What went wrong for Fed against Safin in AO 05?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by monfed, Apr 26, 2013.

  1. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    what went wrong?

    Just a bit unlucky in the tie break and that's it, Safin was better, so basically nothing went wrong, he just lost the match
     
    #51
  2. tipsa...don'tlikehim!

    tipsa...don'tlikehim! G.O.A.T.

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    best .gif i have seen in a while :lol:
     
    #52
  3. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Fixed.

    Simply played at a higher level? What producing more errors, less winners and worse first serve percentage stats? Only in your dream land with the fairies and the butterflies and little ballerina's who have a striking resemblence to Federer...

    Nadal allows his opponent to make less UE? What a load of crap. Again highlighting your little knowledge of the mechanics of a tennis match. Safin and Fed's UE's were quite high compared to the amount of winners they hit when you compare it to the W/UE ratio of Rafa and Fernando. That's not because Nadal allowed it you fool, Rafa and Fernando played at a higher level.

    Common sense:

    Rafa 52 W, 25 UE + 27
    Verdasco 95W, 76 UE + 19 ... 72 FE

    Safin 65W, 60 UE +5 ...70 FE
    Federer 72W, 59UE +13

    Oh wait, Rafa allowed this...

    But still manages to beat Federer to the point where he can't control himself from crying in front of the world...

    What was that famous quote? "Oh God it's killing me hmmmff"

    :lol:

    Seriously? You want to count Safin's 09 AO loss? Keep clutching them straws. When Safin played his game at a high level, Federer couldn't beat him.

    Just like when Nadal plays at a high level (it doesn't even have to be his best) he will still beat Federer at any major.
     
    #53
  4. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    lol, that would be the wimbledon 2008 final ... that wasn't even fed-rafa's best match, let alone being the so called greatest match of all time.

    in the world of reality .


    I was talking about the winner to UE ratio, not just the UEs, but you can't even read properly

    yes, rafa allowed this by being too passive in that match , though his defense was outright insane. Someone like a federer or safin or agassi or djokovic would've dictated more to verdasco and taken him out of his comfort zone.

    verdasco executed it very well and obviously didn't find it easy to get past rafa's defense. But he didn't have to worry as much about rafa blasting that many winners past him .

    rafa had to worry about verdasco's offense, but not that much about verdasco's defense.

    In case of federer-safin, they both had to go for their shots more, because they knew a little bit of drop here and the other would go for the winner/forcing the error , apart from defending really well . they were both brilliant offensively as well as defensively.

    besides that, I mentioned that for the tsonga and gonzo matches as well. Both played really well, had ridiculous stats, W/UE ratio being one of them , in major part because of rafa's passiveness.

    Lets see you bring up matches of federer where his opponent had those sort of stats on a slow HC .

    even haas wasn't aggressive vs gonzo, didn't go for it to make something happen, hence those sort of stats. When it came to the final, federer just dictated the play with his all-court game ( in particular with his FH and net play ) and didn't allow gonzo to dictate with his FH. (gonzo's level wasn't as high as in the previous 2 matches, but major part of the reason was federer ) , he wasn't that nervous at all ....

    very amusing how you bring up stats of 2 matches with 4 different players to try to "prove" your BS point.

    to put it in terms of arbitrary numbers if two players are playing at level 10, and two players at level 9.5, it wouldn't be surprising to see the stats of the 9.5 match being a bit better

    now OTOH, vs a common factor/opponent in federer, roddick had MUCH better stats than djokovic in USO 2007, yet you keep insisting that djokovic played better ? :lol:

    federer's gap in stats in those matches was also too much to be accounted for by djokovic's returning/defense being superior.

    but then you like being embarassed again and again, don't you ?

    not in his best 5 years at the AO ... overall fed at the AO >>> nadal at the AO

    4 titles, 1 final, 5 semis >>> 1 title , 1 final, 1 semi

    bwahahaha , so the 10 times federer beat him, safin didn't play at a high level in any of them ? total cluelessness. safin played at a very high level in TMC 2004 and federer beat him in straights.

