What to do with mains that end at the head?

Discussion in 'Stringing Techniques / Stringing Machines' started by maxspin, Oct 31, 2012.

  1. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    I am a new stringer having learned all I know from watching yulitle and Irvin on youtube. Having completed quite a few successful jobs on my babolats I have come across a frustrating problem problem which I hope someone here could help me out with. All the racquets I have strung thus far, using only two piece, have had mains that ended at the bottom of the racquet. So i just tied them up down there, then started crosses at the top and all is well.

    But I recently have come across two cheap prince and head racquets that have mains that start and more importantly end at the head. I may just be stupid here but I have no idea what to do with this. If I try a two piece job the two main knots at the head end up blocking the tie off for the first cross at the head. Confusedly I thought perhaps some racquets cannot take a two piece job?

    So thought what the hell and I tried a one piece ATW pattern by yulitle, there I somehow ended up with the complete reverse of the vid having to string the crosses bottom to top, yes yes I know how bad that is. luckily it came out "fine" but still wrong because i read, after i strung, that ATW is only used for mains that end at the throat, correct? What do i do with these racquets, one and two piece? Both are 16x19, one has tie offs 8B and 6T the other 6B and 5T, both skip 7 and 9 if any of that matters.

    I notice that on all my other racquets, using two piece, tie offs occur with three knots in the bottom area of the racquet and one knot in the top. it seems completely even tie off holes like the ones I wrote prevent two piece. What am I doing wrong? Any help will be much appreciated for my perhaps dumb and elementary confusion.

    Thanks!
     
    #1
  2. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,576
    Location:
    Florida
    It might help if you get more specific about the racquets in question. Just saying they come from Prince and Head doesn't help much. The Klipper USA website has a lot of stringing patterns you can look at for free. Maybe there's a tie-off spot that you didn't see.
     
    #2
  3. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,481
    Weave your first two crosses before pulling and tying off the last two mains. Just take care route the last mains appropriately so that you maintain the correct over/under configuration.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
    #3
  4. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    thanks Chotobaka,

    so you're saying that there will be two knots in one tie off hole, is that ok? won't that be a little bulky?


    BTW I looked for the racquets on the Klippermate site but I think they are so cheap/old that they are not listed
     
    #4
  5. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Prince Air Optima

    Head T1 Tornado
     
    #5
  6. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,481
    What specific models are these? That will help greatly in getting confirmation of the stringing instructions, especially when it comes to tie-offs. I have strung lots of racquets with mains tying off at the head, but none with shared tie-off holes, so I apparently I misunderstood your real problem. In any event, weaving the first two crosses before pulling tension on the last mains is a handy technique to have in your back pocket.
     
    #6
  7. PBODY99

    PBODY99 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,210
    Why not just string them one piece ? No blocked hole no problems. Some of the SMU frames do not have the second set of tie off at the head as they expect them to be strung one piece.
     
    #7
  8. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,481
    Prince AirO Optima Oversize (110): Prince instructions are specific to one-piece only. Mains tie off at 8T; crosses ties off at 5H. 10' short side.

    Head Ti Tornedo: Is also specified as one-piece by Head. Mains tie off at 6H; crosses at 8T. 9' short side.

    Both skip 7T, 9T & 7H, 9H.

    EDIT: You could string two piece if you really want to, but you will have to enlarge grommets for tie offs. I don't see the point in doing so for these sticks, however.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
    #8
  9. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    thx again Chotobaka,

    I kind of already had that info but thanks for the confirm, I guess more my noob question is about stringing one piece jobs. Is stringing a one piece always called ATW or do I do this,

    I end up with mains up top, tie off short side, then just start stringing the long side crosses top down? tying off at the bottom, is that basically all a one piece job is, and an around the world job is when the mains end at the bottom and you bring them all the way up top to string crosses top to bottom. This all makes sense to me, just looking for confirmation and then I'll give it another try at stringing...

    When googling one piece string all I kept getting was ATW results but that seems like a special case job right not the standard, but I couldn't find a standard job vid? what's that called, just one piece job?
     
    #9
  10. Ramon

    Ramon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,576
    Location:
    Florida
    You basically have it right. When the mains end up on top, you don't do an ATW, you just string crosses from top to bottom. Look at the stickies on the top of this forum. You'll find plenty of good videos there on string patterns.
     
