What Would You Have Done?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by rasajadad, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. rasajadad

    rasajadad Hall of Fame

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    I'd like to throw out a situation that occurred this past Friday evening. I was playing doubles at a team "practice". I was at the net in the deuce court and my partner was at the baseline in the ad court. The opposing team lobbed over my head into the deuce corner. My partner and I switched, so I was in the front court in the ad side. My partner threw up a short lob right to their net man. I started to turn my back to the netman (who was on the ad side)to concede the point and WHAM! he slams it into my right eye. I was wearing glasses which shattered into at least six pieces. (The lenses didn't shatter, but the frames did.) It is important to note that the guy has a history of "head hunting" and that he is a big hooker. Also, I am a 4.5 so it's not like I'm a danger to myself at the net.

    (By the way, I am okay.)
     
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  2. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    yell at your partner for setting you up at the net like that and not warning you about the short lob. I seriously doubt your teammate was trying to hit you- you were just in the way of the crosscourt shot which is the right one to take. If he is looking up at the ball i don't really get why you think he would know that you were trying to concede the point.
     
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  3. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Glad to hear you are OK. My guess is this thread will degenerate into a litany of tire slashing, car keying and a55 kicking references.

    Basically as you have set up your question the guy is a known headhunting cheater. I guess you are making us therefore assume that he intentionally hit the ball into your right eye (or at least into your face).

    Given this setup: why do you play with this guy, why did you not wear a helmet, and why didn't you run screaming to the baseline once your partner (the real bad guy here) threw up his pathetic lob?
     
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  4. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    How is it he still hit you in the eye, if you turned your back. Something is not adding up here.
     
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  5. Moz

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    Why on earth were you turning your back on the net man?
     
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  6. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    I presume so you do don't get hit in the eyeball with a ball going 100 mph, and maybe breaking an orbit, or worse.

     
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  7. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    You get a far better chance of protecting yourself if you back up as quickly as possible while facing the netman.

    Plus you stand a chance of returning the ball.
     
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  8. Tarboro

    Tarboro Rookie

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    Most satisfying response: jump the net and assault him and/or drill him a new @$$h01e with the next overhead you see.

    2nd Most satisfying response: a verbal altercation calling into question his paternity, followed by passive-aggressively shunning him forever.

    Likely best response (IMHO): ask him where to send the bill for the glasses and tell him that it's unacceptable to behave like that, particularly in practice.

    Unfortunately, I think the best response is to be the bigger man in situations like this. If possible, never lose to him again so that your success gets into his head and he begins to question his masculinity in losing to someone he should thoroughly physically dominate.
     
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  9. spot

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    Judging by the question you just don't like your teammate and thats what the real problem is. "hooking" doesn't have anything to do with the question other than the fact that you don't like the guy. SO really the question is what to do when you have a guy on your team that you can't stand. Cause I seriously doubt he was trying to hit you in PRACTICE. Seriously- get over yourself.
     
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  10. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Does a partner really deserve to be yelled at for hitting a weak shot? Have you never hit a weak lob before? And they shouldn't need a warning, they should be able to read their opponents' preparation for an overhead smash.
     
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  11. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    what exactly is the downside to warning your partner if you put up a short lob?
     
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  12. Jim A

    Jim A Professional

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    is turning your back on a point in doubles common knowledge of conceding a point? New to me if so
     
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  13. Geezer Guy

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    When you and your partner "switched", you should have gone to the baseline instead of staying at the net.
    From the net, you have no play if your partner throws up a short lob - or basicily hits ANY ball to your opponents net man.
    From the baseline, however, you and your partner can take the net together if he throws up a GOOD lob, or you'll be in a position to make a play on a ball that goes to the opposing net man.
    That's what I would have done.
     
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  14. goober

    goober Legend

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    Actually this one of the times I would turn my head and see what my partner is doing. I know they teach you not to look at your partner, but I think you have enough time with a deep lob. If it looks like he is going to barely get to it and hit a defensive shot, I would retrieve to the baseline. If he looks like he is going to get to it easily and have time to set up, I would stay at the net because I would assume he could place the ball away from the netman or do a deep lob.

