What ntrp rating is this guy with a huge serve?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by oneguy21, Jan 6, 2009.

  1. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    #1
  2. m27

    m27 Banned

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    not really a huge serve, it was quite easily returnable if the other guy hadn't just stood there.
     
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  3. m27

    m27 Banned

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    anyway, based on three videos (very limited info) I would say 4.0-4.5. his movement (recovery in particular) is not great but the serve and groundstrokes seem quite solid. keep in mind that these are clearly his best points. he seems to just stand there after hitting his shot; in these videos, it works out because the ball doesn't come back, but I have a feeling that for each one of these there are 10 points where he is out of position and has to scramble (or would, at least, against a better player).
     
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  4. SirBlend12

    SirBlend12 Semi-Pro

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    ^^^ Haha. It would be a bit different when you're on the receiving end. Video makes stuff seem a bit slower. Based on the actual time from contact to service line, I'm gonna guess 110 mph.

    On the other vids, his return looked effortless, as did his forehand. I dunno what to "rate" him, but I'll go ahead and say he's petty darn good.
     
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  5. m27

    m27 Banned

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    One of my regular hitting partners hits about 115mph with a LOT more action on the bounce (the ball noticeably slams into the ground and leaps off). Unless his placement is impeccable (which it often is), it's not hard to return (once you get used to it). Just have to step in, splitstep, and chip it back. If you stand behind the baseline with your feet planted like you're 75, you're not going to get many balls back.
     
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  6. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Can I be the first to rate him a 3.0? LOL!

    But seriously M27 - this guy is good. His movement isn't that good? Whatever. He smoked the serve and had massive control on his forehands - did you see his other two vids?

    I would rate minimum high 4.5+ and suspect higher.
     
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  7. vbranis

    vbranis Professional

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    The guy clearly has a ~110 mph serve, and (although little evidence) nice FH technique. I would say he's at least a 5.0, most likely a 5.5.

    On the other hand, he most likely chose the best 3 points of the match. I would need to see at least a full game to rate him accurately. Even a 4.5 player can have some terrific shots during the course of a match.
     
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  8. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    I would be very surprised if this guy was a 4.0 - he is almost certainly better than that. To me he gives no indication that he is at that level, even accounting for the possibly bias behind the videos.
     
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  9. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    Obviously since there is the possibility of him having cherry-picked the best points he played, if your going to give him a rating assume that he often does this regularly in a match.
     
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  10. Noaler

    Noaler Semi-Pro

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    Yup, I've played 4.0s, this guy seemed better.
     
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  11. EikelBeiter

    EikelBeiter Professional

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    I'm not very familiar with the NTRP rankings. I only have that nice scheme Moz gave me the other day. And i would say between 5.0 and 6.0. It's hard to tell because every movie is just one point. If he plays all his points like that he could be 6.0. If he is inconsistent he probably is a 5.0.
     
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  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Dude hit a normal first serve out wide, with some slice and top.
    Notice it bounced shoulder high past the stunned opponent.
    OK, solid 4.5 serve with potential for 6.0.
    He hit the ball, notice the bounce.
    OTOH, maybe he's 6'2" or taller, so the bounce SHOULD be higher.
    Let's see how his first flat serves bounces when he goes up the middle.
    Around 110 or so, it should bounce at least chest high against the backboard behind the court.
     
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  13. Okazaki Fragment

    Okazaki Fragment Semi-Pro

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    That's the scariest looking 4.5 I've ever seen. Then again, we have former top 200s playing 5.0 NTRP. This guy might actually be on a 4.5 league team!
     
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  14. GeorgeLucas

    GeorgeLucas Banned

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    Red guy: "He's just too solid!!"


    A response to a ridiculous forehand winner and possibly an allusion to the previous night.


    The guy is white is good - really good. Granted he was only putting away sitters he can still pound that forehand hard!! 5.0-5.5 range definitely, judging from, like, 3 clips.
     
