What's the most impressive h2h of the top four players, not against each other?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by joeri888, Mar 8, 2012.

  1. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    So, easy question I think? What do you consider the most impressive h2h of any Djokovic, Nadal, Federer and Murray that's not a h2h against each other. So no 16-14; 19-9; 8-7 etc.

    Very curious what you guys are most impressed with.
     
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  2. GasquetGOAT

    GasquetGOAT Hall of Fame

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    Does Djokovic's 7-0 in straight finals against certain double digit slams winner count?

    I think this is the most impressive h2h stats in recent times.
     
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  3. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Uhm, no. that is against each other right? I know 7-0 and 19-9 are very impressive stats, but most of us tennis junkies are fully aware of those and they hve been discussed in full.

    But for instance, Murray's record against Roddick is not often looked at. While 8-3 might not seem that special, it is if you consider that these guys played 6 of those matches prior to 2008 and Murray won four of those.

    Federer's record against Ferrer is also very impressive in my eyes. Yes he matches up well, but with Ferrer's mental fortitude and fighting spirit, you expect him to win once or twice when Federer's somewhat off his game.
     
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  4. Love all

    Love all Semi-Pro

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    Federer vs Roddick,
    Federer vs Sodrling
    Federer vS Davydenko
    Federer vs Ferrer
     
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  5. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Ralph vs his Spanish lapdogs(all of em) :lol:
     
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  6. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    No, because Nadal leads Djokovic 5-3 in slam meetings and 16-14 overall, and Nadal won 5 straight over Djokovic within that 16-14 and Nadal won 5 straight slam meetings overall Djokovic within that 5-3. So most of the stats surrounding Nadal vs Djokovic are in Nadal's favor.
     
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  7. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    You find his record against Lopez so impressive? I think he has one or two losses against him.

    Or how about Ferrer? He's lost twice at a Slam to Daveed?
     
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  8. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    How about Federer's record vs Spanish players outside of Nadal?

    And how about Federer's record vs left-handers outside of Nadal?
     
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  9. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    What are his records? Federer at least has losses to Corretja and Montanes of the spaniards.
     
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  10. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Murray's 5-1 H2H with Delpo isn't too shabby
     
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  11. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Federer H2H/stats are not important enough for me to research.
     
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  12. Wilander Fan

    Wilander Fan Hall of Fame

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    Nadal has the most impressive H2H over the rest:

    Nadal 47-28
    Nole 31-35
    Fed 30-36
    Murray 18-27

    However, again these numbers are skewed by clay results. Nadal is an astounding 25-4 on clay in his career against the other top 4. Prior Novak's breakthrough last year, Nadal was 25-2 with only Federer managing to beat Nadal.

    Off clay, Nadal is below .500 against the group as a whole and against everyone individually except Murray.

    Basically, this shows that Nadal has been incredibly dominant on clay. Also, this shows that off clay, the head to head within the group has Fed the best (28-24), followed closely by Novak (29-26). Nadal becomes a distant 3rd at 22-24 and Murray still far behind at 18-23.
     
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  13. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    How do the head to heads v each other look if we consider finals only?
     
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  14. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    If only 2 of 4 slams were played on clay. Instead, 2 of the 4 slams are played on hardcourt....
     
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  15. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Maybe that's impressive because it's Murray, but Federer has 10-2 against Delpo which is superior as the sample size is twice as large.
    In terms of most skewed h2h you're probably looking at Fed vs Soderling, Blake, Ferrer, Davydenko, Lopez, Youzhny, Gonzalez.

    But I think the ongoing streak of 7-0 of Djoko vs Nadal is more impressive.
     
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  16. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    I think 16-2 or so against Davydenko is less impressive than 12-0 against Ferrer, because Ferrer is a tough fighter and Davydenko can go on court already lost.
     
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  17. vernonbc

    vernonbc Hall of Fame

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    Exactly. The number aren't skewed in Nadal's favour because of his clay expertise. They are skewed against Rafa because so many matches are played on hard courts, which makes his record all the more impressive.
     
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  18. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    True that. Rafa gets teased for 6 of his 10 slam titles being clay. Imagine what would happen if 2 of the 4 slams were on clay!
     
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  19. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    As I posted on an earlier thread, Federer holds some pretty impressive H2Hs against current players:

    v Roddick 21-2
    v Hewitt 18-8
    v Davydenko 17-2
    v Soderling 16-1
    v Ferrer 12-0
    v Youzhny 12-0
    v Berdych 10-4
    v Del Potro 10-2
    v Tsonga 8-3
    v Fish 7-1
     
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  20. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure I'm impressed with Tsonga and Berdych. Especially the fact that he lost a big Wimbledon match against both hurts him imo. Plus the Olympic match with Berdych of course
     
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  21. Totai

    Totai Professional

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    If 2 of the 4 slams were on clay then there would be many more players on the tour that are clay courters, which could be detrimental to Nadal's chances.