    I guess the real question is if you concede a point by turning your head, it is unsportsmanlike conduct to hit an overhead right at you? I would say in practice session- yes especially since it is your teammate.

    In a tourney I am not so sure. Many variations of this question have been asked before and I think most people say it is a fair shot in a competitive situation as long as the intent was not there to hurt or harm you.
     
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  15. marcb

    marcb New User

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    It's called "The Move" according to the book Operation Doubles (a great book BTW) and is supposedly practiced by the pros. It's designed to avoid injury if there is no chance to win the point. I think I've observed in it one high ranking pro match on TV but I'll guess it happens more at the lower levels.

    The rules of the game actually say that the person being hit is causing a hindrance. I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the exact text handy but the gist is that you can't take over a portion of the court just by being there and expect it to be a no hit zone.

    That being said, it was a practice and a headshot to boot?! Yikes. In three and a half years I've accidentally hit someone once and I play aggressively. So he's either got bad ball control or is a complete jerk. Both are about as bad especially in a team environment. Your captain should talk to him. One bad apple, etc.

    BTW, the book also says that running backwards is a really bad idea because your natural reflexes won't allow you to do anything well while moving backwards. Better to take a big step back and plant. This is designed to give you a fighting chance should you choose to take it.
     
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  16. onehandbh

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    super glue the glasses back together and continue play. If you're eye
    hurts, then cut a dead ball in half w/ a knife (or metal tennis can top)
    and make a protective patch to cover your eye. The convex shape will
    protect your eye from future attacks.
     
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  17. spot

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    Who the hell looks at their opponent to see what direction they are facing when they are hitting an overhead? Me? I sort of prefer to look up at the ball.
     
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  18. ChipNCharge

    ChipNCharge Professional

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    Section 33 of The Code: "Talking During the Point"

    "A player shall not talk while the ball is moving toward the opponent's side of the court. If the player's talking interferes with an opponent's ability to play the ball, the player loses the point. Consider the situation where a player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at his or his partner to get back. If the shout is loud enough to distract an opponent, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance"
     
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  19. Slicendicer

    Slicendicer Guest

    That went down at a team practice?? No way... we would have had words after the match. Game on... you got plenty of time for revenge... just wait patiently, do not force a "bad" shot out of emotion... when the time is right... nail that SOB with an overhead or a high volley.

    Mans game.
     
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  20. spot

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    Who said anything about yelling at your partner so loud as to distract the opponent?

    You do realize this was practice right?

    And have you ever seen a hindrance call on one partner telling another to get back?

    Seriously- get a grip and start communicating out there on the court.
     
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  21. Crusher10s

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    As soon as I realized the lob was over my head and my partner was going to have to cover it, I'd have switched back to the baseline like Geezer said and then waited to see what my partner did with the lob. If I didn't have time to switch all the way back then I would've watched the reaction of the opposing net player to see whether he was going to hit an overhead and then if it was too late to get back then I'd either turn and do the "move" to the alley or I'd hold my ground (would depend on how hard my opponent could hit an overhead at me) and attempt to block the shot back. All those decisions can be made in the blink of an eye so frankly I don't see why you got hit if you're really a 4.5 rated player who should at that level know exactly how to handle that situation.
     
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  22. Tennisman912

    Tennisman912 Semi-Pro

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    TM

    I would have to agree with goober and Geezer Guy. If a lob goes over your head and you don’t get it yourself, you should not be rushing the net on the other side of the court. You should be retreating and if you partner does hit a good lob over your opponent’s heads, you can both go toward the net. You have plenty of time to watch the ball and defend against your partner’s probable less than perfect lob. You should be back near the baseline because a real 4.5 is going to be hitting a pretty good over head out of the air against any shot that doesn't hit their baseline.