    he played at a pretty good level in hamburg 2002, but federer streamrolled over him ..

    etc etc


    lol, federer beat nadal playing his very best tennis on grass in wim 07 final.


    if he'd met federer at the USO and the AO at his peak, he'd have lost there as well ....

    actually you confused the players here - if djokovic plays at a high level ( doesn't even have to be his best ) , he will still beat nadal at any major ( already proved it at AO, wimbledon and USO ) ...

    federer saved nadal in RG 2011 by taking out djokovic in the semi or else djokovic would've completed the rafail slam
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
    #54
  5. Apun94

    Apun94 Semi-Pro

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    Hahahaha, butthurt much?
     
    #55
  6. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Well I think 11-2 Federer is convincing enough. Sorry you think the Safin-Federer match is overrated, it must be hard to enjoy tennis with these kind of standards. But I guess you get a lot of pleasure out of your statistics.
     
    #56
  7. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Please mention what's Federer's record against top 4 players at the AO again.:)
     
    #57
  8. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    and rafa is relevant to the discussion because.....??

    And Safin was inconsistent at best. He played the match and tourney of his life at the 05 AO. The only performance of his career comparable was when he destroyed Sampras at the USO.

    We all know safin at his utmost best is freakishly good. The point is, he was rarely at that level best on a consistent basis.

    So yes, given Safin's mercurial variance in form, 2004 has fark-all to do with what happened in 2005.
     
    #58
  9. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    The_Order wants to get owned again, it seems. He claims that when Federer beat Murray in the 2010 AO final Murray was ranked 5th when in reality Murray was only seeded 5th but got back to the top 4 just when the AO started, therefore was ranked 4th when Federer beat him. He doesn't understand that but thinks that Murray was "ranked 5th for the tournament" which I find hilariously stupid.
     
    #59
  10. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    most trolls on this board find the greatest enemy in facts and logic.

    it tampers with their troll-centric view of reality.
     
    #60
  11. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    The_Order(aka sharpshooter) has hijacked this thread and turn it into a Hate Fed thread. That's is the one reason he join this board.
     
    #61
  12. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    This thread made me check out the extended highlights again this morning. It was a while since I saw this, and I must say that the level was just incredible! Certainly one of the greatest matches of all time imho. Both were in sensational God form. :)
     
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  13. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yeah, the level of tennis was just too good. It had to be seen to be believed !
     
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  14. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    no, that's incorrect. Don't you know as he stated, he joined the board because he's a messiah and is going to cleanse this board of the federer fandom. ( and going to own the evil fed fanboys )

    Oh and not to forget fed fans are supposed to be terribly afraid of him.

    :lol:
     
    #64
  15. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    yeah, I saw that ... really amusing ...
     
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  16. monfed

    monfed Guest

    The_Order's assessment of Verdasco 09 playing better than Safin 05 takes the cake for me.(though his intentional factual inaccuracy is far more telling and also embarassing. :lol: )
     
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  17. Dark Victory

    Dark Victory Rookie

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    On that Andre match: Jezus... that's Fed at his absolute best. And they were absolutely crushing the ball. Fed's serve looked different too back then. Slightly higher ball toss, more arch on his back and better knee bend. Looks like a Sampras serve tbh. Especially the body torque when he hits the ball.

    Fed hit a brainfart of a tweener against Safin at match point that cost him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
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  18. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    So why would it be pumped up more than the AO SF? Why would it be pumped up more than WIM07 and WIM09 which were both great matches?

    What you don't understand is, more EXPERTS and tennis fans agree that it was the best match of all time. Suck it up.

    Hahaha no.

    Why are you trying to deviate to other matches now? I'm talking about the match in which this THREAD is about and comparing it to another match at the same tournament 4 years later in terms of quality.

    Your analysis/explanation reeks of insecurity. So according to you, Rafa's defending was outright insane, yet somehow Verdasco's 95 winners against this amazing defence isn't as impressive as Safin's 65 winners against Federer's worse defence. LOL. They hit more winners, less UE's, similar FE, better first serve stats. No way Fed and Safin were playing at "level 10" and Rafa and Verdasco at "9.5". Some of the rallies and shot making in that 09 SF were seen to be believed stuff, it's just that your pansy boy wasn't unvolved in the match which is why it's not better. It's also why WIM08 is over rated compared to WIM07 because your pansy boy didn't win.

