What would be the Outcome of Stefan Kozlov vs Serena Williams

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by El Nino, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Agree, no young junior has the mental/physical ability to beat Serena, but once they mature, she has no chance.
     
    #51
  2. rptennis

    rptennis New User

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    Great point - forgot he is 14. At 14, he doesn't yet have the foot speed and have not developed complete court coverage skill to keep up with Serena's groundstrokes. Agree that at 18, he will be a different player.
     
    #52
  3. ga tennis

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  4. ga tennis

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  5. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    I've never seen the kid play, except for watching the limited few clips of him on youtube. However, from those clips, he appears to be small and it does not appear to me that he has a huge serve. Unless the video clips don't do his serve justice, I'm just curious why you think Serena wouldn't be able to attack his serve. I figured that was the one area that Serena might be able to attack him.
     
    #55
  6. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    So, you believe this is because they are black? Not because they were the best, and most successful, females in the world for 10+ years?

    Get a clue. The race card is old news. If Sharapova hadn't torn up her shoulder, she'd be drawing all the comparisons.
     
    #56
  7. ga tennis

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  8. jigglypuff

    jigglypuff Rookie

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    In that case, the WTA should fold now... I'm sure not watching adult women who can't beat a 14yr old boy play.
     
    #58
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  10. ga tennis

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  11. tacoben

    tacoben Semi-Pro

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    OK...had to jump to youtube to see clips of Kozlov. Honestly, I am not seeing what you guys are seeing in Kozlov (though I'm reading that he is mentally tough) to say that he can beat Serena right now. When I saw her up close and personal at Stanford, and this after "recovering" from her win in Wimbledon...there is nothing to compare Kozlov to Serana...right now...at his current age of 14-15. C'mon guys this is silly!! I also saw up close Bartoli hit with Sampras at the event. I would bet money that Bartoli could beat Kozlov too ;-).
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2012
    #61
  12. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Kozlov plays similar to Hingis.
     
    #62
  13. Soianka

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    I have a hard time believing a 14 year old could beat Serena or any of the top women.
     
    #63
  14. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    No...

    ...I beleive this because there are no other back dated examples of such a comparision or conversation. Observation and deduction. When I stop seeing these "old news" comparisions, I'll refrain from hijacking.
     
    #64
  15. ga tennis

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  16. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Because it was publicized that Serena lost to a ranked ATP #200 player in a practice match at the AO many years ago.

    There has been no other "reported" match between a WTA player vs. ATP player.
     
    #66
  17. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    11th grade Lebron would've totally dominated the WNBA. Shoot, he might've still been a serviceable starter for the Cavs at 17.

    I can't comment on Lebron in 9th. He didn't blow up til his sophomore year and that's when the talk started of him skipping his senior year of HS for the pros. It was laughable seeing him play HS ball as a senior.
     
    #67
  18. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Billie Jean King
     
    #68
  19. rgwarren

    rgwarren Banned

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    I am not sure about all top women but Serena wold beat Stefan for sure.
     
    #69
  20. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    see my comments, BJK is acknowledged...

    ...you forgot another 40 year old example, Margaret Court. Also, THIS is the purely gender related example. Riggs set out to just find a woman who would play him for his hustle.
     
    #70
  21. floridatennisdude

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    Aaaaand, what is this thread trying to do? Oh my lance, it's trying to find a top notch female to compare to a non-top notch male!!! And what's that? They don't want another over the hill male v. top female matchup...they want a young up an comer against that top female? Good heavens!!! How racist!!!

    See how silly that last word reads?
     
    #71
  22. rgwarren

    rgwarren Banned

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    Kozlov is best 14 yr old in the world. That's pretty top notch
     
    #72
  23. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Who said racist?

    ...my point remains about race driving the comparison. Pointing this out does not have to be racism, per se, but it does point out the narrow perspective when tennis people make the tired gender player, who wins conparison. Broaden the conversation, actually discuss Stosur, Masha other comparable women athletes and race is no longer part of the equation. The fact is that these conversations on posts in the broadened perspective do not occur unless called out by observers/commenters such as myself.