    I have never seen a 4.5 player rush the net when they are in such a disadvantageous situation. Assuming your opponents are also 4.5, I would think they see you out of the corner of their eye and should have the skills to not hit you. Having said that, even though it may be poor sportsmanship to hit someone turning, hitting in their direction and yes even hitting them on purpose is still a legitimate play irregardless of it being in poor taste (not that I would ever do so, especially in practice). Protecting yourself is the first rule of tennis. Glad to hear you are ok.

    TM
     
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  23. 10sguy

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    ChipnCharge was 100% correct; Read/understand the hindrance rule and play by it. FYI, "loud enough to distract the opponent" is determined by the opponent; the player/team talking/causing the hindrance has absolutely no say in the matter. It's REAL SIMPLE . . . button your lip after striking the ball/before the opponent(s) hits it. AFTER the opponent strikes the ball, you may communicate with your partner.
     
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  24. moonbat

    moonbat Semi-Pro

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    Heh...are you the guy who hit him? ;)
     
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  25. spot

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    Personally I'll keep communicating with my partner. If the other team wants to be jerks and complain about legitimate communication that is not intended to distract them at all then I'll adjust from there. But I have played enough other sports and it woudl be tough to not communicate with my partner at this point. To me calling hindrance if they other team warns their partner about a short lob is right up there with footfaults where you are entitled to call it but its a pathetic move in the vast majority of situations.
     
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  26. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    No downside to it. But if my partner yelled at me for hitting a weak shot or not warning them when they should be able to read the situation, then I'd tell them to go F themselves.

    A good player can read their opponents' movements to know what they are going to do next. There is no benefit to focusing strictly on the ball as it goes to your opponents' side and not read what the opponents are going to do with the ball.
     
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  27. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    From my observations of pro doubles, if a player is too close to the net and their opponent gets a weak shot they can overhead smash, it is common practice to turn around because it is safer to get hit in the back then hit in the front with the ball.

    Also for someone to be in this "sitting duck" position, there is no time to backpedal far enough back that you can 1) protect yourself from injury or 2) reliably get your racquet on the ball. That is why they turn around because its the only reasonable option available.
     
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  28. nickynu

    nickynu Semi-Pro

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    Im not sure what the problem is here? There are idiots in life whatever sport you play. Sounds like this guy is one of them , its unfortunate but hey-ho,

    but hey here's the thing - he did not do anything wrong technically- so just go out there and repeatedly make the guy look a fool by beating him, as I am sure that will hurt him far more than you trying to get him back with a smash.

    I also think the guy probably knows if you have been bad-mouthing him, could you have brought it on yourself. ? just a thought.
     
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  29. JRstriker12

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    Just wondering - how did the guy act after he hit you? Was he a jerk? Did he apologize?
     
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  30. TheGreatestAudia

    TheGreatestAudia Rookie

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    This is lame. I highly doubt this guy was trying to hit you, let alone, in the face. I don't care how good you are, that is an almost impossible shot to make. He mis-hit the ball! Don't be a girl when it comes to accidents like this. Your teammate and partner do not owe you anything. I'm sure the guy apologized to you and felt bad.

    Also, if you really were going to cede the point, why wouldn't you turn completely around? Why continue to watch? If he had mis-hit the ball and it barely trickled over the net, you would have gone after it. There is no reason for that guy to let up.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  31. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I am curious about this statement. How many people has he hit in the head before? I've been playing over 30 years and I can't remember ever hitting someone in the face or head with a ball.
     
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  32. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    I have been hit in the face *hard* twice by the same person playing across the net from me in doubles ... most men will hit at the feet or away with a winner. He likes to hit women in the face. I had to to get ice for my nose after the match.

    It resulted from my partner having a weak serve. This was back before I knew about such things. Since then my coach has told me to move back with a partner with a weaker serve which allows the net person to get a big return.

    What I did back then was practice having my racquet up so when he was at the net diagonally from me I was ready ... the next time he hit the ball at my face I blocked the ball up the middle for a winner and just smirked at him.

