What's the appeal of rap?

Discussion in 'Odds & Ends' started by max, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    yes but the formula is there. the transition between tracks. the big diff to me is the theme. with 20/20 its more diverse. for example let the groove in is more salsa esque, then that girl is more country, etc etc
     
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  2. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    and yes strawberry is filthy!
     
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  3. vkartikv

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    Max, every generation asks the same questions to the next one. I'm sure johann strauss did it just as much as elvis as much as you are doing now. And it's not limited to just music.
     
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  4. Overdrive

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    This is a complete guess! :)
     
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  5. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    That was my first thought as well :)

    As for the OP, I'm just speculating, however I believe neither he nor his homies have ever pimped a ho.
     
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  6. heycal

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    You're good.
     
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  7. dParis

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    Parents hate it.
     
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  8. Fandango

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    It's funny when I see a women listening to rap, because usually a rapper raps in a derogatory manner towards women.
     
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  9. TennisLovaLova

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    hip hop is not a type of music in my opinion
    it's a lifestyle, not a specific style of music but a global way to dress, behave, talk, move and approach life
     
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  10. max

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    au contraire. . . I did when my Volvo 740 broke down on the highway. I popped the hood and used a rusty screwdriver and got it going again. I think that's the part under the air filter, no?

    I guess I just find the rap stuff so repetitive that, yes, it is reminiscent of the limited range of disco. Heck, I'm glad you like it, if you like it; it's water off my back and means naught to me.

    I find it interesting that teens are enamored with 1980s music; this is the yin to the rap yang.
     
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  11. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    2 live made some of the greatest dance songs of all times. They have never degraded a woman in thier lives.

    I dont know what you are talking about, we need examples here.
     
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  12. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    How so? the best hits of the 80s were made on a drum machine with live studio musicians in support on Bass, guitar and synth. A lot like rap. Phil Collins, an 80s god who came from behind a kit made his hit record on a drum machine. Many of the most famous drum parts he programmed were simple loops, just like rap.

    In fact the only difference between "take me home" and a rap song is melodic vocals. So what you are saying is that you prefer a singer over a rapper. You don't really know what repetition is because your ears don't know how to listen for those things.
     
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  13. heycal

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    The problem with rap is not lyrics, repeitition, violence, or whatever. It's that its not MUSIC. It's some other form of spoken word peformance, and as such, is about as appealing on a musical level as a Shakespeare play is appealing musically, which is to say, not at all.



    I suspect Martinez's wife would have a different opinion on this.
     
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  14. hollywood9826

    hollywood9826 Semi-Pro

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    I think matinez' wife was just happy that her name got dropped on song. She didnt feel degraded at all.

    Now Whitney houston i will always love you thats degrading to women. I dontknow what she was thinking on that one.
     
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  15. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

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    I'm 19. I enjoy rap from rappers like Eninem, Lil Wayne (on a rare occassion, I hate most of his songs), Drake, and Macklemore (just got into him recently).

    I grew up in a upper middle class family outside of New York City. I have never lived in the ghetto but I just enjoy the music cause of the beat and the fact the music sometimes had deep lyrics granted it has a lot of profanity but I like a little flare with the lyrics I listen to.

    I live in Philadelphia at the moment and I'm about 2-3 blocks from dangerous parts of west Philly. I love it here and I just love that vibe of being ghetto and cultural with rap. Most of the people I meet when I'm walking through there late at night are very polite and say hi.

    Something about rap has always gotten me motivated when I feel down on a certain day. It also has helped me get pumped up for sports and work outs.

    It's just personal taste. I have friends my age who cannot stand rap and I'm perfectly fine with that. Some music genres aren't for everything. For example, I'm ok with everything for the most part but I have trouble listening to more than 2 or 3 songs in a row in the genre of country music.
     
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  16. qwertre

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  17. Power Player

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    Its just what old people say - "XXXX is not music".

    Of course it is. People dance to it, listen to it to get inspired, bob their heads to it, work out to it. It's a statement of ignorance to say rap is not music.

    Many say the same thing about electronic as well. And they continue to live in the past thinking their choice of music is better.
     
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  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

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    I like Macklemore too, I think his energy is amazing. And then there's Ray Dalton, the dude's voice is amazing!
     
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  19. heycal

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    No, it's really NOT music. This isn't an old person's viewpoint per se. I mean, I dislike all sorts of kids music, not just rap -- not to mention pretty much hate jazz, which is old foggy stuff -- but at least I recognize all that as musical.

    Rap ain't got no melody, a key ingredient. Rythym and noise ain't enough to make it "music". If it were, I'd like to introduce to a new album by favorite group -- the 6 train from Grand Central to to 86th street. Or the Jackhammers, who are taking America by storm and drilling holes in a city near you!
     
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  20. heycal

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    Yeah, okay...
     
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  21. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Mainstream rap is garbage, that stuff misrepresents the entire genre and provokes the common rap stereotype. The lyrics are nonsensical, superficial "**** *****es, make money" stuff and just sound bland as hell. There's little diversity in mainstream rap beyond some of the stuff Kanye puts out, but even that gets derivative fast.

