What would happen if Randy Moss of patriots went against Deon Sanders one on one

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by Fedace, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    This year, there is a big hoopla over patriots since Undefeated season is a real possiblity. Patriot's good fortunes are largely due to great play of Randy Moss, possibly the best wide receiver the game has ever seen. but i have to wonder what would happen if he went one on one against the best defensive end in history of NFL, prime Time Deon Sanders for the whole game. If prime time was still playing, most likely he will just play Randy Moss one on one for the duration of the game, unless Deon gets torched for several touch downs early in the game. Can Deon keep Randy under 100 yards receiving ? Can Deon keep Randy Moss to 2 or less touchdowns ?:confused:
     
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  2. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    "Largely due"? How about Tom Brady...or has he actually been sitting the bench these last 11 games?

    Deon is not the best defensive BACK (not "end", nitwit) in history. He was a great deep coverage man, but not the best and certainly not the best DB-the guy was afraid to make a hit, ferchrissakes. Your judgement on this matter has obviously been warped by the "Neon Deon" hype of the 90's. Moss would probably score all over him.
     
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  3. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Phil, i use to respect you but now with this comment, i am changing my mind about you. Deon Sanders is the ONLY defensive back(ok my fault on def end part) in history of NFL that could literally shut down 1/2 of the field all by himself. OK, i mean 1/2 of the football field was covered by Deon by himself. He is the BEST cover cornerback in history of NFL. You can play tapes of any good NFL commentators like Sean Salsbury, John Madden, Mike Ditka and Terry Bradshaw. they all agree. and As far as that QB tom Brady, he is a good player but not the best in history. If you bother to watch any of the NFL games at all when Pats play, Often times Brady just throws up the ball in the area where he thinks will be randy Moss, and Randy just goes and gets it. Tom Brady is just overrated.
     
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  4. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Oh and if you stick in Rex Grossman of the Bears into Patriot's QB spot, they would still be undefeated.
     
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  5. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Well don't lose your respect for me yet, Fedace. Hear me out.

    I never said Brady was the best QB in history (as you're inflating Sanders as the best DB in history). But he is one of the best big game QB's...he has THREE Super Bowl rings to prove it...and all of those were won WITHOUT Moss. Who do you think is the common denominator from the Pats first SB win to now? Huh? Do you RELLY believe that Rex Grossman could do the same? So, whoever Brady's receivers are, he wins games. Granted, Moss is the best he's ever had, but without him, the Pats would still be the best team in the NFL, IMO. You don't seem to understand that a receiver, no matter how good, is made better by his QB.

    This statement of yours proves to me that you are ignorant about some of the finer points of the game:

    I got news for you: that's how ALL QB's and WR's operate in the pros, not just Moss. Other than a broken play or a secondary target, NFL QB's throw to SPOTS (i.e. the place where they expect the receiver to end up after running his pattern). They do not tell a WR to "go down and out" and then throw to him when he gets open...that's street ball, not the NFL. You need to play more "Madden" to learn about these things...:-?

    There is more to being the best than being just a deep cover man. Again, the guy was afraid to take or make a hit. That's a minus in my book. He didn't play all that many games, either. He was a GREAT deep cover man-I'm not denying that, but the "Best Ever"...no way. I'll take Mel Blount, Mike Haynes, Lem Barney and a few others over Deon...because they were COMPLETE defensive players. On running plays, they did not "run away".
     
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  6. tzinc

    tzinc Semi-Pro

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    Moss might have played Deion in his career I can't remember right now. If he did Moss probably torched him. Moss is the BEST period.
     
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  7. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Those guys you mentioned couldn't cover 1/2 of the football field like Deon could. and if Deon Sanders was afraid to make a hit, then that means Moss would run all over Deon, which i cannot believe. Since only way to stop Moss is to jam him at the line and get in his face. once he is past you, you can forget about it. Moss just tells brady to throw it as far as he can, and he will go get it.
     
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  8. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Another Wise man.
     
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  9. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    You obviously did not read my comments.

    Brady could play with Div. II college receivers and somehow find a way to win. Three rings, buddy. Three. How many rings does Moss have? Oh, wait...he played for the Vikings most of his career. Nevermind.
     
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  10. lethalfang

    lethalfang Professional

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    The greatest receiver in history is Jerry Rice, who holds almost every meaningful receiving record in the NFL.
    Randy Moss? Please!
     
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  11. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Ok, Jerry Rice has more records, i will admit that. However, Rice was never a physical phenomonen. Moss on the other hand, is one of the fastest, and longest reach with arm in NFL history. Look at some of the one handed impossible catches he makes, Rice could never do that.
     