    If the FO was actually an indoor hardcourt, then fed would have multiple CYGS by now ;)
     
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  22. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    If 2 of the 4 slams were on clay, more players would be good at clay, but I seriously doubt any would get the same amount of topspin as Nadal. There were many claycourt specialists in the 1990's but none resembled Nadal's level.

    In your hypothetical of the French Open being an indoor hardcourt, does that mean 3 of the slams are hardcourt, 1 is grass and none are clay?
     
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  23. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Borg > Nadal on clay.
     
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  24. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    You can also add:
    v Lopez 10-0
    v Gonzalez 12-1 (Hasn't quite retired yet)
    v Ljubicic 13-3
    v Blake 10-1
     
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  25. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Yet more evidence. I think Fed must have more impressive H2Hs against current players than anybody else I know!

    Course, he's been practicing longer than most!! :)
     
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  26. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Some notable H2Hs of the other top 4 against the current top 10 (5 and below):

    Djokovic:

    v Berdych 8-1
    v Fish 7-0
    v Del Potro 4-1
    v Tipsarevic 4-1

    Nadal:

    v Ferrer 13-4
    v Berdych 11-3
    v Fish 8-1
    v Del Potro 7-3

    Murray:

    v Tsonga 5-1
    v Del Potro 5-1
     
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  27. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Federer has faired way better against his generation than the others have. Whether that's him being better in peak years or his contemporaries being weaker is up to you.


    What are Fed's h2h's against Robredo (former top 10 as well) and Nieminen as well.

    I don't know about Rafa or Djokovic holding more than a 10-0 advantage over somebody already.
     
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  28. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Better than 10. Nadal leads Verdasco 12-0.
     
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  29. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

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    Nice, I hadn't thought of these two.

    v Nieminen 13-0
    v Robredo 10-0

    Other interesting ones:

    v Safin 10-2
    v Kohlschreiber 6-0
    v Moya 7-0
    v Johansson 7-0
    v Baghdatis 7-1
    v Karlovic 10-1
    v Wawrinka 10-1
    v Haas 10-2
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
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  30. Netzroller

    Netzroller Semi-Pro

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    Good gob, the quesion of the thread was one simple sentence and you still weren't able to understand what the discussion was supossed to be about :lol::lol:

    You must have had a very tough time in school...
    Federer's record against them is actually better. Certainly one worth mentioning here.
     
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  31. joeri888

    joeri888 G.O.A.T.

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    Whats feds record against dasco and almagro?
     
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  32. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    lets not kid ourselves folks,
    The most impressive h2h is 17-9, or whatever it is now

    Rodge h2h against Roddick, or Davy doesnt matter, who cares? They are in quite different league.

    But, as impressive at it is now, it is something history will not care much about. Who cares about Wilander's h2h agaisnt, say, Becker now?? The frequency of their names mentioned is in direct relation to number of majors won.
    Consider Wilander, philipousis(or whatever his name) and a guy named Henman.
     
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  33. monfed

    monfed Guest


    I see your point but the Fed-Nadal H2H has been done to death. Something new for a change, dude ;)
     
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  34. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    Even more impressive is that's against pre injury Delpo plus a Slam win thrown into the pot.

    Wonder what Twatman will have to say about that?
    Ski Ba Bop Ba Dop Bop...
     
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  35. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    I think it is interesting. It is like the M-1000 tournaments, they are not GS tournaments, but they are quite important themselves. It is interesting to know those head-to-head as it is interesting to know that Lendl won 22 M-1000 (Grand Prix Championship Series they were called back then), McEnroe won 19 of them, Connors won 18, Borg won 15, Becker won 13....
     
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  36. stringertom

    stringertom G.O.A.T.

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    Sticking to topic, the most impressive stat I've come up with is Fed's record vs the rest of the ATP field from '04 to present. In that time, almost half of his total losses (36 of seventy-eight) have been to Djokdalray. That means 42 losses outside the current other top 4, or almost exactly an average of 5 per year in a sample size of 8 plus years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
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  37. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    It's skewed against him because the one surface where he's almost unbeatable only has one slam and has less tournaments overall than hardcourt? That's like saying from 2003-2007 the slams were skewed against Federer cos only one slam was on grass and virtually no other tournaments.

    Before you say it, Federer was not unbeatable on hardcourt, he just happened to have 2 of 3 surfaces where he was the best player. The only way you can make excuses for it being skewed against Nadal is if you say that he is the best player on only one surface, in which case surface skew makes no difference, because what we get is odds. If in your prime you are the best player on 2 surfaces you will probably win more than a guy who has one surface where he is the best.