    Go check out good rap by digging into indie rap acts.But be warned, like all indie, you'll need to do some digging to sift the good from the bad.
     
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  22. Power Player

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    Actually most rap does have a chorus hook or melody. It's funny to read your posts about music, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Especially since you said it was not music, and then said it was music literally 2 sentences later. LOL.
     
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  23. Say Chi Sin Lo

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    I didn't want to be mean, but yeah, that's about it. I never discount an art. It's like calling a painting not a painting. I may not agree with it, but I still recognize it as art.
     
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  24. max

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    Philosophically, some kinds/genres of art may well be morally objectionable.

    I haven't studied rap enough to suggest this at all, but I would throw you this consideration.

    I'm glad you like rap. :)
     
    #74
  25. WildVolley

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    On a positive note, rap has probably played a role in encouraging a lot of criminals to murder each other. Straight out of Compton by NWA celebrated the rappers murdering other criminals, and a lot of rappers adopted that lifestyle and actually ended up dead: Tupac for example.
     
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  26. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Suspect very little encouragement was needed to murder each other. A lil Phillip Glass will do.
     
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  27. T1000

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    And you know nothing about rap.

    Biggie
    Nas
    2pac
    Andre 3000
    Pharoahe Monch
    Rakim
    R.A. the Rugged Man
    Big L
    KRS-One
    Vinnie Paz

    All better than Jay Z.
     
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  28. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I'm going to get some popcorn for this, proceed.
     
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  29. zapvor

    zapvor Legend

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    what about we post our fav rap line?
     
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  30. Andyroddickfan

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    I could say the same thing: you know nothing about rap.
    So, to continue this conversation seems pointless because according to us, neither of us know anything about rap. You might also want to define 'better'. If two people who know nothing of a subject are going to debate about it, there has to be at least one known. At least my buddy chin ho Kelly gave his opinion about why he thought tupac was the greatest.

    Just to show you how much I know about rap. Here are the people better than biggie: nicki minaj, Blake shelton, maroon 5 and pearl jam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
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  31. T1000

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    So in other words, you have never heard of anyone I just posted, only spit out mainstream names, and no nothing about rap. That was easier than I thought it would be.
     
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  32. TomT

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    Good answers, imho. I'm replying to this thread not because I necessarily either like or don't like rap, but because it's 3am, I can't sleep, have nothing much else to do right now, and am interested in music in general.
    I think that we tend to like the music that we grow up with, that we're most exposed to in our formative years. I grew up in the '50s and '60s in *******ern America suburbia (adjacent to a relatively big city). Guess what a lot of the music that I like, that has some 'meaning' for me, is? :) But I consider myself sort of lucky in that I'm also a musician, so my musical tastes became, over time, quite varied. Imho, whatever the genre, if it's done well, then it's worthy of appreciation.

    Regarding the OP, do I like or prefer rap? No. At least re the small amount of it that I've actually listened to. But then I wouldn't be expected to like or prefer it, as I'm a child of '50s and '60s mainstream America. Do I understand rap's appeal? I think so.

    I should clarify that I refer to it as rap, rather than rap music, because it seems to me that rap is more a unique lyrical than a musical style or genre.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
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  33. Legend of Borg

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    #83
  34. PhrygianDominant

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    I am a professional classical musician, albeit a struggling one. If anyone has a reason to be threatened by rap it is me, but I am going to defend it.

    Rap is music. There I said it. I have three degrees in classical music, and I am an educator, so I know what I am talking about.

    I know of a piece by Hanz Werner Henze which contains spoken vocals rather than singing over an accompaniment. I saw it arranged for solo guitar and voice. It was music, even though the vocals are not sung.

    Did you know that Stravinsky's Rite of Spring featured such provacative choreagraphy in the original Paris premier that it started a riot? This is the premier of a Classical Ballet, in the 19th Century, in Paris. People have been arguing about "the new" since the beginning of time. The old don't accept the new, what else is new?
     
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  35. PhrygianDominant

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    Some food for thought: Just as in all genres, there is good and bad. Bach may be the most distinct master of his contemporary stylye, but even he has some bad pieces, or at least pieces I don't like.

    EDIT: so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, that's what I am saying.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2013
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  36. Andyroddickfan

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    I never said I've never heard of anyone you just posted. I spit out mainstream names that were not rappers. You still have not defined 'better'.
     
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  37. heycal

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    You have reading comprehension problems? I never contradicted myself.

    I guess I've missed all this melody and harmony filled rap you seem to mysteriously know of....

    Except in this case, a more apt analogy is that it's like calling a photograph a movie.

    Look, you kids are free to like your Bieber, Kardashians, and rap music. You'll probably grow out of it someday though.
     
    #87
  38. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Does it ever occur to you that a person can actually appreciate a wide range of music? I like my rap and hip hop, so what? And I also like Antonio Vivaldi and Ludovico Einaudi.

    You don't see me and other "kids" knocking you on what you like.
     