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  12. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Rice not a physical phenomenon? The receiver who continued to break records after 20 years in the league? The WR who left everyone in the dust-the big, fast WR? You must be kidding.

    You should stick to playing Madden because you don't know squat about pro football. that is the third ignorant statement you made here, and along with the other two, some of the dumbest, illogical shiate I've read on this board. By the way, how many Super Bowl rings does Rice have?
     
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  13. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    You mean the guy who takes numerous plays off (seasons off when he was with the Raiders), won't block down field and is a cancer in the locker room?

    You realize the Patriots got him for nothing (5th round pick)? Wonder why? Great receiver when he's not pouting, lousy teammate.

    Oh and Jerry Rice kicked ass on Dancing with the Stars too (or so my wife said). Let's see Randy put down the bong long enough to accomplish that!
     
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  14. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    You have this worship syndrome with Jerry Rice, i think. Rice was never a speedy receiver, actually had mediocre speed for a great WR. But Rice had great hands and knowing how to run great routes and uncanny ability to outthink his defensive back that was on him. Rice had a great mind but not a great physical ability. and Moss is kind of opposite of Rice, i think. You claim to know something about Rice but you just proved to me that you do not.:(
     
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  15. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    I don't "worship" Rice-I'm just acknowledging the facts; his numbers speak for himself. You don't compile those numbers over the course of two decades by having "mediocre speed" or "not a great (sic) physical ability". Boy, you dig your hole deeper each time you post on this subject.

    Moss, as Norcal said, is a cancer in the locker room and has never been much of an asset to his teams. There are plenty of talented malcontents in professional sports. But now he has no choice, with Brady and Belichik, but to actually behave. He's very lucky to be where he is now.
     
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  16. 357sig

    357sig New User

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    Ronnie Lott would have made Randy cry like a little school boy lost in the supermarket.
     
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  17. tennis-n-sc

    tennis-n-sc Professional

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    You got that right. Sanders was a fast athlete whose abilities were often embellished to include closing down half the field, a great exaggeration. Many recievers loved to catch a ball and then run to Sanders, who abhored physical contact. Lott on the other hand, though not as naturally gifted as Sanders, actually tried to take heads off bodies. One the most vicious hitters the league has ever known, cheap shots and all. ;) Moss' career has been mostly wasted unitl finding Brady. He should thank his lucky stars.
     
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  18. Tchocky

    Tchocky Hall of Fame

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    Who know? Hypothetical questions about matchups between athletes of today and athletes of the past are such a waste of time.
     
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  19. norcal

    norcal Hall of Fame

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    Rice didn't have great 'timer' speed but he had great 'football' speed. How many times was he caught from behind? Not many. Subtle cuts here and there and the fastest DB in the world won't catch you.
     
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  20. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Phil, i am not denying the fact that Randy Can(currently not) be a cancer in the locker room. and he chose not to play when at Oakland. But randy is all about winning, he wants to win, he saw no chance to win at Oakland so he behaved badly, not that it is a excuse. At New england, he is at his best cause he is winning. Jerry Rice has a better mind, not as good physically or is he as talented as Moss. Moss has alot more pure physical talent than Rice ever had. Besides, Rice was always with a good team and a great QB, Montana and Young. Luxury that Moss did NOT have in his career. You are just dissing Moss cause he is a bad boy and you don't like him.
     
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  21. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    you have to be incredible to have any record in the NFL, let alone the records Rice was able to set. he did everything right, and was fundamentally sound. you don't need to be the fastest or tallest to be the best... that is like saying Ryan Leaf must be better than Doug Flutie because he was much taller and had a stronger arm. hmmm. not to mention i think Rice was a pretty class guy, and was probably a good teammate. i wish the same could be said about Moss. the guy plays when he wants, and usually runs routes only when he expects to get the ball. he is lucky he got hooked up w/
    Brady, or else his career would have probably ended in disaster. who would you say is the best Tight End to play in the NFL? by your standards, it would have to be Vernon Davis who is bigger, faster, stronger, and can jump higher than any other player from that position... right?
     
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  22. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I Agree with you on this. Rice had the best or better moves than Moss after he caught the ball. also Rice had more elusive ability to escape from the defensive back once he caught the ball. but put Moss and Rice in a sprint, Moss will blow Rice away.
     