    LOL, give peak Nadal the draws Fed had and he'd win it another 4 times too.

    Oh he played well in those matches, just not as well and it wasn't bo5. If AO 05 SF was bo3 Fed would've won also...


    Yeah, except when Nadal played even better the next year, his arse got dethroned at his best major... something he was never able to do to Nadal :lol:

    No he wouldn't. 6-2 outdoor HC h2h, there's no evidence to back you up here pal, just because he made Roddick his lap dog and scraped past old Agassi doesn't mean he'd beat peak Nadal. In fact in the 05 USO final Fed played well below his best and he's lucky he didn't have to face peak Rafa.

    As for AO, LMAO peak Rafa would've ripped him apart in 06, wouldn't have needed to in 05 because Safin did the job, in 04 final Fed played worse than the 09 final. In 07 Fed may have beat Rafa but even that I wouldn't be making it a certainty since Rafa just troubles Fed so much more than anyone else.

    Oh really? at RG Djokovic has only ever taken one set off Rafa and that was only when the court was drenched and negated Nadal's topspin. There is no evidence whatsoever to back up the claim that Novak, not even playing his best would beat Nadal at RG.

    And Murray saved Federer in US08 by taking out Rafa in the semi or else Rafa would've completed the Failerer slam :oops:

    BTW good to see your buddies, the usual suspects a.k.a the Fed sweat lickers TMF, tennis_pro and Monfed jump on board and call me a troll, lmfao they think by jumping in their opinions actually matter. They're more delusional than you are...
     
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  19. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

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    The real problem was that in the last changeover Federer changed into the all white outfit, white traditionlally meaning I surrender. When he did that he was dooomed, and at the last point he tripped and fell in a most un-Federer like way. And Safin was on to the final which at last he won.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  20. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    :shock: AO used to play like that? Tennis used to be played like that? Man, that only was 8 years ago, but it seems so far back in the day... :lol: I mean, Federer could sustain a backhand rally and even return aggressively with it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  21. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    because of the history riding on the match and the drama in the march ? duh !

    no, there is a difference b/w greatest and best. many say it is the greatest. but best of all time, quality wise, nope ....

    and many experts and tennis fans agree that federer is the GOAT and know that he's far superior to rafa @ the AO, wimbledon, USO, YEC, weeks at #1, years at #1.

    Suck it up .


    why did you firstly deviate to the 2009 SF ?
    thread was only about 2005 AO SF ..........

    Only to troll away.

    I gave those examples to illustrate you don't have a clue

    lol, what insecurity ? I explained very clearly about the 2 semi matches and also used other matches to illustrate my points ..I didn't deviate at all. fed-safin was at a higher level.

    the 2009 SF was brilliant stuff . But the 2005 SF was even better

    what your brain doesn't realise is the no of winners+forced errors is usually more vs rafa than vs federer if the opponent is playing at a similar level. that's because federer dictates more reducing the chances for the opponents winner/forced error ... this effect is quite clearly more than rafa's defense being superior to fed's.

    the number of winners or winners+forced errors isn't just dictated by defense. duh !

    nadal gets pummelled by gonzalez, tsonga, ferrer, murray at the AO.

    4-5 record vs top 10 players ..

    yeah, he gets through nalbandian, davydenko, gonzo in excellent forms bwahaha ... he'd have one or two AO's at max, that's it ...

    take him 5 years back :

    2003 AO : loses to agassi
    2004 AO : doubtful that he could get past nalbandian in particular, a draw of hewitt, nalbandian, ferrero, safin would be much more brutal for him than for federer ; doesn't win this
    2005 AO : loses to safin
    2006 AO : injured vs ferrer ... doesn't win this either
    2007 AO : maybe can get past gonzo, but no lock here either.
    2008 AO : DNP

    so yeah ........


    what a load of BS.

    federer is 6-1 vs safin in BO5 , 4-1 in BO3

    here are some clues : davis cup is BO5, master finals earlier were BO5

    apart from that AO match in 05, federer is 18-0 in sets vs safin in BO5. overall 20-3 in sets.

    you can try trolling again and again and fail spectacularly and get owned. :lol:

    that's because you have near zero clue about tennis before rafa and even after that poor observation skills .....


    only federer played worse in 2008 wimbledon final ; federer had played better in the previous 5 years. ...nadal played at a very similar level in both the finals and his stats are as close as they can get, rate-wise.


