What NTRP is this?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Maximagq, Mar 24, 2014.

  1. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    It’s true. I can only speak about what I have seen with my own eyes, when we lived in Dallas, Southern California, Stockholm Sweden, and now in Seattle. My son is/was a good, but not amazing player. At 14 he could beat any 4.5 in a 60 mile area. I talked some of the top 4.5’s around here into playing with him (he’s 17 now) and they cannot win games.

    When was the last time you actually witnessed a top 16 year old playing a 4.5?
     
    #51
  2. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Just looked up your son on Tennis Recruiting. He's a great player. Any college offers? Did he know Luat Le?
     
    #52
  3. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    As a 4.0 last year, I played a 5 star kid who was older than 16 and got 7 games. I was completely over-matched though and I am not sure how I got that many games. Even more surprising it should have gone to 5-5 in the second set but I gave him a call. I was admittedly a pretty strong 4.0 though.

    I also lost a relatively close match to a 15 year old kid though but there were some extenuation circumstances. I completely underestimated him and played a tough match the night before and he blatantly hooked me the whole match. Worse yet it was in front of his mom. While I don't think I would lose to him again, the experience made me sure that there were a lot of 15 year olds which could beat me badly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
    #53
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I tend to agree with Asimple on this subject.
     
    #54
  5. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    This is an interesting quote from the thread in Tennis Tips/Instruction where you guys were trying to decide if a 4.0 could beat a top 14 girl.

     
    #55
  6. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    #56
  7. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    A 5 star 17 year old is playing tennis next year at one of the better D1 programs. Do we really believe that is equivalent to 4.0 USTA?
     
    #57
  8. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    A 5 star at any age above 12 would destroy any LEGIT 4.0
     
    #58
  9. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    I hit with a 12 year old 3 star kid recently and I would put my money on him against the vast majority of 4.0 players. I'd say all but he had some issues with shot selection and he obviously had limited power. He had some very nice control though and moved me around a lot more than I wanted to move.
     
    #59
  10. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    Obviously not.

    The kid was 2 levels above me, and I am a borderline 5.0 player. I got lucky and he might have been being nice to an old man.
     
    #60
  11. RoachTennis

    RoachTennis New User

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    Actually a couple of our 5.0s crushed Isner while he was at Georgia.
     
    #61
  12. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Link me to their USTA records, I'm finding that hard to believe unless they previously played college. Plus, Isner made it to the finals of the NCAA Individuals and lost to Somdev so I don't think any 5.0 could have beaten Isner during his college career.
     
    #62
  13. RoachTennis

    RoachTennis New User

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    I watched it with my own eyes. The 5.0s here have weapons and unless you were sandbagging you have no weapons to hurt the 5.0s here.
     
    #63
  14. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    Those guys should join the tour. I am sure they would quickly be top 100
     
    #64
  15. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Matt has weapons, he just didn't really get to use them because he was playing Joseph Di Giulio. That's what happens when a 5.0 meets an opponent who plays Futures.

    If you think your 5.0 buds would be able to use their weapons against Di Giulio you're kidding yourself. He's in a different league.
     
    #65
  16. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    when he was a freshman or something ?
     
    #66
  17. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    You're an "old man" but you went from 4.0 to 5.0 in a year?? Tell us your secrets to success.
     
    #67
  18. RoachTennis

    RoachTennis New User

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    Yes when he was a freshman. The OP has a very average serve is why they would hurt him.
     
    #68
  19. justinmadison

    justinmadison Semi-Pro

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    Your buddies were either over 30 years old or they did not play D1 college tennis or on ranked D2 or D3 teams. They were not ranked in the top 150 nationally or even top 20 in their section.

    Before Isner turned 18 he was the #93 ranked junior player in the world and after that he went and played at a top D1 school.

    I find your statement difficult to believe.
     
    #69
  20. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Post their USTA records or I'm calling BS. I don't believe they can beat John Isner even during freshman year.
     
    #70
  21. Rob_C

    Rob_C Hall of Fame

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    The UCLA club team is that strong that you might not make the team?? What was your score against DiGulio???
     