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  23. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    o, and as far as Moss v Sanders in their prime, i would have to guess it would go to Moss. but what are the standards for judging that? i would guess Sanders would have great coverage and would do a better job than most could... but overall Moss would catch more than he would miss...
     
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  24. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    and since when did this turn into who is better Moss or Rice? I was trying to get at the question, Can Best Deon Sanders cover Randy Moss one on one ?
     
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  25. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    To me, if Deon can keep Moss under 100 yards and under 2 touchdowns for the entire game with no help, One on One, then that is what i would call doing a great job on the best receiver in NFL.
     
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  26. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    people put way to much emphasis on 40 speed, bench press, etc. who wins a sprint does not indicate who is the better football player, nor does who can bench more. doesn't matter if you can beat everyone down the field if you can't catch. it is more mental than that. another big knock on moss is that he won't go across the middle. he has a little more this season, so maybe he will beat that knock, but who knows.
     
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  27. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    when people starting saying Moss was the best receiver in the NFL...
     
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  28. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    he might be able to, but not right now with how the patriots offense is rolling. also depends on how the pass rush is going, if it is non-existent, i doubt Sanders could do much...
     
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  29. goober

    goober Legend

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    LOL- no defensive back can shut down or even cover 1/2 the field by himself. Anybody who says that has never played or even understands the game of football. Commentators who made some such similar comments were engaging in hyperbole and they were well aware of it.

    The NFL has changed a lot over the last 10 years. If Deion was playing today he would not nearly be as effective as he was when he was playing in his prime. I agree with Atlanta Falcons offensive coordinator Greg Knapp when he says

    Is Deion one of the best cover corner in NFL history? Sure but don't go out on a limb or anything, that is like boldy proclaiming that Federer is one of the best players of all time.
     
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  30. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    You are right again, what made Rice so great is his ability to make moves and get 10-20 more yards after he caught the ball. and that has nothing to do with pure sprinter speed. It is more instinct on knowing where the defensive guy is and making moves accordingly. Moss on the other hand is not as good at this, but he is so good just cause he can just flat out outjump or outrun his cover guy. and as far as Moss vs Prime time, these are both guys that doesn't like to hit or block people so this could be a matchup made in heaven.
     
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  31. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    ^ yeah, it would have been very fun to watch. both of those personalities going at it...
     
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  32. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    What are you talking about ? Federer is the BEST player in history of the Game, Period. and i don't even like federer. I am sure in 50 years or so, better player might come along since athletes are constantly getting better but til then Federer is the BEST in history of the game thus far.
     
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  33. hjminard

    hjminard Rookie

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    Randy Moss better than Jerry Rice? Utterly laughable. One great season doesn't overcome a career filled with me-first mentality and wasted potential.

    Deion Sanders the GOAT DB? Flashy and highly overrated. I could name at least 10 better all-around cornerbacks.

    You must be very young or have a very short attention span. I suppose you also think that L.T. is better than Jim Brown?
     
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  34. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Yes LT is better athlete than Jim Brown. but in a fist fight, i will take Jim Brown. I say once again, Jerry Rice was with 49ers for most of his career, great team and great QBs, on the other hand, Moss had mediocre teams like the Vikings, and Terrible team like Raiders. so if you compare them that way, it really does not wash.
     
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  35. goober

    goober Legend

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    I am glad your supposed Stanford education has helped with your reading comprehension. You may want to go back and review what is an analogy. Here if you needed it explained in simplified terms:

    Deion Sanders is universally considered one of the best cover corners. Federer is universally considered one of the best tennis players ever. Beating your chest and proclaiming how great Deion is not really a great insight or stated something that is not inherently obvious.
     
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  36. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Your statement did not sound at all like an analogy. There are many who does not consider Deon as the best cover corner in history, that is actually a very controversial subject
     
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  37. goober

    goober Legend

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    I didn't say best, I said one of the best. Still don't like reading I see.
    Deion is almost always on any list of top cornerbacks of all time. At any position in football there are very few, if any people are considered the best of all time where there is complete agreement among experts or fans.
     
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  38. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    That's my understanding too. Perennially on the short list.
     
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  39. 10sfreak

    10sfreak Semi-Pro

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    Deion Sanders was the best ever "pure cover" DB in the NFL. Randy Moss is one of the best receivers in history. Unfortunately for Sanders, a great QB/great receiver combo will beat a great DB most of the time. Back in the '90s, I remember the Aikman-to-Irvin combo would just eat Sanders up before he joined the Cowboys.
    Also, there's no way that Ronnie Lott could have covered Moss, Rice, or any other good NFL receiver one on one - he was a safety, not a cornerback. But he could HIT!! LOL!
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
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  40. goober

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    I agree Offenses are generally at an advantage and can scheme to take one person out of the picture. Also the rules greatly favor receivers nowadays with the no contact beyond 5 yards. I think Sanders could greatly limit Moss, but Deion would be pretty susceptible to fade routes and jump balls where 6"4" Moss would have a decided advantage. And you are right even though Deion was Known as a shut down corner he did not shut down Aikman/Irvin combo.
     
