What's the best way to attack a slice and dice player?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Rickson, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    One guy I play always and I mean always uses the slice, hoping the unusual bounce will force an error which it does on occasion. What is the best way to attack his stupid slice shots? I usually hit them back flat or sometimes slice back at him, but his shots usually don't bounce high enough to hit my bread and butter topspin forehand back at him. How can I hit back a clean and fast winner at him if his balls are too low and have backspin?
     
    #1
  2. TwistServe

    TwistServe Guest

    Roddick's been slicing lots of his backhands in Wimbledon and its been winning him free points.
     
    #2
  3. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Why are slice shots stupid? Frustrating maybe, but not stupid. Do you dropshot him and bring him to net? I wouldn't try to hit a clean winner off a low slice, but just be patient and wait for a short ball that does bounce up that you can attack and hit to one corner or the other.
     
    #3
  4. predrag

    predrag Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    1,012
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, MI
    Since the well played slice ball usually stays very low, out of your power zone,
    you should not blindly blast it. What you should do is move your opponent
    around, creating an opening, and hopefully higher ball.

    My favorite play is deep forehand crosscourt, angle to the forehand, deep to the
    backhand, closing to the net.


    Regards, Predrag
     
    #4
  5. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Actually this guy brings me to net. What I do for defense is I lob the ball so I can get myself back to baseline because he loves to lob the net player.
     
    #5
  6. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    I have a guy that uses a slice backhand real well. He has that knifing Stephi Graf slice, I tend to make a lot of errors on my forehand side trying to get the ball back up over the net. He also has that short angled slow slice that comes out of nowhere, barely clears the net and somehow paints the middle of the service box sideline and is nearly impossible to run down. That is the one I hate the most especially when I know I hit a tough ball to him and all of a sudden - I lost the point. We nicknamed him Felix. Yes, after Felix the Cat with his bag of tricks.

    One of the things that I noticed (all slicers are different) that has worked for me against this guy is to always go after his slice. I mean I hit my serves to his backhand and my shots go to his backhand - all the time. I hide nothing.

    I want him to slice the ball all the time. I can build a strategy around the way he hits his slice and it also allows me to learn how to move my feet and recognize a shorter ball if he hits one. I basically give him less angles and a shorter court. If I try to hit the normal crosscourt shots and get into a baseline rally, I come out bleeding pretty bad from those slices.

    I stopped playing his slice as a baseline ball. I changed my preception in other words. I thought to myself, what is the risk factor for a person with a good slice? Answer: Keeping it in the court. So I started playing more forward instead of side to side. Most slicers try and get the ball to land a little past the service line and so forth to keep the ball in the court.

    So when I hit a ball to his backhand I would take a couple of steps in ready to take the ball further in the court then I usually take it. I put a lot of pressure on that slice and won.

    If I stayed in the backcourt looking to rally baseline shot to baseline shot and wait for the "short ball" - that was a losing plan. Wanting to always take the sliced ball in the court more was a winning propsition at least against Felix the Cat!
     
    #6
  7. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Can you hit a short-angled shot or dropshot back when he brings you to net? Then move back to the center T so that he can't lob you or dropshot you. Is your net game better than his net game? He sounds like he has the short slice-lob combo down pretty well so you need to get him off the baseline if you can.
     
    #7
  8. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    So you're saying that a little deeper return will throw him off, BB?
     
    #8
  9. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Yes, I took his back out by doing it once. He sliced a drop on me but I ran it down. He stayed by the baseline, expecting to slice another one, but I hit a very short dropshot on him that he tried to run down, but threw his back out in the process. Sometimes one's own strategy can be used against him.
     
    #9
  10. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    Play the slice as if it is a short ball - all the time, even if it isn't. As soon as you hit to his backhand and he brings his racquet up to slice, take two or three steps forward looking to go to net - always. You will beat his recovery chances and take the next ball to the open court. Dont try and change the strategy to a side-to-side baseline game. Slicers do not necessarily test your side to side movement, they test your forward movement. Which is mentally (not physically) why your getting off balance with this guy.

    He hits one shot deep and you subconsiously think it is going to be about two or three shot baseline rally before he whips up his little trick. Dont think that anymore. Always go after that backhand side, get him to slice and as he does, move in more. If he hits it deep, move back and hit it right back to his backhand, move back in for the short ball, etc. So go to his slice since you know what to expect. As an advanced players we have been trained and know that we should go to the weakness of a player. That is true, but in this case I went to the shot that was beating me and made it a weakness.

    If you take away his slice, you take away his lob.
     