    2004 federer was clearly superior to 2009 federer, including the final , no question ..only your cluelessness can say otherwise.

    05, 07 - rafa would get a set , maybe 2 at max if he played at the very best of abilities ...same goes for 2010 in the form he was in the semi and the final.

    the h2h on outdoor HC is an anamoly borne out of the circumstances of those meetings. federer is a FAR superior player on HC .

    9 slams to 2 slams on HC proves it. even matchup can only mitigate to an extent , that too mainly on slow HC ...

    they've only played one match on medium-fast HC ... given federer's vastly superior record on those surfaces and that rafa's style is less suited there than at the AO or other slow HC's , that's considerable evidence that federer would have the clear edge at the USO ....

    ha ha, 2011 RG, rafa was below par and djokovic's confidence was on all-time high.

    federer OTOH was playing very well @ the USO in 2008 , especially the later rounds. nadal wasn't that good at that USO. he'd have lost in 4 to federer just like djokovic did or just like he lost to murray


    lol, they all called you a troll because you are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    #71
  22. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    yeah, clearly only Nadal and Sampras are allowed to have ailments on the board.


    Anyway, from what I have gathered, Federer had plantar fasciitis that year. I don't know if he had it during that time specifically but yes, he did have blisters. All that said, painkillers and other treatments are available to most players and his stamina was not an issue then, so he played a fantastic match and lost fair and square. Now, most people don't know this, because Roger is not a poser composing traumatic, tragic poetry about his injuries in every interview. That's it, case closed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
    #72
  23. Chanwan

    Chanwan Legend

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    Could you please post those w/ue? I have a hard time finding them (they don't show winners on the atp site for old matches).
     
    #73
  24. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Safin is, by a substantial margin, the most talented player in the history of the game.

    Federer's a good player, sure--very accomplished--but you can't impugn a guy for losing to the GOAT.
     
    #74
  25. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

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    LOLOL! WIN!
     
    #75
  26. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    No prob mate.

    Safin AO05:

    W >> 65
    UE >> 60
    FE >> 70
    total points won >> 194

    Serve stats:

    59% 1st serve
    16 Aces
    1 DF
    74% 1st serve points won
    52% 2nd serve points won

    Tsonga AO08

    W >> 49
    UE >> 27
    FE >> 28
    total points won >> 89

    Serve stats:

    64% 1st serve
    17 Aces
    1 DF
    86% 1st serve points won
    56% 2nd serve points won

    Verdasco AO09

    W >> 95
    UE >> 76
    FE >> 72
    total points won >> 192

    Serve stats:

    69% 1st serve
    20 Aces
    4 DF
    71% 1st serve points won
    55% 2nd serve points won
     
    #76
  27. The_Order

    The_Order Legend

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    Drama in the "march"?

    LOL as if there wasn't history and drama in the other 2 WIM finals I mentioned.

    I have the AO05 SF saved on my Foxtel IQ2 box. I've watched it many times and yes, it is over rated. Great match no doubt, but not the greatest or best or whatever spin you want to put on it.


    LOL I compared it to another AUSTRALIAN OPEN SF which was of even higher quality. You brang up some old discussion from another thread because all you can do is back pedal. You're wrong with that USO comparison but I don't want to discuss it here.

    No it wasn't even better, in fact there is nothing to prove this at all. Your point of it just generally being a higher level is absolute rubbish.

    No, but defense plays a big part in it. It's obviously harder to blast winners past Rafa especially on a slightly slower surface than it is against Federer on RA. Too bad your brain doesn't realise that.

