What type of player does have/would have a match-up advantage against Nadal?

tennis_hack

Banned
So there is another thread running along here that claims that Djokovic does not have a match-up advantage against Nadal - they are merely equal. I agree with this. Djokovic is good at escaping Nadal's bread-and-butter forehand-to-backhand rally, but does not really have a bread-and-butter play against Nadal of his own. The match-up is either neutral or slightly in Nadal's favor.

So what type of shots would a player have to have to have a match up advantage against Nadal on the clay-like very slow hardourts that are standard on the tour today?

I'll suggest, if they're a right-handed player, they should be 6ft 1in-ish and heavy with muscle, yet extremely powerful and explosive. They should, have a very heavy topspin forehand - heavier than Federer's and Djokovic's for sure. I'm thinking something Andreev-like, enabling them to pound Nadal's backhand with height and spin in the same way Nadal tries to do to everyone else.

Off the backhand they would want to hit with brutal height and spin as well. Nadal has a straight-arm forehand, which, I believe, is somewhat more vulnerable than bent-arm forehands at handling high balls. Also, he depends on whipping up on the back of the ball to create topspin with his forehand, and if he's forced to hit a ball that is already higher than his head - there's not much reach left with which to whip up on the back of that ball, so Nadal's forehand will give you a flatter reply. Either a Gasquet-like extreme grip 1hbh, or a very heavy topspin 2hbh (suggestions?) would do.

This player would create violent spin from both wings, and therefore would not run around the backhand, giving Nadal no open court, no angles, and no room to hit down the line forehands. Movement needs to be Djokovic/Murray-like, and fitness needs to be up there. Demeanor needs to be psychopathic and intimidating. Priorities need to be creating a winning h2h with Nadal at all costs, regardless of how many Slams they've won.
 

President

Legend
So there is another thread running along here that claims that Djokovic does not have a match-up advantage against Nadal - they are merely equal. I agree with this. Djokovic is good at escaping Nadal's bread-and-butter forehand-to-backhand rally, but does not really have a bread-and-butter play against Nadal of his own. The match-up is either neutral or slightly in Nadal's favor.

So what type of shots would a player have to have to have a match up advantage against Nadal on the clay-like very slow hardourts that are standard on the tour today?

I'll suggest, if they're a right-handed player, they should be 6ft 1in-ish and heavy with muscle, yet extremely powerful and explosive. They should, have a very heavy topspin forehand - heavier than Federer's and Djokovic's for sure. I'm thinking something Andreev-like, enabling them to pound Nadal's backhand with height and spin in the same way Nadal tries to do to everyone else.

Off the backhand they would want to hit with brutal height and spin as well. Nadal has a straight-arm forehand, which, I believe, is somewhat more vulnerable than bent-arm forehands at handling high balls. Also, he depends on whipping up on the back of the ball to create topspin with his forehand, and if he's forced to hit a ball that is already higher than his head - there's not much reach left with which to whip up on the back of that ball, so Nadal's forehand will give you a flatter reply. Either a Gasquet-like extreme grip 1hbh, or a very heavy topspin 2hbh (suggestions?) would do.

This player would create violent spin from both wings, and therefore would not run around the backhand, giving Nadal no open court, no angles, and no room to hit down the line forehands. Movement needs to be Djokovic/Murray-like, and fitness needs to be up there. Demeanor needs to be psychopathic and intimidating. Priorities need to be creating a winning h2h with Nadal at all costs, regardless of how many Slams they've won.

The player you are describing is....Tommy Robredo.
 
to many of the folks here, there is only 1 ideal player. right handed, supposedly an "all courter", 1HBH, and wears a head band.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Tall, big serving, big hitters. He struggles against them basically always, just look at his matches against even lower ranked guys.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
The player you are describing is....Tommy Robredo.

Robredo's forehand has nowhere near the same spin as Andreev, his movement is shoddy compared to Djokovic/Murray, and his backhand is not heavy either. To cap all of it off, he is Spanish, therefore loses against Nadal by default.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
None could ever exist. You see it is simple; nothing is ever fair when Nadal wins. As a result, all and every excuse must be made in order degrade each and every accomplishment he has ever made.

There are certain fans that are not Novak's that are seething right now. They are afraid that Nadal just might make yet another comeback and make their overrated hero look like a buffoon yet once again and further earase any claim that player may ever had to being "GOAT".
 

benxuan

New User
Verdasco with Nadal's Mental Intelligence. Nobody likes to play someone similar. It's like trying to break down yourself.
 