    #10
  11. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks, I'll take a stab at a proper one piece tomorrow!
     
    #11
  12. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    Exactly.
    Many of the cheap racquets are one piece only, regardless of where the mains tie off.

    Some are hardly worth restringing.
    The flexing/distortion on some of those frames is just scary.
    Makes one wonder how the 'factory' prestring people do it.
    Probably one of those super-special industrial machines.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
    #12
  13. Chotobaka

    Chotobaka Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    2,481
    It would have been nice if you included this information in your original post. :confused:
     
    #13
  14. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    Really. Did you look up the stringing patterns for the specific racquets?
    They are available at several different sites, including Prince and Head.
    We all know what happens when you assume.:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
    #14
  15. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I would prefer to string rackets with two pieces of string. Where the mains end makes no difference. If the mains end at the head look for two tie off holes on each side at the top. As has been stated earlier some of the blue light special racket don't have those multiple tie offs so you are pretty much forced to string it one piece.

    Here you have another issue do you want to tie off one outside main and use the long side to string the top cross. Probably the best idea with that kind of racket and by far the easiest.

    Some people don't like to string tying off only one outside main so they string the top one or two crosses with the short side. This provides for a more symmetrical stringing pattern as you only tie off the crosses at the head and throat. I doubt many people that play with those type rackets could tell the difference.
     
    #15
  16. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks Irvin, I'll give both of those patterns a try!
     
    #16
  17. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    A word to the wise. Don't open up a grommet if one is not available. You can see tie off grommet just by looking. They are larger in diameter. Some racket don't have those extra tie off holes for two piece stringing. There are instructions out there for how to open up a grommet but I would not do it.

    If you are going to use one piece with the short side to run in the top one or two cross do not run the long side outside main (grommet hole 10h) to grommet hole next to the outside main (grommet hole 9h or 11h.) I would run the short side outside main (grommet 10h) to the top cross (grommet 7h) then use the tail to run the second cross (grommet 9H) and hold with a starting clamp. This usually puts the grommet hole farther away but it is my preference. Then when you take the long side run in the fourth cross (grommet 12h) before running in the third. That way there is no short section of frame supporting a pull which probably won't but could damage the racket. This produces a hard weave so you may want to run in the fourth, third, and fifth cross before you pull tension. Run in all the remaining cross and tie off at the bottom then go back up and tie off the top. This method requires a starting clamp and usually fixed clamps. If you are just starting out and practicing on those rackets string standard one or two piece as it is much easier.
     
    #17
  18. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    Maxspin what type stringer do you have and what type clamps? Answers to those questions helps to determine the easiest method for stringing if you are just starting.
     
    #18
  19. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks Irvin for your explanation. I have a Gamma progression 2 with flying clamps and I have a starting clamp.

    Would you recommend that I do the one piece method where I just tie off short side main up top and then start stringing long side crosses top to bottom? I guess known as the standard one piece pattern?

    The job that you explained, would fixed clamps be essential? Also is that preferable to the standard job? You mentioned that it is more symmetrical but won't the standard job look similar, tie offs at head and throat? In what cases would I want to do this type of stringing, had I the correct equipment?

    It would be my preference to do two piece, simply because I know how but this kind of racquet has forced me to learn new stuff, which i guess is good, like some cheap racquets can only take one piece stringing and how to do that...

    BTW Irvin or anyone else who has the time, someone else mentioned I do this,

    Weave your first two crosses before pulling and tying off the last two mains. Just take care route the last mains appropriately so that you maintain the correct over/under configuration.

    That I guess would be for a two piece job and these racquets cannot take that for there is not enough holes. But I wonder for what situation would this technique be useful?
     
    #19
  20. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I would string it one piece and tie the short side outside main off.
     
    #20
  21. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    More importantly how do you string your Babolat rackets? I would string the top two crosses and hold the top cross with a starting clamp and pull tension on the second. Clamp the top two crosses with one clamp and use the other to string the remaining crosses down the racket. When you are done and tie off the bottom go back up and tension the top cross. Release the top flying clamp, the starting clamp, then clamp the top two crosses again and tie off.
     
    #21
  22. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Interesting. I was following the procedure in this vid by YUlitle,

    http://youtu.be/vIbR7OzJJ5k

    Your procedure differs from his in that you do not pull tension on the first cross, he does. Also you wait until you finish all the crosses before finishing off the top cross, he does that only about four crosses in and when the clamp is diagonal from the starting clamp. I never thought of your method but it seems good, perhaps better, or same difference? I'll definitely give it a try. what are your thoughts on the differences?