    We can move to other topics or continue to wear this one out Floridatennisdude. Your choice.
     
    #73
  24. Tennishacker

    Tennishacker Professional

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    Did you not read my post???

    It was made public when Serena lost to a low ranked male ATP player.
     
    #74
  25. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    So, it is irrelevant that the large majority of tennis enthusiasts see Serena as far superior to Stosur, Vika, Maria, Clijsters and the many other women at the pinnacle of the women's game?

    The whole point of a gender comparison is to compare the best female against a male. Plus, Serena is American along with most on this board. Race is actually a non-issue until someone like you drags it into the conversation. Then it just pisses everyone off, self included, because the tone feels like we are being called racists when in fact we are just acknowledging the supreme skill of an athlete.
     
    #75
  26. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    I've Seen That video with Michael Mmoh at IMG Tennis Academy and his serve, forehand and court coverage would kill Serena.
     
    #76
  27. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    I refuse to be told I called anyone racist...

    ...I can and did discuss race without implying racism.
     
    #77
  28. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    ...Also this discussion...

    ...did and always does assume that the only women athletic enough to broach the discussion of playing with men are the sisters or more specifically Serena. The previous posters make the salient point that Serena already lost to a top 200 so why tread over the same area? Lets hear the analysis on why Masha can't beat Kozlov or Mackie MacDonald. Why Stosur kicker is too much for top 14s or top 16s or not. I challenge and encourage all to broaden the discussion on such topics. Floridatennisdude lighten up. Not being politically correct means we can discuss race without being self concious. Join me in the 21st century.
     
    #78
  29. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I don't know how I happened to see this thread. I don't know who this Kozlov is, so I can't judge his play. However, the big difference between the men and women beyond the serve and topspin levels is movement. A high school level male player with excellent movement is going to be quicker around the court than any professional woman player. I'm not so sure that would hold for a 14-year old guy.

    The Williams sisters are always brought up in these discussions because they infamously claimed they could beat the #200 ranked man in the world. Serena is also interesting because she's about the only woman in the world with a serve that seems it might match that of a lot of guys on the men's tour.

    Serena can hit as hard as many of the men, but she is incredibly slow around the court as compared to almost any guy in the top 1000.
     
    #79
  30. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    Serena would be less popular if she was white and from a non western country (this is coming from a black guy) But its not her race that made her who she is, it's her raw power and athleticism. Although she does come across to me as 2 faced.
     
    #80
  31. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Power was my whole point on why she is worthy of comparison to male pros or world class junior boys. But, I think you are mistaken on her speed and court coverage. She's pretty darn quick for a woman of her build. It's the most underestimated aspect of her game. Easily on par with an average college male.

    The guessing game is "what level player would outplay her"? Top 200? Probably. Under 500? Probably not.
     
    #81
  32. SoCal10s

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    I'm having a laugh a minute reading all these posts... I'm taking notes and now I'm starting to know who's is knowledgable of tennis and who's comments to weed out when they talk about tennis..
     
    #82
  33. j-dog123

    j-dog123 New User

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    my friend who plays in PD in eastern crash christian mchale 6-1 6-0 and hes rank like top10 eastern 16s and kozo will crah him soo 0 and 0 so i dont see y kozo wouldnt be able to beat Serena
     
    #83
  34. tacoben

    tacoben Semi-Pro

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    Yes, I agree...don't worry about her court movement...she is very quick, don't let her size fool you. Just by her pure ball striking ability, the pace she generates, the way she can make off balance shots to an offensive shot...rather than a recovery shot for mere mortals like us, redirecting balls away of her opponent on a whim, she'll be dictating the points over Kozlov and he'll have run an equivalent of a marathon (where she may run only a 6K fun run) when she's through with him. We're talking about multiple grand slam winners here guys/gals.... over a 14 year old???:-?:confused:
     
    #84
  35. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I said a good court mover. There's a wide range of movement ability in the juniors and in college. For example, I was never a good player but I was a good mover. I haven't seen a woman professional who could move as well as I could in high school. When I get out to watch professional tennis, the movement difference between the men and women pros is obvious and the gap is very large.