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  15. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    it may be easily returnable by you, but thats an ace against 99% of guys on this forum :) , or at worst a service winner against 99% of guys here.

    couple of posters above have estimated the serve at 110 mph and this is out wide. I have seen a lot of pro's get aced by 105-110 mph serves out wide, especially like this one which was near the line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
    #15
  16. strahan918

    strahan918 Rookie

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    At least a 5.0. His serve action is so fluid, and he places it very well, although he may have just picked his best serves, but based on the video, I'm guessing he can do that pretty consistently since it didn't look like a fluke. And m27, about your friend that hits a nice kicker. I think the guy in the video was hitting a slice on his first..so I think it shouldn't be expected that his serve would drop down and kick up.
     
    #16
  17. SirBlend12

    SirBlend12 Semi-Pro

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    True, true. But you're used to it. I more so meant that there are plenty of people who would be put in a harrowing situation by that serve. And it wouldn't necessarily be a product of spin and such, but rather reaction time.
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I seriously doubt that wide serve is close to 90 mph.
    See how it bounces back on the court after it goes in the box?
    It takes a pretty high hop, arcs back down and second bounces on the court, not against the backdrop or the sides.
    Even my second serve out wide ad court does that, and I'm an old short guy who lost 30% of his physical abiltities already.
    And if I hit a normal topspin second serve ad court right at the corner of service line and sideline, it would 3/4 of the time hit the backdrop on ONE bounce.
    Very few top pros, including ArthurAshe, could hit wide serves faster than 100mph. They need spin, and that slows the ball down to almost second serve speeds.
    Would like to see that guy hit flat firsts up the middle.
    Would like to see that guy hit against someone of 5.0 levels.
    Nice to see he can put away shoulder high moonballs. So can Girls 18's.
    If I had to rate him on only those few vids, I'd say 5.5 or 6.
    Now remember, a top level 4.5 serve is close to a top level 6 serve, power, technique, spin, and speed. It's only on placement, wide, middle, or center, with consistent depth on all serves, that makes the difference.
    Yes, he would beat me 2 and 2 until I got tired.
     
    #18
  19. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    It looked like his serve bounced off the corner post, or close to it. I wouldn't be surprised if that serve was 100mph. I won't try to give a rating off of one serve. I've hit plenty of unreturnable serves myself, and I only recently was bumped to 4.5.
     
    #19
  20. ssjkyle31

    ssjkyle31 Semi-Pro

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    Former top 1000 player.6.0+ Maybe in the top 1000
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
    #20
  21. fluffy Beaver

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  22. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    Hah anyone want to be this guy has never been anywhere near a speed gun?

    It seems to me like his talk matches quite nicely with his cut-off shirt.
     
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  23. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Wow I would love to be able to serve like that. Judging off the serve alone I'm going to go ahead and say strong 4.5. Don't get me wrong, he may very well be higher but the forehand putways werent hard and I havent seen his backhand/volleys. Could definitely be higher though.

    And m27 never admits someone is good and seems to like to downplay peoples skills. In my thread (got deleted b/c of flaming, but it was 100+ posts) 99% of the people said I was a 3.5 based on my serve+groundies+footwork. He goes and says I'd get killed by 3.5s and im a 3.0. Out of like the the 50 people who told me 3.5,he goes and says 3.0. Just like with this serve, everyone thinks its good, he thinks its easy to return. Hes always the odd one out with these threads...oh and m27 says he serves 100mph slice serves lol, still waiting for that vid buddy

    Hes too good
     
    #23
  24. kobe3pointer

    kobe3pointer Semi-Pro

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    Saw his other videos... very good player...

    Id guess 5.5+
     
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  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    BallinBob....
    That's how I want your serve to look and go by the end of the season.
    Sure, he's just strolling around.
    But when he gets into his ready stance, he tightens up, limits his motion, and really tries to hit the ball with a repeatable, consistent motion.
    Would like to see his first serves.
    Agree those putaways are pretty easy.
    His partner, with a decent 4.0 service motion, is out there thinking about the facts of life and the reasons for ditching for practice.
    Prolly major college level, translating to 5.5.
     