    #10
  11. Golden Retriever

    Golden Retriever Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,950
    When I play a really good slicer I switch to the one-hand BH mode. If you can only slice with the onehander do so. If you can both drive and slice with the onehander so much the better. A good slicer is a two-hander's worst nightmare, especially on grass. That's why even Moya slices most of his backhands on grass. Even on hard court a good slicer can really raise hell for the 2hander with their low bouncing underspin balls. So take away their advantage by switching to the onehander.
    Don't give him any angles and don't get fancy with your backhand. If you don't give him any angles he probably can't hit any winners against you and you should be in command. Just be patient and wait for the opportunity to rise. It will.
     
    #11
  12. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Just one thing though, he slices with his forehand.
     
    #12
  13. jayserinos99

    jayserinos99 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,888
    I know of a guy that slices off of both sides all the time. When I watched him play, he was really consistent and he kept the ball low to the ground. But his opponent realized that and did what BB mentioned: he stepped in and took the offensive. As soon as he anticipated where that slice was, he made the slicer move around. All the slicer could do was lob back, where the other guy was waiting at the service line for an easy overhead.
     
    #13
  14. Web Crawler

    Web Crawler New User

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    Messages:
    37
    The Number 4 Singles player on my team did this to me all the time. It was until I developed my 1 hand backhand that this didnt work for him. I know that doesnt answer your question and Besides going for a winner the only think you can do is slice it back or hit back a ball and make him move. Its a bit harder to slice on the run or on a tight angle.
     
    #14
  15. Brent Pederson

    Brent Pederson Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    464
    I think Bungalow has the right idea (as usual!). A couple of other thoughts I can add. I play a fellow who sounds a lot like felix as well. Can hit the slice well off both sides, especially if he gets a ball that's a little bit short, he can really get me running for the angles.

    What has worked for me against him is:

    1. Hit deep loopy high balls to his backhand side, which bring more errors.

    2. Come in to net behind them and put the pressure on him. The slice is not a very good passing shot, and you should be able to volley most of them away for winners.
     
    #15
  16. phidias barrios

    phidias barrios New User

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    48
    What do you mean by that?

    Phidias Barrios.
     
    #16
  17. serveboy

    serveboy Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    179
    If all he does is slice just come into the net.

    Hit a good approach and await the easy return. Putting away slice passing shots is one of the easiest things in tennis. The slice gives you tremendous time to really get in close and angle your volleys.

    If you're not a good volleyer, you're in for a tough match every time.
     
    #17
  18. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    The last time I played him, I double bageled him and never came to net. I beat him by hitting hard groundstrokes and when he attempted his slice, the shots always went out. I found that hitting with good pace is the best neutralizer for him because any puff shots will be sliced, but his accuracy gets thrown way off with a little speed on the ball.
     
    #18
  19. K!ck5w3rvE

    K!ck5w3rvE Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,621
    Hit the ball well in front of the baseline so you are connecting at a higher position. Get a lot of topspin onto the ball and rip it into sharp angles so they have to stretch and make a loopy, short return with less slice. Then come in and attack it, hit on the rise, and nail it like Gonzalez.
     
    #19
  20. Morpheus

    Morpheus Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    1,136
    YES. That's exactly right, especially if he doesn't have a topspin backhand. You can come in on that side and all he can do is lob or give you a high floater. Deep loopy shots are definitely the way to go.
     
    #20
  21. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    On the guy I played, I always took a step forward when he hit his backhand slice. I couldnt come in all the time because he would hit his slice deep at times, so I would hit it back to his backhand and take some steps forward always trying to get a jump on the ball when he didnt hit the slice deep, then I came in and hit the ball to the open court, he would most likely hit it back, I would volley the ball back to the backhand side but this time he could only hit a one segment shot (couldnt coil and get his hips into the ball) so when he tried to lob, it was a weak shot and I put it away. Seven out of ten times this combination of shots worked against his backhand slice.

    The power game did not work against this guy as he played excellent defense.
     
    #21
  22. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    I don't get it Rickson? This is what you originally posted to start these threads off.

    "One guy I play always and I mean always uses the slice...What is the best way to attack his stupid slice shots? I usually hit them back flat or sometimes slice back at him, but his shots usually don't bounce high enough to hit my bread and butter topspin forehand back at him. How can I hit back a clean and fast winner at him if his balls are too low and have backspin?"

    Then you say,

    "The last time I played him, I double bageled him and never came to net. I beat him by hitting hard groundstrokes and when he attempted his slice, the shots always went out. I found that hitting with good pace is the best neutralizer for him because any puff shots will be sliced, but his accuracy gets thrown way off with a little speed on the ball."

    Are you ok? As far as I am concerned this is a waste of time commenting on something you really weren't looking for an answer. Why would you waste our time trying to help you?

    If you know how to beat this guy and have beating him before, then keep using the same strategy until he figures out how to beat it! Every player is different and what works against one player may not work against another.
     
    #22
  23. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    How many hard groundstrokes can you hit before you start netting? I have one method of neutralizing him and I'm looking for more. My power game is not consistent and so I need to find other options.
     
