 3.5 , higher now if you look at his older videos.
     
  11. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    In the video he's 9 years old. He therefore is not capable of playing on a full-sized court. Also, since he isn't playing Quickstart he will never be any good at tennis.
     
  12. ordinarymangoe3

    ordinarymangoe3 New User

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    Wow I would double bagel this kid...... then again im 13.. lolz
     
  13. GuyClinch

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    Kid could probably play with 4.0s. If we are talking about LEAGUE RATED male 3.5s and 4.0s they will give him some trouble though.

    Truth is most people you meet who don't play in leagues vastly exaggerated their skill level. Most so called 3.5s are 3.0s or 2.5. Most 4.0s would get crushed in a 3.5 league and so on.

    Secondly you look ALOT better hitting against a pro. Whereas in a match this kid will be fed all kinds of spinny junk. This holds true for amateurs. This is why so many women pay good money to hit with a pro. They want to feel they are 'good' at tennis. And the way a pro can hit will make them feel that way..

    That being said off the ground his strokes are going to be better then most people - so he should be able to use that to beat the some of the 4.0s and all the 3.5s.

    He shouldnt be playing matches with adults though. With the wrong kind of player it would really mess up his development. As some of the counter strategies (a very western grip for example) would hurt him as he grows up.
     
  14. lethalfang

    lethalfang Professional

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    Well, I'm pretty sure a 12-year old Agassi would bagel a 9-year old Agassi every single time.
     
  15. JustBerdIT!!!

    JustBerdIT!!! Banned

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    Once again remember, he is only rallying, Im not saying this kid is a 2.5 to a 3.0 that just ridiculous, he could probably beat a solid young (28 year old) 4.0 player in a close match. I know from experience that I used to as a junior and all juniors now play 10 times better rallying and practicing, the mental strength is just not there. now if this kid was a 30 year old and this good, yes a 5.0-5.5 rating would be applicable to him. But the mental and physical strength is not there. Also, the saddest part is most kids this good at this age either burnout or just lose interest all together. the once top juniors now on ATP (Roddick, Fed, Nadal, Berd, Gasque) are a 1 in a 1000 kids. And you also have to account some kids go to college and play D1 and then they just go into a professional job at a club. Alot of them just want to kick back and relax and make a non stressful living off of tennis, and some eve quit all together after H.S. or College.
     
  16. HunterST

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  17. TTMR

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  18. Thud and blunder

    Thud and blunder Semi-Pro

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    I think this guy would kill most 4.0s despite their 100mph kickers and devastating forehands...he'll find a way to adapt.
     
  19. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    I'd say about 4.0.
     
  20. Avles

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    You mean the earlier video (age 9)? He seems like a strong 4.5 at worst now (age 12).
     
  21. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    The original video was when he was 9 yo. At age 9, he would start every point on defensive against good 4.0 and above. His serve at 9 yo was below average for 4.5 level and the serves coming at him at 4.5 would be better than he sees at 9 yo open level.

    At more recent age 11 or 12, he would likley beat majority of 4.0 and compete well at 4.5 level. Possibly hang with some 5.0s.
     
  22. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Yeah, 4.0 for the original video. For the update, he looks 4.5-5.0.
     
  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    At 9, he's susceptible to many gamesmanship displays, drop shots, lobs, and "boring" tennis.
    At 12, even if his groundies don't improve whatsoever, he can handle most if not all 4.5's, give push 5.0's and non thinking 5.0's trouble to boot.
    A smart 5.5 can still pummel this kid.
     
  24. Avles

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    Every now and then I remember this thread and check in on this kid to see how he's doing. He's now 14--he reached the QF at Les Petits As this year, and just played a Futures qualie in Spain (lost in the first round). Looks to me like a pro career is still a possibility for him!
     
  25. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I doubt that kid would lose to 3.5's

    Competitively he Looks like a 4.5 to me ... limiting factor is his size. His serve will be easily attackable and he will have trouble covering the whole court at the pace a 4.5+ can generate.

    Skillwise he looks a bit higher and will likely grow up to be a player that hardly cares about NTRP.
     
  26. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    I'd say 4.0.

    10chars
     
  27. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Yes the very 1st video.
     
  28. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Amen!

    10chars
     
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Pure BS there...
    The average Junior is no better than 30 years ago.
    The TOP juniors are much better, yes I can agree.
    The worse juniors are the same as 30 years ago.
    That kid at 9 is a very good HITTING 4-4.5. As for match play, he's a winning 3.5 and a middlin 4.0 who is smart and understands the way to play a little kid who needs to cover a huge court.
    Dummies need not apply, unless you are a 4.5 dummy, hitting into the kid's sweetspot.
     