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  39. heycal

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    Of course. I do, and most other people do too. But we can also recognize non-musical garbage when we see it too.

    Look, this is America. You are free to like Bieber and the Kardashains and rap and all that nonsense. But others are free to criticize this crap at the same time.
     
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  40. Say Chi Sin Lo

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    Well you definitely can't spell "assume" without the first 3 letters of that word. When did any of us profess an affinity towards Bieber and Kardashains?

    Why didn't you quote my entire post and address the latter parts, tell me if that's music?
     
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  41. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

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    ......and you kids, GET OFF MY LAWN!
     
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  42. 2ManyAces

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    Its like poetry

    beat

    energy
     
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  43. TomT

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    What instrument(s)?

    I don't feel threatened by rap, as I almost never hear it unless it's forced on me via a gugawatt sound system in the back of somebody's vehicle.

    You don't have to defend rap to me. I didn't trash it. I just said I don't like it. I guess I should clarify that. I would characterize Rap Music as an artistic medium that, in the form that I'm familiar with, consists of a verbal part (which, in my experience, is spoken or shouted) which I call the rap part in order to distinguish it from the musical part, and a musical part (the instrumental/percussion part). It's the verbal or rap part that I don't like.

    But then I don't, in general, like vocal music of any sort. I prefer instrumental music.

    Yes you did. :)

    Not necessarily, however if you're saying that you like Rap Music (ie., the verbal spoken or shouting part together with the instrumental part), then I'm sure you do know what you're talking about.

    In the same sense, when I say that I don't like the verbal part of Rap Music (or the verbal part of most any music for that matter), then I know what I'm talking about.

    I don't have any musical degrees, but I've written a lot of original music. Some of it is linked to in my TT profile. If you have a chance to listen to some of it, and find that you like any of it, then maybe we can do a musical internet collaboration of some sort. Perhaps some tennis-inspired Rap Music ... with you doing the rap part and me the instrumental music part? :)

    I would differentiate between spoken or shouted verbalizations on one hand, and singing, percussion, and instrumental music on the other hand, and would not refer to the former, taken by itself, as music.

    I don't think that's true at all. I don't think it's the newness of the verbal part of Rap Music that people find offensive. Do you?
     
    #93
  44. chrischris

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    Originally it was a kinda way for the ghetto to be heard in a new way. Soul was made for radio,rap for the street.
    it got conned and it sucks nowadays as far as i am informed.
     
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  45. rommil

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    Says the guy who wears Tommy Bahama:)
     
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  46. heycal

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    Kardashians, Bieber, rap. Whatever. Same garbage.

    Why are you asking me to address the latter part of your post, wherein you mention actual music you like? What would you like me to say to that, "good for you! Not everything you like is garbage"?

    Perhaps so. But don't call it music.

    I don't wear Tommy Bahama. I said I like some of his stuff. Very nice looking/feeling and well-made. So what? It's just another kind of clothing. It's not like I'm saying "I like the clothes that General Mills makes. Cheerios boxes are great shirts."
     
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  47. qwertre

    qwertre Rookie

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    By the logic of some, a percussionist is not a musician because he/she does not create melody or pitch patterns. Some forms of music are rhythmic and harmonic rather than creating a melody.

    I'm perfectly fine with disliking genres of music, but I don't like all of this "it isn't music" garbage. I used to be told that heavy metal was "too loud and not pretty enough" and therefore was not music. That seems to me to be equally fallacious logic as "there's not enough melody." (Just for the record, that wasn't an actual quote, just what I read into the conversations.)

    Sure, rappers don't create music in the way that other people do, but have you ever heard a good rap song in which the rapper speaks/sings/shouts in monotone? I haven't. If the rapper doesn't harmonize with the other musicians, the song sounds AWFUL! As I said before, the reason most people would say rap isn't music is because the roles of melody and rhythm are reversed. That should not signify that rap isn't music because as I also said before, rappers do not rap solo on most if not all of their albums.
     
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  48. max

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    imho, this comes across as a cheap shot. . . the notion of a crusty old man not adjusting to new fads.

    In reality, that old guy with the hairs in his nose may well have listened to much, much music and have some experience judging different pieces of music. You get experience, and better judgment, as you get older, as a rule.

    I really liked Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five when they came out. I just haven't seen rap really maturing and addressing the full range of human concerns and emotions. It is often all about empty, flatulent self-assertion, from what I can make of it, and this is off-putting to folks.

    I take pride in the wide range of music I listen to, and this is why I'm so baffled that there's not much substance in rap for me to get excited about. You want country? Try Hank Williams the first or Emmylou Harris. There's good stuff done by country artists. There's good stuff done by indie alternative acts as well, etc.
     
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  49. max

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    One thing to be concerned about is whether the themes in rap preclude raplovers from being open to criticism of rap.
     
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  50. qwertre

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    I realize that this is kind of like the "you're so argumentative" "No I'm not!" thing, but your comment seems to me to be irrelevant. These mystical "themes" being what?
     

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