what went wrong with pro Boxing?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by kiki, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Clay,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Spinks,Holmes,Tyson and Holyfield with good challengers such as Dokes,Weaver,Tate,Bugner,Copemans and Evangelista for the two¡¡ heavyweight titles.WBC and WBA

    Leonard,Hagler,Hearns,Monzon,Camacho,Duran for the welter and middle weights.

    Arum and King.Caesar´s Palace and Madison Square Garden.

    Money, fame, glory and unparaled excitiment topped by the class, technique and amazing talent of those great 1970´s and 1980´s champions.

    What went wrong? Why that Golden Era faded away?
     
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  2. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    Changes in surface and technology, mainly. Weak eras also contributed.
     
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  3. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    Too many poor promoters. Fights have been 1-sided, so there's really no contest unless some guy gets in a lucky punch. Plus, I think MMA is taking away a good portion of the audience. Heavyweights can be boring to watch these days. I saw a fight where only 8 punches were thrown in the 1st round, and none of them landed. The crowd was booing. You rarely see that in MMA.
     
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  4. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    Why don't we just universally declare anything from the 70s golden and be done with it. :roll:
     
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  5. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Not everything.There were many serious political problems in the Third World and horrific fascist regims in South America that did the most cruel things one can think of.well, I can´t think of by the way.

    But for fun, yes, we can call it Golden.
     
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  6. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    the era in which you grew up in is always the golden era
     
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  7. RUC

    RUC Rookie

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    DON KING is what went wrong.
     
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  8. Manus Domini

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    I'm pretty sure it was the golden age for corrupt political regimes. ;)
     
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  9. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    well, not in the western world but definitley so in the then vast Third World, which included India and China.
     
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  10. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    American boxers aren't dedicatd, they all want to be rappers and entreprenuers, they want easy fights not high risk fights. this does not make a fighter great, to be great you have to take risks and overcome dangerous opponents. this is the only way to become the best. Now boxers are protected by management and networks and manufactured into artifical champs. Mayweather personifies this. All his fights are set ups. Manny Pacquiao is the truth, and opposite, he became great by beating all the most dangerous challengers in their primes and he did it in sensational fashion. Mayweather knows he'd lose to Pacquiao and has ducked him for over FOUR years. The system lets Floyd duck Pacquiao because they need an American star to sell. Once he loses, they have no star to sell.

    Another problem is the USA amateur system is weak and it gets no media coverage. Young fighters need media attention for inspiration and popularity. You can't name one USA amateur boxer can you? In the 70s Leonard Davis Bobick Tate Spinks etc were household names.

    The sport is still great but there are no great Americans. Mayweather is a counterfeit protected "great." The best fighters today are Pacquiao, Klitschko, Gennady Golovkin, Andre Ward, Adonis Stevenson, Sergei Kovalev, Sergio Martinez, Guillermo Rigondeaux...
     
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  11. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Mike Tyson said his whole life was dedicated to be the best. It wasn't about the money fame women etc. He worked studied dedicated himself fully to be the best. Nowadays American boxers are the opposite, they want it easy and aren't pure dedicated fighters like Tyson.
     
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  12. Vcore89

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    It's mostly the heavyweights and guys between 147 to 160 pounds that rules the ring!
     
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  13. loci

    loci Rookie

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    ask marvin hagler...
     
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  14. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Boxing was huge even in the 1970's - 1990's, but after Mike Tyson, there has been a steady decline. See this article on the topic. Seeing what happened to Ali had an impact, as has just flat out bad promotion (promoters/corruption).

    http://stallonezone.com/wordpress/?p=163

     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2014
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  15. Vcore89

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    It spiraled down so low after Hagler in the middle(-ish)weights and after Tyson in the heavyweights. However, even hand picky Mayweather Jr. might be saving what's left to save in boxing, boxing is far from being obliterated though MMA certainly has it's fair share of fans.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
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  16. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    I agree with everything Gonzalito said. And Tyson was great until he let Don King get in his life. He was great with Rooney. King tried to "manage" his fights. Tyson let money and fame get in his way. He had pet tigers. What fighter needs something like that when he supposed to be spending his time in the gym. His house was so big he probably never saw many of the rooms.
     