    It's also too bad that your brain also doesn't realise that Rafa's defense on plexicushion frustrates opponents leading them to generate more UE.

    so yeah?

    LOL Agassi beats him? Really that's it Agassi just beats him? LOL baby Rafa was able to beat Agassi in a HC Masters final and yet prime Nadal would've just lost to him. OK cool.

    Hewitt, Nalbandian, Ferrero and exhausted Safin beats prime Nadal Hahahahaha. Hewitt scraped past Nadal in 05 when he wasn't even seeded yet. Nalbandian would've been tough, but Rafa still would've beat him and Ferrero and Safin wouldn't have a hope in hell.

    2005 loses to Safin? Maybe, but Rafa would be a good chance to beat him, it's not as simple as just because Federer couldn't beat him, then Rafa couldn't.

    2006 he got injured against Ferrer, doesn't mean he'd get injured in 06. LOL what a load of crap. We are not judging on injuries here, we are judging the ability of the players tennis skills. Nadal would've sh*t it in at AO06.

    2007 He would've won as well.

    AO was Bo5 at Safin's best major. The point still stands, if AO05 was Bo3 Fed would've won.

    And as for not knowing tennis before Rafa, LOL you fail again. Rafa was around when Masters finals were bo5, in fact he and Federer were the main reason they switched it to bo3 after Rome 06.

    You make no valid point again. Fed and Safin played in ONE bo5 Masters final. And that was on clay as was their Davis Cup match. Halle, Houston, Dubai and Moscow are all Mickey Mouse events.

    Only you're completely wrong. Fed was playing more aggressive in 08 and it was paying off. He hit 18 more UE but at the same time blasted 24 more W compared to 07. You fail again. Nadal otoh was playing a lot cleaner off the ground, giving less UE away and serving better.

    No he wasn't.

    05, 07 - fed would get a set , maybe 2 at max if he played at the very best of abilities ...

    2009 Fed played his best at AO and still lost.

    I don't care if Fed has 9 HC slams to Rafa's 2. The outdoor HC h2h is 6-2 and should be 7-1.

    That isn't a fluke, Dubai 06 there is absolutely NO excuse whatsoever, but in your desperate attempt to make one up you say he choked LOL. So he just won the AO, Rafa's made a return from a career threatening foot injury and yet Fed was the one who choked?

    Fed was playing very well in WIM08 too. Yet he still got beat. Nadal would've raised his game to beat his b*tch once again.

    Novak otoh has failed every time against Nadal at RG and miserably. ONE single solitary set in all his encounters against Rafa and yet you can say for certain he'd win? LOL, Fed got his breakthrough clay win against Rafa in Hamburg 07, but remind me what happened in that RG07 final?

    You should be counting your lucky stars Murray came along to save your boy from the ultimate embarrassment because Rafa beating Fed in any major is more of a sure thing than Djokovic beating Rafa at RG.

    As if they aren't. And as if you're not either, you've been banned for your trolling ways, I haven't. I got banned for name calling.
     
    #77
  28. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

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    I do believe Safin of 2005 AO would straight set any type of Verdasco. I think the only guy capable of beating Safin that day was indeed Federer (it could have gone either way). Djokovic? Safin was able to straight set Djokovic at Wimbledon 2008 for crying out loud not to mention the guy has beaten Agassi and Sampras at AO not even at his best form.


    As for AO 2004, I think Safin was surprised as anyone to have made the final, he didn't get blown away although it was straight sets. I believe that could have gone either way if Safin didn't have that kind of draw. I certainly believe Safin would have won if he didn't get injured in 2003 (which set him back).
     
    #78
  29. MTF07

    MTF07 Semi-Pro

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    Agassi is one of the three best AO players ever, along with Djokovic and Federer and had he played there earlier in his career, he'd almost certainly be the best.

    He would steamroll Nadal there or on any hard court for that matter. This isn't debatable.
     
    #79
  30. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    That's just unreal.
     
    #80
  31. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Nothing went wrong.