    #25
  26. Ballinbob

    Ballinbob Hall of Fame

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    Hopefully my serve will be like that. And if I keep growing the way I am then I'll end up his height or more (6'3-6'4). The guy has a good,solid serve. Service motion is smooth, I like it. I guess he could be a 5.5, but I would really like to see the rest of his game. It makes sense that he's a 5.0+ though, because most players with that big of a serve and forehand usually don't have crappy backhands+volleys. Still its hard to tell for sure
     
    #26
  27. m27

    m27 Banned

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    #27
  28. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, back Sunday I got to hit some with #2 Harvard.
    OK, his Dad said he's not 6'6"tall, but closer to 6'4".
    Still, at 5'11", he looks tall to me.
    Motions actually kinda similar, a little stiff and mechanical...both of them. My guy could hit what everyone around say easy 135.
    Some Wilson at 70 lbs., luxillon gray for out here and winter, VS for summer back there.
    I'd say the Harvard guy moved better, is more interested even hitting with me, is taller, and can hit much harder when he wants.
    And KNOWING I'm just an old fart playground player, he asked his Dad to ask me to hit serves at him!
    Motivated to get good, he would hit with anyone who had unusual, or good strokes to improve his wealth of input to handle all situations.
    And being maybe 5.5 or 6.0 (just out of top 10 18's Nationally), he STILL hit with me as if I could play tennis, not like he hit with his Dad or other lousy players.
    Motivated to get better, no lazy, no lackdaisical, always seeking new skills and face new challenges.
     
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  29. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    Uh huh, a little over a month and you already jumped lvls. You would probably say the same thing even if that vid was even a day old.

    How bout a vid then (with your serves too)? It is apparent you are able to take videos of your game since you've already done so.

    With so much huge talk from you, you might as well back it up. :)
     
    #29
  30. m27

    m27 Banned

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    yes. and it's been a month and a half, which is appreciably longer when you play 3-5 hours a day and improve your movement and strokes as obsessively as I do. anyway, the proof is in the pudding: video.
    no
    done. will be making a video tonight (been wanting to do that anyway). probably won't be the best quality (camera position and ****ty camera to begin with), but I don't want that to be an excuse and you'll see my strokes just fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
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  31. Noveson

    Noveson Hall of Fame

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    How long have you been playing?
     
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  32. [K]aotic

    [K]aotic Semi-Pro

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    This guy is at least 5.0. Even when he's putting away sitters, it still shows his level. He is taking those balls on the rise and placing them at his will while the other person is still struggling to recover. This is definitely a player with a good game.
     
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  33. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    uhmmmm. whatever.

    This guy is flat-out smoking the ball, has good movement as evidenced by the fact that he is all over the groundies, and putting them away with authority. Oh, and that serve is definitely in the 110 range (easy).

    Forget how the ball velocity looks, as it always looks much slower in video. Just looking at the swing speed of his FH, and one could tell that ball is definitely moving and with lots of action.
     
    #33
  34. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

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    damn, his serve hits the fence, and his approach shot is great, easily above 5.0
     
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  35. goober

    goober Legend

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    Based on the limited vids I say high level player- 5.0 +.
     
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  36. TonLars

    TonLars Professional

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    Guy looks tough. I say 5.5 or possibly better. Serve and forehand are weapons. Looks fit and fast. He seems a little out of control in one video but he has so much firepower that he can live with making some errors at times.

    Edit: He played for University of Indiana and had low ATP rankings, so this would fit
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2009
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  37. fluffy Beaver

    fluffy Beaver Professional

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    What do you think of your judgment in rating now m27? Still think his serve is easy to return?

    Your ego is out of this world.:twisted:
     
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  38. [osu]ilovecows

    [osu]ilovecows Rookie

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    m27 thinks he can beat an ATP player rofl. i'd like to see his videos now hahahaha
     
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  39. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    Your opinion on other peoples games in no way affects either the actual quality of your own game or how other people perceive your game. Once you realise that you'll see there is no need to deliberately underplay the ability of others.
     
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  40. albino smurf

    albino smurf Professional

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    5.5-6.0? Pretty quick clip, I could probably find a couple of me playing perfect and it would be hard to say. It would also help if the other guy was doing anything out there. Easy to look good hitting against a stationary opponent.
     