    I doubt that a 14-year old guy could outplay possibly the best woman player of all time. However, by the time a lot of guys reach around 18, they are physically more capable than any woman player, and it becomes a matter of technique and strategy.
     
    #85
  36. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    The surface is the critical factor in this offense vs. defense matchup. I give Kozlov the edge on clay. On a fast court Serena has the advantage. Seen both play. Kozlov has never dealt with a serve like Serena's. There is no junior boy that serves as well, with pace, location, and a high percentage.
     
    #86
  37. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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  38. jgmellor

    jgmellor New User

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    Serena....
     
    #88
  39. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

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    ahaha Kozlov for sure. When Sania Mirza was at her high ranking a few years ago she paid some low level college guy to travel with her for about 3 weeks. The guy beat her easily, and he had nowhere near the game that kozlov has. His best ranking was 2 atp points.
     
    #89
  40. rgwarren

    rgwarren Banned

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    Who is Mirza? We are talking about Serena...
     
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  41. TCF

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  42. mikej

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    Well hello again junior forum.

    I have a fairly decent idea of the level that Serena stacks up against on the men's side, since I know a pair of college players that used to train against her and Venus 1 long weekend a year in FL for a handful of years. They were both top juniors, but not top college players (neither ranked top 25 in college at the time, one not ranked at all but a depth player on a top team).

    They beat Serena and Venus often, but not always, so pretty similar level.

    I think Kozlov is probably at a similar level compared to these guys when they were training with her a few years ago - so assuming a similar picture - he would win some, maybe the majority, but not all.

    Anyone can send me an e-mail at ithinkbradisfullofit @ gmail . com if you want the names of the players - I'll check the account later in the week and send some replies. I'd rather not have the names posted here since the players had a lot of respect for the Williams family and were grateful for the opportunity to train with her - publicly posting that they beat her most of the time would not be their wish.
     
    #92
  43. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Kozlov's current ITF ranking is 64, with 19 wins and 12 losses against his peers (14 YO boys).

    There is no way that he's in the same league as Serena in match play.

    I would still take Serena against the #1 14s.

    The top 16 YO is another story, but would still be a tough match.
     
    #93
  44. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    A good point of course - certainly the Williams sisters may have been working on things - and I'm sure they weren't bringing the same fighting spirit to the practice courts in FL that they bring to major WTA events.

    To the Williams sisters - just another couple practice partners rolling through town. To the guys - one of the highlights of their tennis careers.
     
    #94
  45. tacoben

    tacoben Semi-Pro

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    I agree....I was actually about say/post it.
     
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  46. j-dog123

    j-dog123 New User

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    do u know wht ur tlking bout he doesnt play against his peers itf is 18s and under and most of the guys are 17-18
     
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  47. ClarkC

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    Maybe that is because these boards are dominated by Americans, and Venus and Serena have been the top American women for a long time. When people wonder exactly what men/boys play at the level of the top women, they talk about Venus and Serena. Perhaps on a Belgian tennis board, they would wonder whether a 15 year old Belgian boy could compete with Clijsters and Henin, but I am not familiar with any Belgian tennis boards.

    Perhaps there is also the factor of the arrogant statements made by Serena, Venus, and their dad that led to the Karsten Braasch mini-matches. Who else ever in the recent history of the WTA ever got involved in something like that?
     
    #97
  48. andfor

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    More reality. I bet Taylor Townsend could get games off Serena in a match. Every time. And I garuntee Kozlov would beat Townsend every set 6-0 or 6-1 max. The notion Serena can beat him is laughable.
     
    #98
  49. neverstopplaying

    neverstopplaying Professional

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    Obviously, I didn't. I had always thought that its ranking system was similar to national rankings, ie. by age group. Now I see his accomplishments are more significant.

    My vote still goes to Serena.
     
    #99
  50. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Don't look at Kozlov as some 14 yr old. Played 1 or 2 for US Junior Davis Cup team (16 and under). Made it as far as any American at USO 2012 juniors (3d round).
     

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