    #71
  22. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    I lost 2-6, 2-6 against Di Giulio but there are at least 5 guys on the team that are better than me in singles and doubles.
     
    #72
  23. kingcheetah

    kingcheetah Professional

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    There's also the inconsistency in club tennis across the country... many large universities can have club teams that could beat smaller d1 schools... other club teams are basically friend groups, and the captains just let their friends join the team.
     
    #73
  24. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    My Club team has a few 3 stars and a guy who played ITFs.
     
    #74
  25. MarinaHighTennis

    MarinaHighTennis Professional

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    Dude my school (UCI) beat (UCLA) and I'm on the A team, and you're better than me... so you should make it.

    UCLA isnt playing nationals, its spring invitationals haha

    Hope to see you there Matt, they have a ping pong tournament at the hotel and ill beat you there hahaha
     
    #75
  26. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Matt, you know you're a very good player. Do you make these threads to laugh at the silly responses?
     
    #76
  27. kingcheetah

    kingcheetah Professional

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    My point exactly. Many of the club teams are pretty loaded up with talented players... there's just a few bad ones out there that make it a bit of a guessing game if you schedule a match with a club team you aren't familiar with.
     
    #77
  28. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

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    Recently a top recruited junior on his way to Cal Berkeley as a freshman next year demolished a strong 5.5 singles player in an open tournament at my indoor club 6-1;6-1. The 5.5 player is 40 and beats about every 5.0 in SF leagues easily. Last year the same 5.5 guy lost in a third set against a former Canadian Davis Cup player (age 40) in 40M4.5+ and both were bumped to 5.5 this year. Moral to the story? There is no substitute for youth...
     
    #78
  29. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    Work in some SQL - big data is going to be big. MySQL is open source - you can load it on your PC (or Mac) for educational pursuits.

    Nice game except - and it will probably snow here in So Cal since I'm agreeing with LeeD - but you really did beat up the net with your 1st serve (watched about 7:30) - you need what I call a 1A serve - somewhere between 1st and 2nd that you can get in about 70% - more spin than your 1st but not as much as your 2nd - because eventually you're going to play guys who will attack your 2nd.
     
    #79
  30. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I was wondering why everyone kept saying 'play 4.5 and open' - as if 5.0 events didn't exist. And there are plenty of players at that level in So Cal. - I can't believe he can't find a tourney that won't have a decent field.
     
    #80
  31. psYcon

    psYcon Semi-Pro

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    I would say 5.0.
     
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  32. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    I'm not going to spring invitationals. Didn't make the cut because I didn't show up to practice enough and there are 5 guys better than me
     
    #82
  33. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    Matt, given that we've hit, i'd say 5.0 is definitely a fair estimate. You're a great player. Great strokes and great wheels! I'd say Brian Su is definitely 5.5+. He was nice enough to hit briefly w/ me last week after he was done giving lessons and it was just insane how easy he made everything appear. Granted we were just rallying and he's nursing a pulled groin muscle, regardless of what kind of ball i hit him, he got it back in the same controlled fashion w/ moderate spin with the same depth right back to me close to my stroke zone so i only needed to take a step or 2 to be in the right position. Even injured, his recognition, anticipation and footwork are incredible. More impressive was his consistency. He never missed...not once. Not one ball went into the net. Not one ball even came close to sailing long. but then again, he used to play on the challenger circuit ~20 yrs ago. Since he was injured, i wasn't trying to make him run, but i did try to hit some hard shots w/ lots of top spin right at him to see if i could pressure or jam him. He sidestepped with ease and then with a nice easy swing, effortlessly bled the pace and returned a nice rally ball for me to hit again. I've never experienced anything like this before.

    To all the other TW posters, if you've got a chance to hit w/ Matt or someone at his level, don't pass it up. Hitting with Matt and Brian was incredibly fun and a great learning experience!
     
    #83
  34. mad dog1

    mad dog1 Hall of Fame

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    what??? i find that hard to believe because you're really, really good!
     