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  17. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

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    i believe the promotion and distribution of the sport has completely changed. whereas the major organized sports are well-run corporate entities (nfl, nba, etc.) that negotiate to secure national broadcasting, etc. boxing is decentralized and controlled by a handful of promoters with conflicting agendas who have migrated the business to a ppv model. i think there is a lot of dubious activity that networks probably just don't want to deal with.

    if you follow the sport today there are plenty of great fighters, aside from a dismal heavyweight division, and plenty of great fights. while mma has become popular, i don't see that as the real problem, boxing distribution was already in shambles prior to the rise of mma, and the biggest fights still draw far larger crowds than mma events.
     
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  18. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Yes, poor management and lack of motivation and general increase in the wealth may have had a direct impact; that brings down TV and media exposure and sponsorship suffers from that.

    I think that most if not all of those latin and north american legends came from very poor families and had to find a way to have a decent life.Many of them were gang memebers or were surrounded by violence around them because of their social situation and general situation of their social class, so they had to learn to fight and boxing was their answer.All in all, those factors have led into a big decline of what used to be the most fascinating professional sport for a long while.
     
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  19. Gonzalito17

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    The beginning of Tyson's demise was Robin Givens. She was a pure golddigger who didn't love him. Mike loved her. When she humiliated him on national TV on Barbara Walters it was the first time we saw him look impotent and weak. His next fight he got rocked by Bruno. He was never the same. The divorce to Givens and that whole disaster of a marriage took something out of Tyson. Then King certainly was a bad influence. Mike has even admitted he lost some of his fire after Givens. Then the false **** conviction and jail sentence - he was a shell of himself after that too. Most of those fights post jail promoted by King were all set ups too. As a young kid Mike was completely dedicated to the sport and being the best. He was so great so young - won title at age 20 - that he burned out in a sense. His physical and mental prime should have been around age 30. To 20-22. Tyson was equipped and taught by Cus Damato to handle everything in the ring regarding boxing, but not all the other outside stuff like leeches, golddiggers, crooked exploitive managers and promoters, etc. Anyway it's good to see Mike has matured and turned his life around now and he's at peace, he really is.
     
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  20. Gonzalito17

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  21. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Other than Ward, the best boxers are from nearly every country but the US. Many title bouts are not televised in the US. Promoters protect their fighters. Maybe we are the problem. Seems to draw in other places.
     
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  22. Vcore89

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    No love for Mr. Undefeated (You Will Never Be Defeated!)? Picky alright, but still...Marciano's record is within touching distance and he is about to tie my man Calzaghe.
     
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  23. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    OMG, never thought about Money! Seems like he among others are semi-retired. Instead of opening a can of youknowwhat, its a can of money every year.
     
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  24. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Like him or not, truth is Mike Tyson was the last of the great historical champions.
     
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  25. Vcore89

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    If Iron Mike (hypothetically speaking) fought in Money's division, can he bulldoze Money by sheer brutality minus the cunning?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
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  26. Vcore89

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    Still has to win it, yeah? Pacman got caught with a lucky (he was unlucky) punch to the face that floored him, one can't say that about Money, yeah?
     
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  27. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Tyson was never a favourite of mine.Not in Clay,Frazier and Foreman´s league.But the last true classic heavyweight champion? yes, he was.Boxing died the day he and Holyfield said bye bye
     
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  28. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Holyfield, never a fan of his except I once tried part of his training to shadow box with a pair of 60 lbs dumbbells (part of his training; actually just a 1-2-3-4-5 ''personal'' combo)...being naive and curious.:neutral:
     
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  29. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Remember Holyfield as a cruiserweight, shredded.
     
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  30. Vcore89

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    No comment since I didn't really followed his cruiserweight days.
     
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  31. rainingaces

    rainingaces Legend

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    wladimir klitschko would KO Tyson, if Douglas could he could make light work of it. He has a weight, reach, chin advantage. It's not Wlavs fault the division isn't very strong right now. Your all pro American.
     
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  32. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    Mayweather, Golovkin, Stevenson, Pacquiao, Froch, Roy Jones, De la Hoya, the Klitschkos, etc. Nuff said? Granted, Hopkins and Ward are rather boring.
     
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  33. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    Vlad's height and weight advantage is one thing for Tyson to consider but I guess he is brutal enough to oppose bigger guys. However, my doubt is, how would he fare with guys like Money's (if in the heavyweights division) craftiness.
     
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  34. Solo

    Solo Banned

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    Everyone was sh1t scared of Tyson in his prime, no one wanted to fight him. Tyson was a brawler and he has the stamina to go all out, Evander did a good job of winning 2 titles against him, even at that time Tyson wasn't at his best. If Tyson didn't go to prison, he would have been the best, no doubt, he had the potential. That era was the attitude era. Nowadays, everything is soft and you don't get stuff like that anymore,
     
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  35. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    His prime was over after beating Spinks.
     