    #23
  24. Cypo

    Cypo Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    355

    I'd be a little less general here about volleying slices. A floater slice is easy to put away, but someone who plays offensive slices will hit a low passing shot with backspin. These are difficult to volley offensively not only because they are low, but with the backspin they bite into the racquet and roll down it.

    I think the main things in returning sliced shots are knees and timing. The ball will either skid foreward and stay low, or if it drops vertically, bounce backward (in the extreem). You've got to get down to the skidder, and stay fluid to move in to the floater.
     
    #24
  25. drummerboy

    drummerboy Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    255
    I just defeated an excellent pusher yesterday. He has an excellent touch, dropshots a lot plays just the slice backhand and topspin forehand. He is very confident in his game and he is pushing his style of play to all the players he plays with. I was using this tactic of Bungalo Bill like taking a small steps in. I have a good forehand so I was like giving 80% of my balls to his slice and just waiting for his shorter ball and then come in with the agressive spin to his backhand. It is simple but it works. He couldn't pass me and his lobs were getting short. The key to the pushers is to stay concentrated, stay active and agressive at all times and not missing easy balls. If you do this well their game just kinnda falls to pieces.

    Matt
     
    #25
  26. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    I can understand any player wanting to learn how to beat a player. But if you beat a guy 6-0, 6-0, I think you have him pretty much figured out or the player is a lot worse than you.

    What I dont get is you didnt mention you played a power game against him (until later) and worse you didnt let us know you already beat the guy! By the way you first posted you said you tried to play a bit like him (slicing back the ball) and you made it seem you were having a hard time against this player.

    If you're going to post something I would appreciate it being a legitimate post.
     
    #26
  27. sanitarium

    sanitarium Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2004
    Messages:
    179
    Bill you're still sticking around this thread? :shock:
     
    #27
  28. Rickson

    Rickson G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Messages:
    12,740
    Location:
    USA
    Options, BB, options. I lost 1 set to this clown in the past and he never let me live it down. This guy is a trash talker extraordinaire so I need more than 1 way to beat him. I had 1 good power day, but if my strokes are not on, he'll slice and get in every ball and I must admit it's frustrating. I appreciate your tip on hitting to his backhand and it may work even better because his backhand is weak.
     
    #28
  29. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    3,877
    Location:
    In a tent, along the Silk Road
    But Rickson, if you're so good that you BAGEL everyone you play, why would you need to depend on a teaching pro's advice to beat ANYONE? Not to implicate anyone, but someone on this thread has already hinted at the fact that you really don't know what you're doing out there, especially if you can't explain yourself HERE. I'll give you some advice-legit advice-and I used to teach tennis: forget about power...these players THRIVE on using their opponents' power against them. Get to the net. If you're as good as you think you are, you will beat a pusher-most of whom don't get beyond the 4.0 level.
     
    #29
  30. Bungalo Bill

    Bungalo Bill G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Messages:
    11,885
    Now here is a wake up call! Your right! I am out.
     
    #30
  31. living4tennis

    living4tennis New User

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2004
    Messages:
    20
    My favorite play is 2 cross-court backhand slices at their feet then they hit up and I put it away with a topspin forehand the other way. it works everytime and it's suprisingly easy...why don't you learn the slice too? Don't hit up on his slices though then he can easily put the ball away.
     
    #31
  32. Skinny Dip

    Skinny Dip New User

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    99
    Most successful slicers have to have a good lob (to give them a passing shot). My partner kills you going to the net unless you force an awkward pacey shot (and even then quite often). I doubt you'll play many spinmeisters who are any good that don't have strong lobs.
     
    #32
  33. max8176

    max8176 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    169
    Watch and learn from matches between Monica Seles and Steffi Graf!!

    What I usually do against this type of players is hit a few looping shot to their slicing backhand and when they hit a short reply, hit a flat shot to their forehand side - the opening. Coming to the net is probably another successful tactic against this type of players only if you have a good volley that enable you to angle-volley the ball.
     
    #33
  34. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    977
    I rally with them, hitting steady shots with topspin off my forehand and slice off the backhand. I make sure i measure my shots extremely carefully, watching the ball closely and being sure to get right down to the ball on my backhand. I hit lots and lots of short low crosscourt backhands with slice so as to move them forward and backward. Slice and dicers move well along the baseline but generally hate to be jinked forward and backward. If they hit to your forehand on this short shot you can hit a solid forehand deep to their backhand and they are in trouble. If their shot sits up a bit you can also go behind them instead of crosscourt, a great ploy. If they come to net off it i am happy, as this is not their normal game. I'll back myself to win most points of this ilk. The main thing is patience and being able to set up openings with a series of good steady shots. The worst thing you can do is try to blow them away, unless you have a super day or are one helluva player.
     
    #34

Share This Page