    #84
  35. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    UCLA has a few good players on our team. I personally feel I am the 4th best in singles because I can beat two of the people going on the team in singles, but there is more emphasis on doubles and I am probably a lot weaker than them at the net and attacking. Besides, I honestly didn't really want to miss school because my grades aren't that good right now haha.
     
    #85
  36. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Yes that is usually the case. It all started when LeeD claimed I was a strong 4.5, but I disagreed and wanted a public opinion.
     
    #86
  37. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    sure, solid 5.0 I would think

    really wish you would hit CC more, though, you are obsessed with driving it up the lines.

    nothing wrong with that, but it gets very predictable..

    your serve will come good, nothing much wrong with it technically..

    I better race to SOCAL right now cos I reckon I can still beat you and that will NOT be the case for much longer!! :)
     
    #87
  38. tennisfreak

    tennisfreak Semi-Pro

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    I personally think you should put in some serious training and try to make the team in the coming years.

    You only have one shot at youth and you don't want to regret it.

    You don't want to be like me at 35 regretting never trying out for my college D3 team and hacking away in the adult leagues.
     
    #88
  39. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    They probably have the most players at every level but that does not translate into who wins Nationals each year since the ratings for the most part do keep things competitive between sections.
     
    #89
  40. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    But in theory, these may be the hardest sections to get to Nationals from.

    Some quick stats by state though. California (yes, that means both NorCal and SoCal sections) has more players at every level than Florida does except at 2.5. And at 3.5 and above, it is 2-3 times as many players.

    But by just the sheer numbers, the Southern section dwarfs all of California, particularly at 2.5-4.0 where all the states that make up the Southern section have 2-10 times as many players at each level. This ratio drops under two at 4.5 and above, but just from a number of players you have to beat out to get there standpoint, Southern would seem to be much tougher than SoCal/NorCal/Florida.
     
    #90
  41. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    That's a valid point.
     
    #91
  42. goober

    goober Legend

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    I am not sure even if he trained a lot he could make the UCLA team. The team has 6.0-6.5 players. If he were at UCSD or UCD sure why not. Btw you can still live out your college dreams if that is a big thing to you. I know one 4.5 player turn 50 and decided to play junior college tennis and his team went to nationals. I also know several women in their 50s play d2 and d3 tennis.
     
    #92
  43. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Is that legal? I thought the NCAA had restricted that at some point?
     
    #93
  44. goober

    goober Legend

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    At the D1 levels there are timeframe restrictions. At the other levels I don't believe that is the case. All the people I know or heard about have done it within the last 2-3 years.
     
    #94
  45. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    My understanding is there is no age specific limitations for any division if not playing the sport competitively after HS graduation (more precisely 4 years after entering 9th grade.)
     
    #95
  46. tennisfreak

    tennisfreak Semi-Pro

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    I'm afraid that boat has sailed, but thanks for the suggestion. Work, family, and all that jazz.

    My goal now is to get to 5.0 before I turn 40. If I do that, then I feel confident that I could have made my D3 team if I had trained hard enough.

    I still think Matt Lin should give it a shot. The worst that can happen is he doesn't make the team and fails out of school. :)
     
    #96
  47. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    I have known people who have done the same thing in junior college around here, too. That's governed by NJCAA, not NCAA, so they don't necessarily have to follow NCAA rules.
     
    #97
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Lots of chest heaving and bravado, Matt....
    You are not 5.0 until you can make the finals of a 4.5 tourney.
    Don't matter how good you look when you're at your best playing against your friends, it's how you play against guys you don't know, and are not in it for giving you a hit, while they hold back.
    Gotta understand, lots of guys at your level play 4.5 level tourneys, and if you run into one, you might not make the finals.
    Same with Open tourneys, you don't know who you play until the draw is out, it can be a low 4.5, or it can be a 6.0.
     
    #98
  49. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    Then, and only then, a 5.0 you will be.
     
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  50. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    Okay Master Yoda. I will try to play a Men's Open tournament during the summer.
     

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