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  36. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    It'll be a long time before the next ''most feared fighter'' emerge, not for the foreseeable future anyway.
     
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  37. volleygirl

    volleygirl Semi-Pro

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    Spinks was his first title fight. He was past his prime after one title fight?
     
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  38. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    money wrecked boxing. The same is happening to tennis.

    Golden opportunity for UFC right now to step in and take over boxing.
     
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  39. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Spinks was the linear champ. The bout unified the titles. Yes, IMHO Tyson drank his prime away. Lost to Buster Douglas in Feb 1990. Was never the same.
     
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  40. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Just out of curiosity, how many of you have watched a lot of boxing fights in their entirety (not just the highlights)?

    Most people just remember Tyson's quick knockouts for example, but how many of you have watched some of his less spectacular fights (Tony Tucker for example)?

    I have a large collection of boxing DVD's (Tyson's entire career; Ali's entire career; Ray Leonard's entire career; many more). A fighter's career is MUCH MORE than just highlights of knockouts (or bad defeats).
     
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  41. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    LOL...most people here don't even watch tennis matches in their entirety. They watch a youtube clip and comment on the match.

    I used to watch the middleweight fights when i would catch them. good sport to analyze. We cancelled cable when our kids were born though so i dont see much anymore. i miss watching the rodeos as well. those were fun. nowadays i watch primarily old tennis matches that I either have or am in the process of adding to the library.
     
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  42. CDestroyer

    CDestroyer Professional

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    I think it was the jail time that killed his killer instinct and his quickness. When he got out of the pen he didn't have the drive and his mentality was screw it I can barely train and still kick everyones ***. Wrong.
     
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  43. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Understand but He screwed it up. Shoulda ate bean pies and carrot cakes like Ali.
     
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  44. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    "What went wrong with pro boxing" is that it is really, really boring and always has been. At least to a "modern" audience.

    The only reason people think they used to like it sometime in the past "when it was obviously better", is that they never watched it. They only watched the highlights of Tyson or Ali knocking someone out and maybe got drunk with their buddies for a few PPV fights. It would be sort of like saying you are an NFL fan if all you ever watched is the Super Bowl (at a Super Bowl party, meaning you don't actually watch it) and highlights of the TD's and big hits on sportscenter.

    But how many people have really watched a lot of Roy Jones Jr? Nobody of course, because watching a skilled boxer (not a knockout artist) is BORING. The only reason people watch Floyd Mayweather at all is because he knows how to create hype. Otherwise, he's just a boring as Roy Jones Jr. (which really isn't boring if you like boxing by the way).

    Laver is GOAT. I can say this because I have NEVER seen a Laver match (but a lot of people say it, so it must be true).
     
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  45. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    LOL...Roy Jones olympic loss to that asian guy in the olympics is one of the things that turned me on to boxing.

    Laver is the goat. I can say this because I have seen the matches....on youtube ..LOL.

    edberg is my GOAT though
     
    #45
  46. Steve Huff

    Steve Huff Legend

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    Talk about going to prison--How good do you think Mohammad Ali (Clay) would have been had he not gone to prison during his prime. His fights with Frazier and Foreman were after he got out of prison for not going to war.
     
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  47. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Didn't Tyson ruin it with his cannibalistic urges?
     
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  48. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Sure Ali was not at home?
     
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  49. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    As an aside, Ali could take a punch better than anyone in boxing history IMO. Everybody thinks he was a genius with his rope a dope strategy against Foreman, but if you watch the entire fight, the man got hit, hit hard, and hit often in that fight before he finally KO'd Foreman. I don't know too many other fighters that could have withstood that type of punishment.

    In the first Ali/Frasier fight, that left hook in the 15th that knocked Ali down would have probably knocked out a horse. Ali was up at the count of 2. Really amazing. He took another shot a little later in that round. And this was all in the 15th round after he was dead tired (and so was Frazier).

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLWY...1PfMS-CN1TPXVnuuSot16k33v5VvVGGEUQNCGjzCfb4aT
     
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  50. Vcore89

    Vcore89 Hall of Fame

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    The most important thing one learns in boxing is how to withstand and take abuses/absorb punches then starts real boxing. Like Iron Mike says, he is in the hurt business.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2014
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