  30. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    I guess TT posters just don't want to admit they would get crushed by a little kid.
     
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    How many TT posters get to hit with little kids?
    FEW, I'd expect.
    I'm a self confessed "high 3.5- lowest 4.5" level player.
    I have played a top 30, NorCal Junior Girl's 16 now for 8 sets, never lost one IN SINGLES.
    In doubles, maybe out of 40 or so sets, have lost maybe 5 sets total to her and her better rated younger sis. I have had varied partners from female 3.5's to men's 4.0's.
    Kids are kids, and will get better with age and experience.
    For me, it's only gonig one way...dowhill, so I better enjoy the moment now.
     
  32. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    lol so not bullying and/or using gamesmanship on a 9 yo kid is being a dummy? ;-) And for the record: dropping and lobbing? Really?!!
     
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Einstein...
    You drop so you lob the kid, making him cover more court than you need to cover. Little kids are short, easy to lob over them. Hard to lob over JohnIsner.
    You don't drop shot to win THAT stroke, but to run them around, taking away their wind.
    Yes really.
     
  34. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    Top 30 in the STATE or COUNTRY? there's a huge difference.
     
  35. mightyrick

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    It's not even a Top-30 in state. It's a NorCal Top-30... which is basically a much smaller region.

    A Top-30 Girls 16 in California STATE would double-bagel LeeD in a 3-set match with him being lucky to get 5 points the entire match.

    4 of the 5 points would probably be her double-faulting.
     
  36. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    lol and you explain it to me! Ok let me explain myself more clearly: dropping and lobbing works against ordinary 9-10 yo kids and against my mom. That's as far as this tactic will get anyone (after 1976, that is).
     
  37. HackersRUs

    HackersRUs Rookie

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    Hmm, I would have agreed with you up until the match I saw last week.

    There is a nine year old player locally who is top 5 nationally, plays 12s tournaments with normal balls etc..

    anyway, one of the local club teams unexpectedly played him in a pennant (league) match as a fill in..

    (not meant to happen, against the rules it turns out, but at the time nobody knew what to do so they let him play the one match, which is in the format of 2 doubles and a singles in a three person team)

    The standard is around the 4.0 level.

    Now, the interesting thing is not that the lad lost, which wasn't unexpected, but that he lost so badly to some fairly mediocre middle aged opposition.

    This was particularly evident in the singles where his 55+ year old opponent just calmly ran him around with lobs and angles and slices for a 6 - 0 result..

    throughout all three matches, the kid looked fantastic and smashed groundstrokes like there was no tomorrow. Trouble was, despite a few spectacular winners, the wiley club players just kept knocking them back and making him cover the court until he eventually either messed up or just failed to get to the ball..

    I watched the match with the young man's coach who admitted he was expecting a different outcome but was actually pleased because it gave him a real insight into where the young lad was at with his game..
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  38. TCF

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    There are other kids his age do have the ability to handle them though. There is a Russian girl down here who turns 10 in January. She feasts on the wiley old timers, takes balls out of the air, has a killer slice and drop shot, etc.
     
  39. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Yea my club has several nationally ranked juniors who I hit with regularly. I am not a wiley old timer but I do have a junk game that I sometimes use when nothing else seems to be working. My junk game does not phase most of the better juniors.
     
  40. Avles

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    this kid is currently on court in the junior AO
     
  41. Bendex

    Bendex Professional

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    A 10 year old I used to coach could beat some pretty good adults. I had him playing pretty much any good adult I could find, and many an experienced old club player was surprised to be beaten by someone so tiny.

    These kids are playing pressure packed tournaments almost every week, so are probably better in the heat of battle than most 4.0 adults.
     
  42. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Its amazing that people here believe that a 3.5 could beat that kid. You guys are seriously underestimating how good these juniors really are, how determined and athletic.
     
  43. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    if you look at the original video from 2010, the kid was 9 years old.
    he played with what looks like an adult size racquet, normal balls and
    using the whole court against Jim Courier.
    so much for limiting under 10´s to smaller racquets, orange courts and balls
    what is good for average talented kids can be detrimental for the development
    of future elite players
    our national federation for example disagrees.
     
  44. GuyClinch

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    Kid could do well in a 4.0 league IMHO. Lacks strength but his technique is phenomenal. I think around 4.0 some of the guys would be able to punish him for lack of strength - but not until then.

    3.5 is crazy talk..
     

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