T

TheMagicianOfPrecision

Guest
So there is another thread running along here that claims that Djokovic does not have a match-up advantage against Nadal - they are merely equal. I agree with this. Djokovic is good at escaping Nadal's bread-and-butter forehand-to-backhand rally, but does not really have a bread-and-butter play against Nadal of his own. The match-up is either neutral or slightly in Nadal's favor.

So what type of shots would a player have to have to have a match up advantage against Nadal on the clay-like very slow hardourts that are standard on the tour today?

I'll suggest, if they're a right-handed player, they should be 6ft 1in-ish and heavy with muscle, yet extremely powerful and explosive. They should, have a very heavy topspin forehand - heavier than Federer's and Djokovic's for sure. I'm thinking something Andreev-like, enabling them to pound Nadal's backhand with height and spin in the same way Nadal tries to do to everyone else.

Off the backhand they would want to hit with brutal height and spin as well. Nadal has a straight-arm forehand, which, I believe, is somewhat more vulnerable than bent-arm forehands at handling high balls. Also, he depends on whipping up on the back of the ball to create topspin with his forehand, and if he's forced to hit a ball that is already higher than his head - there's not much reach left with which to whip up on the back of that ball, so Nadal's forehand will give you a flatter reply. Either a Gasquet-like extreme grip 1hbh, or a very heavy topspin 2hbh (suggestions?) would do.

This player would create violent spin from both wings, and therefore would not run around the backhand, giving Nadal no open court, no angles, and no room to hit down the line forehands. Movement needs to be Djokovic/Murray-like, and fitness needs to be up there. Demeanor needs to be psychopathic and intimidating. Priorities need to be creating a winning h2h with Nadal at all costs, regardless of how many Slams they've won.

This right here- probably the most important thing
 

President

Legend
Robredo's forehand has nowhere near the same spin as Andreev, his movement is shoddy compared to Djokovic/Murray, and his backhand is not heavy either. To cap all of it off, he is Spanish, therefore loses against Nadal by default.

Ok, so a better Tommy Robredo. Robredo DOES hit heavy topspin on both sides though and is a good mover.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
Tall, big serving, big hitters. He struggles against them basically always, just look at his matches against even lower ranked guys.

Nadal thrives on beating these type of players.

We'll see how badly he whoops a certain Canadian who exactly fits this mold tonight.
 
I will sound like a broken record here, but Joachim Johansson. Tall, fast, hits huge off both wings, competent volleyer, big serve. Beat Nadal while being ranked almost 700 in the world.
 

Mikael

Professional
AFAIK Nadal has never struggled against heavy spin, Andreev did beat Nadal on clay but that was like 10y ago and the H2H is heavily in favor of Nadal. Sure, you can always think of a Nadal+ player, doing everything like Nadal except better, but then it wouldn't be a match-up problem, the guy would just play better than Nadal and would likely destroy everyone else on the tour as well.

IMO the true match-up problem for Nadal is someone who doesn't give him rhythm, a big hitter basically with a massive serve (see Isner, Soderling, Rosol, tight matches against Karlovic...) Janowicz could be just the man but fell short this week - the match was a lot closer than the scoreline indicates. I'm pretty sure he'll end up beating Nadal a few times in the coming years.
 
Match-up advantage against Nadal? A baseline player that hits all the balls on the rise, e.g. Davydenko, Agassi. The penetration due to the huge topspin is nullified in this way.
 

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Nadal thrives on beating these type of players.

We'll see how badly he whoops a certain Canadian who exactly fits this mold tonight.
Yeah, but has to fight much harder against them than others. Look at his first two matches at Roland Garros this year, or at the US Open in 2010, or against Rosol, or Muller at Wimbledon in 2011 I think it was? Examples of when his opponents could maintain their level and get it right, Del Potro and Soderling in New York and Paris in 2009. The heaviest slam defeat of his life, and the only loss of his life on Chatrier.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
None could ever exist. You see it is simple; nothing is ever fair when Nadal wins. As a result, all and every excuse must be made in order degrade each and every accomplishment he has ever made.

There are certain fans that are not Novak's that are seething right now. They are afraid that Nadal just might make yet another comeback and make their overrated hero look like a buffoon yet once again and further earase any claim that player may ever had to being "GOAT".

oh for god's sake! Nobody's taking anything away from Nadal you crybaby!