    I gotta go string now and try all this new stuff, thx, be back with results
     
    #22
  23. fortun8son

    fortun8son Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    The Desert
    There are several good techniques for doing two piece without a starting knot.
    Irvin's is a good one so is jim_e's.
    Don't dismiss Irvin just because he likes to yank our chains once in a while.
    He has taught us all a lot and his techniques are valid.
     
    #23
  24. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    YULitle's and Jim e's procedure are sound ones, nothing at all wrong with them. BUT, you said you had flying clamps, YULitle had fixed clamps. If you use flying clamps how do you clamp one string?

    I double pull the top two crosses at the same time and the top cross does not blend over to the second while the racket is being strung. YULitle double pulls the top cross. I choose to wait until I get to the bottom to take the starting clamp off because the string bed is tighter because I think you have less drawback but it probably does not matter. It's is just a break of rhythm.

    EDIT: Also I do pull tension on the first cross when I am ready to remove the starting clamp. YULitle's method puts more stress on the string where the starting clamp is. because I am not pulling full tension on the top cross I can put the string farther up in the starting clamp toward the tip and it does not slip putting less crushing pressure on that top string.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
    #24
  25. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Thanks Irvin for you help. Regarding your question that was another issue I was confused about. I have simply been using my flying clamp for holding one string and have not found any slippage when doing the crosses, though that could be debatable I'm sure, but not noticeable to me. In other situations I have used a short piece of dummy string just to try it out, though I find that that the flying clamps hold one string pretty well and am satisfied with that, bad technique? It seems to work well enough I see no slippage and I'm not about to get a new machine anytime soon...if no good what is solution?


    Another question, does it matter if the flying clamps are above or below the racquet?
    To be honest its a pain in the ass to have the flying clamps below so I sometimes just clamp them above the racquet and I have been happy with the end result, just makes my life easier, though I have not seen anyone else (in my very limited world view of youtube) doing that. opinions? Obviously fixed clamps are another story, but is there some benefit to fixed clamps being below or do people just do that to try and replicate fixed clamp design out of habit? Of course fixed clamps are on the bottom because its easier to design the machine that way but for flying clamps, I can't see it making that great a difference but I have not seen anyone on youtube doing that even though it seems easier...???
     
    #25
  26. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    but is there some benefit to FLYING clamps being below?
     
    #26
  27. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    I think only clamping one string with flying clamps is a bad method. You cant clamp the mains that way and when to clamp the crosses the mains are holding the crosses. sounds like you are really losing a lot of tension and i don't see how it is possible to get consistent results. As far as putting the clamps on top no big deal I don't think.
     
    #27
  28. maxspin

    maxspin New User

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    ok, but when doing the crosses only the first cross is held by itself with the flying clamp the rest are done holding two like normal, can there really be that much tension loss from just the top cross supposedly slipping?

    Also if that is so why couldn't one just use a dummy piece of string if it is a mechanical issue with the clamps needing something there?

    I'm just looking for solutions here, thx to anyone for any positive help!
     
    #28
  29. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2007
    Messages:
    12,043
    Location:
    Marietta, Ga
    If the flying clamp is held by the mains (for the top cross only) it could draw back by as much as 0.25". That is really a lot of tension. I would not do that as I think you may as well not even tension that string. I think that clamp will move when you tension the next string so what good did it do - wasted effort. Just start by tensioning the second string. Now you have to get the starting clamp off before you can tie off and you can't remove the flying or starting clamp until you string at least one more cross. What not just string all the crosses first? Some Babolat's tie off on the third cross and you don't want the clamp in the way tying your knot so you need to run in a fourth cross before you can get the starting clamp off.

    If you use a dummy piece of string or a start pin (Klippermate sells them) then you have to take the start pin out and take off the starting clamp. That is even more wasted effort. If you are talking about putting a dummy piece of string in the clamp so the string will not slip and you don't have to adjust your clamp for a single string your back to the string tension being lost.

    I am not talking about your string slipping in the clamp being the reason for not clamping the top cross only. I am saying that way you will have a lot of drawback and you loose all your tension.
     
    #29

Share This Page