    However nadal's dominance on that surface is so great that it dwarfs anyone else's surface domination.

    However if clay was to take over from hardcourt and have many many tournaments, nadal would suffer more clay defeats because it is a lot easier to pack it into a couple of months than through the whole season. Given the fact you could have different types of clay and conditions as well - nadal has much less advantage in hamburg and Madrid for example (hamburg where Federer beat him and probably should have wn even in 2008 when nadal was playing his best tennis that year) than MC Rome and RG
     
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  38. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    If only three of the slams were still on grass........
     
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  39. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    When most of the H2H meetings are on clay it sure does make a difference. You know damn well if Nadal and Federer played on indoor as many times as they did clay, that you'd say it matters.
     
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  40. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Besides most of the time were played on clay, the age difference also skew the number since Nadal is 5 years apart.

    The same with Davy having a better H2H against Nadal...the number are skewed since most of the time they met on hc.

    Get it now ?
     
    #40
  41. devila

    devila Banned

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    fedboys, you know all too well that clay AND grass court events have bad competition. that's why dimwit roddick won houston clay events and made the wimbledon semi/finals to humiliate himself while federer was still not playing his best. roddick is something useless but it's an insult to call him a name that is sport-related.
    coria had nadal and gaudio down on rome and roland garros clay and collapsed too.

    djoker's impressive because he was more a chameleon and skier than a totally dedicated tennis prodigy a few years ago.
    he doesn't need to be extremely hard working to beat federer, nadal and murray.
    fed, nadal and murray, in contrast, have to be focused and healthy to beat djoker.
     
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  42. purge

    purge Hall of Fame

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    the zeros are obviously the most impressive. fed sports quite alot of those

    i think some combined ones would look rather cruel as well..

    such as nadal vs the all active spaniards

    or fed vs all active german speaking people lol
     
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  43. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Indoor? Tennis is an outdoor sport. The fact they play the World Tour Finals indoors makes no sense as it is. The 4 slams are outdoors and then the top 8 players of the year are supposed to compete indoors? Crazy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012
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  44. billnepill

    billnepill Hall of Fame

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    Tennis Is a sport with various surfaces. For all of them to play similar = slow doesn't make sense at all. Crazy
     
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  45. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Roland Garros was faster in 2011 than it ever was before. Still complaints?
     
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  46. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    odd how the only one who complains about it is you. hmm.

    but then again you've said there should be two clay majors, so I suppose I should just not even listen to you.
     
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  47. billnepill

    billnepill Hall of Fame

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    Yes it was too fast for Djokovic to reach the final and to dethrone nadal as he proved he can do on ALL surfaces
     
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  48. Colin

    Colin Professional

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    Um, no. The presence or absence of a roof neither validates nor negates the intrinsic nature of tennis. It's all about the balls, the net and the lines (like a good Hollywood party, but I digress...)

    Sadly, I must pause and wonder about your insistence that the elements play a supporting role in the affair. How lame is it that you have to admit that your strengths are your forehand and a moderate breeze?

    The WTF is designed in fact to counter the glaring lack of indoor tennis during the Grand Slams. Some — griping endlessly just last year about the inclement weather affecting the U.S. Open schedule — might suggest Slam organizers would be better off putting a roof on it.

    Anyway, perhaps you should go out into your community and survey the goodly transients in your midst. Ask them what's better — four walls and a roof or the "great outdoors"? — and don't try bringing Rafa's name into it because he's too metrosexual; they're obviously fans of Murray for his vagrant-casual ensemble and his "I can only shave in public toilets" grooming habits. In the end, someone who looks like he woke up in a pile of leaves and dog feces has truly earned the right to insist on outdoor play.
     
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  49. BULLZ1LLA2.0

    BULLZ1LLA2.0 Banned

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    Well, it takes more skill to control a ball in heavy winds than to control a ball in tranquil conditions. So I guess if your game is a bit fragile you would prefer indoors.
     
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  50. Colin

    Colin Professional

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    I think there's only one way to settle this, Bully, my friend.

    Fed vs. Nadal, next Category 4 hurricane. (No middling tropical storms, please.)

    While Rafa does have the advantage with his heavy spin, I think it will be nullified by the sustained winds of 140 mph. Fed, on the other hand, will dance around the court, staying perfectly balanced amid the devastating gusts, hitting winners with wild abandon.

    If flooding should ensue, no doubt Fed will walk capriciously upon the water while Rafa cries out, his mouth half-filled with water, cursing uncle Toni for never teaching him to swim — decrying that he would never be a Phelps-style Olympian and that he should instead focus on hitting balls with his left hand.
     
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