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  41. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    It's more like, given an average of 3 seconds, could a Deion Sanders lock down a Randy Moss? I think he would do a pretty good job. But it looks like Brady has 4+ seconds to throw on average, in which Moss becomes uncoverable. The Pats didn't have that against the Eagles, and that is as much a part of why Moss was kinda taken out of the game as their physical play on him.
     
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  42. tzinc

    tzinc Semi-Pro

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    Brady NEVER had numbers like these without Moss.

    Brady iirc NEVER won REGULAR SEASON MVP he will with Moss.

    Brady's Pats never threatened to set all time scoring records (and QB records) without Moss.

    Moss has made a huge difference to Brady and the Pats even they say so.

    The PATS never threatened to go undefeated before Moss.

    Moss was on a team that set the NFL record for points that the PATs are chasing that is NOT a coincidence.

    As Madden said Moss is the non-QB MVP of the NFL. You could argue he is the MVP.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
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  43. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    These are all good points.
     
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  44. lethalfang

    lethalfang Professional

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    Jerry Rice has world's most underrated speed for a WR. Has he ever been chased down from behind before his 2 knee surgeries?
    There's another thing Rice does best: tiptoeing the sideline for a grab. No one does that better than Jerry Rice.
     
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  45. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, but remember that Brady never had Stallworth and Wes Walker either. Their WR set is overall at a level higher than Brady's ever had in his career.

    These two comments are also both true:

    Brady also didn't have a running back of note until Corey Dillon came. You look at the HOF-level QBs of the last 20 years, and you could make the argument that only Elway had less to work with for most of his career.

    It's unbelievable how low Rice was drafted. Apparently, he scored REALLY low on his combine speed and that effected his position.
     
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  46. lethalfang

    lethalfang Professional

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    Yes, Jerry Rice was drafted, if I remember correctly, 16th overall in the 1st round. Bill Walsh got a lot of heat for "reaching for" Rice.
    Jerry Rice reported ran a 4.6 to 4.7 in the 40-yard dash, not to mention having played for a small D-1AA college.

    But remember 2 things:
    1) the combine 40-yard dash is clocked by a stopwatch operated by a human, and that's quite inaccurate due to the reaction time of the operator;
    2) players in the combines run with sprinters' gears, but when they play football they have to wear full gear. The question is, how does a player's sprinting speed translates into football?
     
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  47. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    But I think it does pretty well with WRs. I remember Mike Williams having a unusually slow timer speed, which got blown off at draft day. Turns out his speed has been an issue for him being a bust. Didn't Moss have a 4.12?
     
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  48. lethalfang

    lethalfang Professional

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    It is reported that Randy Moss was clocked 4.25 for a 40-yard dash. Deon Sanders had reportedly run a 4.23.

    It's difficult to compare stopwatch speeds taken at very different time and location, as sprinters will tell you.

    The way Deon Sanders covers the WRs is reminiscent of how Willie Mays runs the bases.
    It's been said that Willie Mays, when he runs from 1st to 3rd, would intentionally go slower than he can in order to bait the outfielder to throw to the 3rd baseman, so that if he makes a throwing error Mays will score.
    Deon Sanders sometimes intentionally leave the WR slightly open, in order to bait the QB to throw his direction, so that he can pick it off.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2007
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  49. bluegrasser

    bluegrasser Hall of Fame

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    To really appreciate Moss you have to see him live, & I did on several occasions & to answer your question - Moss would prevail in most cases, that is if he's free after the five yard contact point and it's just him & Deon.
     
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  50. Phil

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    Undefeated seasons, scoring records, MVP's...for pro football players, those are nice, but the gold standard is the Vince Lombardi Trophy (i.e. winning the Super Bowl) and Brady has three of 'em, without Moss. As Tricky wrote, Brady never had all that much to work worth, considering what he's achieved. Now that he has Moss, he will in all likelihood SURPRISE...win another Super Bowl. Moss just got lucky and finally got on a good team, so NOW he's actually motivated to go out and play for 4 quarters (instead of his normaly 2 or less).
     
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