    Of course this maneuver requires turning the racquet in my hand to a frying pan grip in front of my face which is not the way I would normally play the net. I cannot protect my face with a continental grip, have tried before. So I went with this method when I am playing a jerk. This is not something I would normally be thinking, but some people get a reputation.

    The other men give him a bad time about it, he has reputation, but he doesn't seem to care, so I practiced to defend against people like that. I have only seen one woman (claimed she is a 4.0) who would intentionally hit to the face. But it does happen.
     
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  33. bobbynorwich

    bobbynorwich New User

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    Just don't play with that dude again.
     
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  34. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    This is why I'm an advocate of women being higher rated than men in mixed competition. It boggles my mind why women often want to play at a mixed level higher than what their rating is rather than a level lower where they are more competitive, when they are just going to be target practice.

    I think this guy you mention has some pretty disgusting behavior though. I'm used to every shot being directed at the woman, but its not to injure, just to defeat the opposing team.
     
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  35. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    I have hit at least two people in the face with a tennis ball in the last 1.5 years. Once in a mens 4.0 doubles match, i hit an overhead, that hit the ground, bounced up and hit my opponent in the face. I apologized, but he was angry. The second time I was serving in a 3.5 mixed doubles league, i hit a 2nd serve with lots of spin, the ball bounced, and the lady, probably in her early 60's, didnt know which way it was going, and got hit in the eye. I apologized, and we took a break for about 5 minutes.

    I often hit people, i dont aim for the face, but if they crowd me at net when I am hitting an overhead, i will aim the ball in their general direction.


     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2009
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  36. bleach

    bleach Rookie

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    Suck it up....

    If you don't want the risk of being hit, then don't play the net.
     
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  37. TheGreatestAudia

    TheGreatestAudia Rookie

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    That guy got ticked because the ball bounced and hit him in the face?! "Sorry sir! Next time, I will make sure it does not bounce first!" I am so glad I have not run into this crap before. Probably because I do not play ALTA...
     
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  38. Joe Average

    Joe Average Rookie

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    My immediate reaction is same as that of Geezer Guy, Moz, and Crusher. Why didn't you go back? When someone lobs over your head, yes, you switch, but you move back diagonally. You should not have been any closer to the net than behind the service line. And you should have been watching your opponents for their reaction, not your teammate. If he puts up a weak lob, you still have time to move to the baseline (where you should have been standing). If he puts up a lob that forces them back, then you have plenty of time to rush the net. One does not get hit in the face with an overhead while standing near the baseline. But I'm sorry you were hit. And if it were me, my first impulse would have been to get angry (mixed with embarrassment). But if I were standing where you were, I'd have to assume much of the blame. I'm sure your opponent/teammate felt pretty bad about it. But would you want him to play less aggressively against another team?
     
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  39. skiracer55

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    One thing that nobody seems to have asked...

    ...is did the guy say "Sorry" or something to that effect? That's pretty much de rigeur in this situation...and if this happens, you're kind of honor bound to shake it off. If on the other hand the guy didn't say anything, IMHO the gloves are off and you can hit him right in the cojones the next chance you get...
     
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  40. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

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    Since we're confessing... I don't think I've ever hit an opponent in the face, but I've hit my partner in the head several times when serving, and once I hit my partner (different guy this time) square in the face when I was trying to squeeze a groundstroke cross-court when he was at the net. He turned to watch me hit, and took a ball square between the eyes, breaking his glasses, cutting he face, etc. (That's another good reason NOT to watch your partner hit the ball.)
    Personally, I was hit smack in the forehead when I tried to poach against a 5.0 player one time. I felt pretty stupid. He hit a big groundie of a soft serve, and I just couldn't get my racquet up in time.
     
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  41. JRstriker12

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    I'm with you on this Raiden. Or how about making women's rankings equal to male rankings? IMHO - they don't match up sometimes.