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  41. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    It does not bounce twice on the court. It hits the fence after the service box. It looks pretty fast to me. I was at the US Open and watching 100mph serves up close and actually thought they looked kinda slow. I would bet a few 3.5 and 4.0 rec. players I've been against could hit a few 100mph serves.
     
    #41
  42. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

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    all i'll say is this is one of the more accomplished player 'video posts' i've seen around here, limited as it is. would be very surprised if he hadn't played in college, or some other highly competitive forum. clearly someone who has trained at a high level.
     
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  43. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Hey BallinBob -

    I wanted to comment on your game but that thread went into the crapper before I could get to it. I still watched your vids though.

    On that serve, which looks pretty good - do you know your left arm stays straight after the toss, and comes down while still straightened out? I think that is slowing your serve down because it is a counter balance, and your serve will only go as fast as that arm moves. I would like to see you tuck that left arm down by bending the elbow - watch Fed - he does it beautifully. When you get a decent serve, little things like that can help a lot.
     
    #43
  44. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

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    What huge serve?
     
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  45. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Dude, that may not be huge at the pro level, but that IS a huge serve at all other levels of the game. The camera can be deceiving sometimes, but just look where that ball bounced on the fence, and on a wide serve.
     
    #45
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I'm not knocking his wide swinging second serve.
    But after it goes in, it's arcing downwards past the opponent and barely gets to the back or side wall.
    MY second serve top/sliced out wide deep into the intersection goes like that, and I'm short and old. And about half go deeper to strike the side or back fence up around 2'. I am 4.0 level.
    The fastest wide serves where I play thunder into the intersection with an OVAL spinning ball making audible sound, and ALWAYS hit waist high against the back or sidewall. Not me, but one of 5 guys with real serves.
    And not one of them is currently ranked over 400. Was, of course, but not anymores.
     
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  47. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^Lee, I hate to break it to you but the serve in that video is moving VERY fast, and with tons of side spin. The serve is definitely going in the 110 range. Pros hit serves that fast (and even slower) when hitting out wide.

    If you have never seen your serve on video, I strongly recommend you tape yourself, and you will see that what you are saying is completely incorrect.
     
    #47
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sorry, don't have vid camera.
    Consider my serve. #2 for Harvard asks his Dad to ask me to serve to him.
    Dad from a couple of Girls 18's, both fresh from mid rounds in the recent Arizona JrNationals, ask me to hit serves to both the girls.
    2 former top 400's, both men and over 6'4, practiced against my serve. Both under 26, so not too far removed from playing OK.
    Now forget the above and focus on this....
    I'm short, I'm old.
    My first serve, when placed IN, up the middle, bounce waist to chest high against the backwall. I did it yesterday repeatedly, just to check, during a doubles set. The back wall is net over fencing, but the richoceting ball stops play for at least 5 seconds, as it bounces crazily around in wierd angles.
    Everyone I serve second serves to complain my ball is hit OVAL, with an audible sound. I say too bad, I'm old, short, and have broken my left collarbone twice.
     
    #48
  49. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^everyone in the world has a video camera these days. Take it with your cell phone, or ask one of your harvard play mates to take it for you.

    Regardless, the server in this video **IS** hitting the **** out of the ball, and with tons of spin. (including the FH)

    I've taken hundreds of videos from bottom dwellers, to ATP pros. I know how much video distorts what is really happening. This guy is bombing it. Period.
     
    #49
  50. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Not saying he's not bombing it, but very few serves can go wide top-sliced and make the ball go much over 100.
    My cell doesn't have a camera.
    Consider..... Let's say that guy hits 130 flats up the middle. So when he takes out the flat, adds slice and top, the speed can't go near 100.
    And I'll bet his second serve, when it needs to go in, doesn't top 85-90.
    Sampras had the fastest second serves, in what, maybe 110 or so? Sampras is a better player. Yes, I know he hit some 120, but that was showing off and no pressure from 40-15.
    Most top players with big serves hit over 125 on firsts and keep the second right around 90.
    This guy is good, he's not a top player.
     
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