Can you take your head out of Nadal's arse and post something constructive for a change.

I think DelPo's forehand, Djokovic's backhand, Fed's movement and anticipation, and someone who is taller and can hit down on his high bouncing forehands....and like someone mentioned before, someone that can take the ball on the rise and take time away from him.
 
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llodra_fan

Professional
I'd say Jerzy Janowicz. He's tall with a huge serve. Big ground strokes, can volley well, great movement for a tall guy and hits very flat. If he can get his temper in control and plan a couple strategies beforehand, he has all the weapons to beat Nadal. If and when he matures, he could beat Nadal more than others had.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
I'd say Jerzy Janowicz. He's tall with a huge serve. Big ground strokes, can volley well, great movement for a tall guy and hits very flat. If he can get his temper in control and plan a couple strategies beforehand, he has all the weapons to beat Nadal. If and when he matures, he could beat Nadal more than others had.

Agree...He's the only one of the youngsters with real potential.
 
M

monfed

Guest
Jerzy's FH is an issue, not enough RPM on it. Plus his DFs will cost him against the top players. So though he does have potential ,he also has some pressing issues that need to be addressed immediately.
 

Praetorian

Professional
Match-up advantage against Nadal? A baseline player that hits all the balls on the rise, e.g. Davydenko, Agassi. The penetration due to the huge topspin is nullified in this way.

Peak Blake gave Nadal fits too because not only did he take the ball on the rise, but also hit it back a heavy flat ball as well.
 

jackson vile

G.O.A.T.
Wow, Nadal's got you all kinds of angry today! You better start some more threads, get to work!

Maybe you can start some more Federer excuses thread, match up this that and the other thing.

How about slowing the courts helped federer, but then they got too slow and now it hurts him, but only when Nadal is there playing against him. LOL


oh for god's sake! Nobody's taking anything away from Nadal you crybaby!

Can you take your head out of Nadal's arse and post something constructive for a change.

I think DelPo's forehand, Djokovic's backhand, Fed's movement and anticipation, and someone who is taller and can hit down on his high bouncing forehands....and like someone mentioned before, someone that can take the ball on the rise and take time away from him.
 

tennis_hack

Banned
Wow, Nadal's got you all kinds of angry today! You better start some more threads, get to work!

Maybe you can start some more Federer excuses thread, match up this that and the other thing.

How about slowing the courts helped federer, but then they got too slow and now it hurts him, but only when Nadal is there playing against him. LOL

This thread's got nothing to do with Federer, go obsess/hate (I really don't care) over him somewhere else.
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
A player comfortable taking the ball on the rise and going DTL, fast around the court (to run down Nadal's angles) etc.

I'd say Davydenko and Blake fit the bill, Novak as well when he isn't being too conservative/passive off the ground.


None could ever exist. You see it is simple; nothing is ever fair when Nadal wins. As a result, all and every excuse must be made in order degrade each and every accomplishment he has ever made.

Yeah, you should be the one to talk regarding that.

There are certain fans that are not Novak's that are seething right now.

Just like there was a certain fan that isn't Novak's (even though he has his avatar) that was seething hard during Wimbledon last year, it burned, didn't it LOLville? It's in the nature of some people to run and hide I guess.

They are afraid that Nadal just might make yet another comeback and make their overrated hero look like a buffoon yet once again and further earase any claim that player may ever had to being "GOAT".

What was it you're saying about degrading accomplishments and making excuses? Fed's one of the tennis greats regardless of what Nadal does from now on till the end of his career, he's only a "buffon" in your pathetic little world.
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Don't forget Tomic, he is still just 20 years old, he's got 2-3 years left before he enters his prime.

Yeah but I haven't seen any weapons that can really hurt Nadal...Tomic is a good player but he needs to develop a reliable weapon...JJ has a lot of weapons (serve, forehand, droppers)
 

Omega_7000

Legend
Clay- Kuerten
Grass and Hardcourts- Sampras
Indoors- Probably everyone

Indoors- Probably everyone? Is that why he's reached semifinals & finals there? Obviously everyone cannot beat him.

Grass and Hardcourts- Sampras.........Not sure about this. If you're talking about today's grass/hardcourts with the new racket technology, no way Sampras will be able to beat him with just S&V.
 
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