    He played at a great level, against another player who also played at a great level, and Federer lost a very close match.

    Nothing strange there.
     
    #81
  32. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    That match was great for another reason...espn took alot of flack for no covering that match live and only showing the tape delay. I remember having to follow the match on some sort of internet radio or what have you, angry at espn for not having the live coverage.

    Ever since that AO, but primarily because of that epic safin/fed semi, espn has committed to covering *all* premier matches live.
     
    #82
  33. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    THe 05 Fed/Safin semifinal was so good that it became in instant classic. The match was shortly replay again on ESPN Classic.
     
    #83
  34. sonicare

    sonicare Hall of Fame

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    Nadal - davydenko Hard court H2H = 1 - 6

    So if federer was lucky to avoid nadal in all those hard court majors, Nadal is even luckier to avoid Davydenko in HC majors. There is no indication that Nadal could beat davydenko on a HC. Nadal last beat davydenko on a HC in 2006 LMAO

    Just saying.
     
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  35. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    the tweener
     
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  36. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Here is a list of USO champions that Safin beat at the AO, with Nole set to be a future champion. :)

    Federer
    Agassi
    Sampras
    Djokovic
    Roddick
    Hewitt
     
    #86
  37. BER256

    BER256 New User

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    Both players were playing the best tennis of their careers, and Safin won. I watch this match all the time, it was one of the first real tennis matches I watched as a kid. I believe its much better than the modern tennis that I watch now.
     
    #87
  38. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    It was also the 25 kg tension, go for broke Federer.
     
    #88
  39. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    Well it wasn't that big of a surprise as Safin played Fed very close at TMC a few months back.

    It would be incorrect to call Fed "fully fit" in that AO match though - he had pain in his feet that was a begining of a foot issue that would dog him throughout much of 2005, leading to pullouts from Rome and Montreal, though he said it never returned as bad as it was in that Safin match. The pain in his feet led him to physically overcompensate so by the end of the match he had nerve pain from his back going all the way through his arm. You can see at the MTO he took he was white a sheet.

    Safin's agent was sitting next to Peter Lundgren during the match and reported that Lundgren could see from how Fed was moving that he was in pain and was commenting about it during the match.

    Still the result may well have been the same regardless; Fed in 2005 was peak Fed and even at less than 100% physically was phenomenal. It took a great performance to beat him, which Safin produced.
     
    #89
  40. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    Safin for once did not fold and deservedly won the match.
     
    #90
  41. tata

    tata Professional

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    That tweener he hit on match point, he supposebly had time to hit a forehand running towards the back.
     
    #91
  42. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    I may be oversimplifying it, but I think he was caught off guard. Marat is one of only a few players who can beat Federer straight up. He showed up that day and his power and consistency was too much for Roger. If they played a second time with matching circumstances, Roger would be ready and make the needed adjustments.
     
    #92
  43. rajah84

    rajah84 Semi-Pro

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    Yes, we already know, Roger doesn't actually get beaten, he loses because he's injured.
     
    #93
  44. NEW_BORN

    NEW_BORN Professional

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    I think coming into this match, the hype around Fed's abilities kind of got into his head a bit, especially after he destroyed Agassi the round before. Through the first 4 sets it looked like Fed was just assured that he'll eventually win. It wasn't until the 5th set that he realised that he might in fact lose, but by then it was already an uphill battle to wrestle that winning momentum away from Safin.
     
    #94
  45. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    What went wrong?

    God-mode Safin.
     
    #95
  46. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    not as much as the wimbledon 2008 final, no .

    It was meant to be match, not march. was a typo. Big deal !

    oh yes, the best match of all time .


    it was you who brought it up first. The thread was specifically about AO 2005 SF. no one asked for a specific comparison with other matches

    reply to it anywhere else then. Fact is I put it that in multiple places and you didn't reply anywhere because you have no reply. You just got owned.


    its not rubbish. Its reality. Deal with it.

    No, its not harder to blast winners past rafa over the course of a match.