    On occasion, I have been the target in target practice in mixed off my partner's serve. I had to suck it up and just

    One thing I think is kind of funny, is if I get hit, it's usually my fault for not reacting quick enough or being out of position. I mean, if the ball is coming at me from a ground stroke and I have time to try to duck it, I should have enough time to put a racket up. Almost got nailed in the head in a recent match. One, time had a net cord ball that smacked me in the forehead. I had to laugh.
     
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  42. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    I think you mean ratings, not rankings....just wanted to clarify.

    JR, in our league, though, I would also argue that more guys are sandbagging than women, so that only exacerbates the perceived difference.

    You know JJ has a soft serve...you should be ready!!!!!

    And, did I not get nailed with the guy's overhead partnering with you once? ;) Why are you setting me up for target practice?!?! :)
     
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  43. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    1 foot up opponents @55 for hitting me intentionally

    1 foot up partners @55 for pathetic lob giving opponent opportunity
     
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  44. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    Would you say that to a man who is trying to get better ?

    I did the right thing and trained to be prepared the next time and I was. :) My net reflexes were slow when I started out and they have gotten much better as I was motivated to get quicker.

    He didn't apologize and he has a reputation .... just made me learn to evaluate my partner's serve and be on the alert for behavior like that.
    A beginner has no clue that their partner's serve sets up a situation like that. I know better now.

    I never dreamed that someone would hit at another person's face, after all we are not wearing safety glasses or full face helmuts .... so I learned the hard way.

    When I played racquet ball no one would consider coming onto the court without glasses, but then men would hit people in the back with the ball as hard as they could to intimidate them.
    There are all kinds of players out there and some of them not so nice.

    I look at it sort of like a tournament where I don't get to chose my opponents.

    That way when I go to a tournament I will be mentally and physically prepared for whatever happens.

    Of course I would not choose to socialize with people like this, LOL
     
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  45. blakesq

    blakesq Professional

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    What the hell does this mean? Try it again, but this time using proper English.

     
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  46. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    Great avatar of Roger and Rafa !
     
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  47. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Personally, I don't care what level you are or if you are a man or woman...aiming at someone's face is not cool. If it is an accident...fine. If not...then the person doing the aiming has some serious issues and should probably look into some kind of full body impact sport rather than tennis.

    You can hit me anywhere else (well, the neck wasn't fun either), and I'll take it like a *woman*, because I know I'm there to play. And again, accidents happen.

    But for the life of me, I can NOT understand, particularly in a league match, why someone would think it is okay to intentionally aim at an opponent's face.
     
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  48. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    I think that was to get past the censors, LOL

    * s s
     
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  49. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    But you're a ball magnet Topaz. IIRC - I think it happens almost every TWMAC meet-up ;)

    Yes, everyone will push up a soft lob every once in a while. I'm not complaining about that. I've been hit and hit people (accidentally) in that manner. But being a target off a serve for 4+ points, where it's pretty much accepted to hit at the net guy is not fun. You don't have to serve hard, but a little practice on placement and spin can go a long way.

    I also said I sucked it up and stood at the net and that most of the time if I get hit, it's my fault. The last time I got hit, I should have thrown my racket up instead of ducking. For the record pt. 1- I also stood in there for my male Capt. when his serve gets crushed in combo... even less fun when that guy is a 4.0.

    For the record pt. 2 - I did not name anyone in particular.

    Yes, I meant ratings. I don't know. I don't think most of the guys I ran up against in our league were sandbagging. Only that 7ft guy was clearly on a much better level and his female partner was too. She'd give most 4.0 guys a run. So far, most of the guys I have played were about my level - and I don't think I'm sandbagging. All I know is that I run into the target practice off of serve problem more often in mixed than in non-mixed.
     
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  50. Topaz

    Topaz Legend

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    Oh yeah...I keep forgetting that!

    Is this a bad time to mention that I got hit last night in clinic...in the warm-up?!?

    Six of my opponents last season got the bump. Six. And I didn't play that many matches.

    I've never seen so many people playing out of level before than I did during commonwealth.
     
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