    From a given fixed position, yes, its harder to get through rafa's defense

    But over the course of a match, because federer dictates quite a bit more , he gives less chances to hit winners .

    for instance djokovic hit 48 winners in a total of 304 points vs federer ( 15.8%) in the US Open 2011 semi

    he hit 55 winners out of a total of 268 points vs nadal (20.%) in the Open 2011 final

    just one example. there are quite a few more out there. If you actually observe , you'd know.


    lol, wut ? agassi was at his best in AO 2003 ... nadal got ripped apart in AO 2008 by tsonga. agassi is a clearly superior player to rafa on HC . why on earth can't I assume that agassi would beat him there ?

    by mid-2005, agassi's back problems had increased and his mobility was reduced. He just had an inspired run in USO 2005, that's it. rafa's win over him in 2005 Canada masters doesn't have much of bearing in a hypothetical meeting with agassi of 2 and half years ago.

    yes, because nadal wouldn't be exhausted at all having to come through to the final beating hewitt, nalbandian & ferrero. LMAO .... that is if he came through it, especially nalbandian.

    safin and federer both played at a higher level in AO 2005 than than rafa ever did at the AO. AO 2010, rafa wasn't even at his best, though he was playing well. Of course, he would lose to safin ..

    we're judging on the basis of reality. rafa's style of play that has got him success is a major part of the reason for his injuries.

    so one can't just assume he'd be injury free in a hypothetical.

    oh and even if injury free, he'd have to play really real well to get past davydenko, who was playing very well and is 1-6 h2h on HC ...

    no lock against in-form gonzo


    so what ? you brought up AO 2004 . safin wouldn't have won there even if he came through an easier draw.

    again, what exactly is you point ? safin didn't get a set off 6 other meetings in BO5 vs federer ... and the one time he won he had to save a MP. yet he'd have won in AO 04 if he hadn't come through a tough draw ? LULZ ...... desperate, desperate .....

    majority of rafa's career - atleast since he started making master finals - master finals have been BO3 and since you're obssessed with him .....

    I am pretty well aware that they both skipped hamburg because of that marathon rome final and that the masters finals were changed to BO3 after that.

    funny how you notice federer was more aggressive in 08, but not that rafa was more aggressive in 07 ..

    the W/UE differential of a good player playing well increases on grass as the match goes on. That's a basic observation, something you don't realize .

    no, it would've been 4 all if federer was not sick in miami 2004 and not choked in dubai 2006, would be 5-3 to federer if he didn't serve badly in AO 2009 (if he served decent , it would've been enough )

    you don't care that federer has 9 slams to rafa's 2 slams on HC ? LOL, as if your credibility needed another hit :lol:

    the h2h on outdoor HC is mainly due to the circumstances.

    he couldn't even raise his game to beat murray, who hadn't made a single slam final then and whom he had thrashed at wimbledon ... bah !


    rafa played excellently in RG 2007 , not as much in RG 2011 , that's one major difference. djokovic had beaten nadal 4 times in a row ( including twice on clay ). federer had just beaten him once at hamburg after rafa beat him at hamburg. That's another major difference. The circumstances are not close or remotely comparable.

    given rafa's form in USO 2008, that murray won over him comfortably, federer would've beat him too ...


    lol, I got banned for namecalling, that's it, nice try though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    #96
  47. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    I hate how this thread makes it seem as if Safin didn't deserve to win the match and he only won because Federer let him win in one way or another.
     
    #97
  48. SLD76

    SLD76 Legend

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    Where are you ngetting that? OP aside, most conclude that safin was the better man that day
     
    #98
  49. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    No.

    But facts are facts and Fed had some fitness problems in that particular Safin match. A match Fed lost in 2005 where he was fully fit was the FO semi against Nadal.

    Btw, it's a bit of a myth that Fed was in such great form at the '05 AO prior to the Safin loss. His feet had already been giving him some trouble in matches prior and he beat up on Agassi so convincingly by serving out of his mind. You can see in his on-court interview after the Agassi match he mentions he basically won it with his serve as Agassi was outplaying him from the baseline.
     
    #99
  50. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Didn't Fed try a tweener on match point?

    And blow it.
     

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