Whats your top 10 of all time right now?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 90's Clay, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    The reason is this. I think greats deserve some respect. If someone wrote Federer couldn't play tennis twenty years from year I would defend Federer. It may be opinion but I think past greats deserve respect. Now you can be upset at me for that but I think Federer, Laver, Nadal, Rosewall and guys like that earned it.

    Now you can say I'm wrong in this opinion but that's how I feel.

    Now if someone wrote that Federer would defeat Laver easily I can understand that more than someone writing that Laver played Grandpa type tennis. The term grandpa is not exactly one of respect in this case my friend.
     
  2. fluffyyelloballz

    fluffyyelloballz Rookie

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    [/I]Please don't jump on a poster simply because he disagrees with what seems to be the majority's viewpoint. I don't believe BobbyOne is writing this to incite people but simply to express his opinions. Do you really what another person going with the pack and being afraid to express his or her true feelings about a topic or do you want to see other people's opinions on a topic and see their viewpoints? I much prefer the latter. It's more to me of a learning experience. When you see different viewpoints you may understand things more. I like it when someone disagrees with me and we can have meaningful discussions. And I don't call people a troll when they disagree with me.

    :cool:
    Here, here.
     
  3. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    The poster is playing a victim. No one has issues with saying Laver is GOAT or Tilden is GOAT. His intention is just to rile up Roger fans. That's easy to see through. If you don't think that it's the case, feel free to disagree with my opinion. I mean, you don't need Einstein's brain to see through the anti Federer agenda of kiki, NadalAgassi or BobbyOne.

    You guys all argued with a poster who said that Laver played grandpa Tennis. How come you weren't gracious as to accept that as his opinion?
     
  4. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    Way to shift the goalposts. Before, it was about a person's right to an opinion but upon being rebutted, suddenly you claim it's about respect.
     
  5. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    foramilan90,

    Can you do me a minor favor and not use the term "historian" in such a negative way? I'm not an historian but a person who loves tennis just like I believe you do.

    As far as the statements about Emerson and Gonzalez is concerned, well aren't we here in the Former Player's forum to learn about the past. So shouldn't the people who were there at the time try to help inform people about the status of tennis in the past and how majors in the past aren't the end all? I think most of the posters talking about the Emerson and Gonzalez controversy are trying to explain how Gonzalez wasn't able to play majors and therefore shouldn't be held accountable for have less classic majors than Emerson. So they are trying to let some know how Gonzalez was perhaps the best player in the world for able a decade and clearly one of the top players in the world for around twenty years.

    Let's say twenty years from now someone sees youtube clips of Federer's greatest backhands and that person assumes Federer's backhand was his best groundstroke by far. Wouldn't you try to explain to him that Federer's best groundstroke was actually his forehand just to help him with knowledge of Federer?
     
  6. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Not shifting. That's my thought. I would also defend Federer and Nadal. And I have done so.

    Nice football analogy though. Never heard of that phase but I like it. Think I'll use it in the future.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  7. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    pc1, this is his list!

    He includes longevity, includes Nadal and Djokovic, exclude Federer. Federer is playing at age 31, winning slams. Nadal, Djokovic are way too younger to him. If you still are not able to find the bias, I don't have anything further to say..

    No one has any issue with respectable posters here
     
  8. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    Why should he not be called out on his opinion if people disagree with it? The historians here certainly have no problem with dismissing people with different opinions from them as being younger and all the things that implies.
     
  9. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Do you think I was mean to the guy? If so I wasn't trying to be. I thought I was trying to explain how playing with a wood racquet was. Fine then Laver played Grandpa tennis in his opinion. That's okay.
    :)
     
  10. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Fed I assume isn't a tennis great then according to you, yes?

    Since we all value to right to an opinion (no matter how absurd) here, I can say that personally I'd reckon there's a bigger chance of me seeing purple elephants flying past my bedroom window than you defending Fed on any account whatsoever.

    And prey tell, when have I claimed otherwise? Yes I do think they're deserving of respect.


    Why should be upset at an opinion I completely share, not paying much attention are we?

    Shouldn't we also respect Arche's feeling as well then?

    Can you honestly with a straight face claim that if anyone made a thread/post like that, you and a number of former pro regulards wouldn't argue that poster's opinion? If you honestly believe that then I don't know what to say really.

    Neither is the term weak era, friend.
     
  11. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    I doubt very much you will be able to maintain this standard that you have set for yourself. Of course, you may yet prove me wrong.
     
  12. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Listen we all strive to do our best but I'm as flawed as anyone, probably more so. And of course we all have our biases but I try my best. But I think you're right, I doubt if I can maintain a top standard. I will try however. I probably won't prove you wrong but I do read and try to be flexible.
     
  13. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But why should he do that? Shouldn't he (Forzamilan) respect said person's opinion and appreciate hearing a radically different viewpoint?

    I think it would be really boring if everyone thought Fed's FH was his best shot, a fresh new perspective is always welcome.
     
  14. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Okay Arche3, if your feelings were hurt (and I didn't mean to hurt them by the way) I am sorry.

    And Zagor I have written that if anyone disrespected Federer I would have defended Federer. For the record I believe Federer is clearly an all time great and a top GOAT candidate. I've written that many times.


    The Tilden thread was started because I wanted people to see how truly great Tilden was in tennis. When I started researching some of the all time greats I was disappointed by many former greats records. Some were not even close to the myth however Tilden was. It truly amazed me. The more I read about him the more I realized that the man was probably a tennis genius.
     
  15. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    I never implied you were mean to that guy. In fact, when I saw you reply to him, quoted you and typed, very nice post or something like that. I mean, in the other thread.

    Everyone has biases. I also don't claim to be an angel. We are all carried away by our heroes. However, I don't post JUST for the sake of irritating others. I am sure you will be able to find that since you have been posting here for a very long time
     
  16. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    But isn't there a difference here? The imaginary person here had an opinion that may be incorrect. In this example the person thought Federer's most powerful shot was his backhand and that was the shot that hit the most winners. So don't you want to help him with the knowledge of tennis and about Federer?

    If some wrote that Federer wasn't a great mover I might write that Federer was widely considered to be one of the all time great movers. Is that disrespecting a person or just trying to help a person?
     
  17. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Okay. Thanks Feather.:)
     
  18. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Eh, no there isn't?

    Just as Bobby's level of play/longevity list might seem like complete bulls- sorry, meant to say it might seem poorly thought out and overly biased to some fellow tennis fans.

    Thing is, most baseliners even the ones who are widely recognized to have better BH compared to their FH hit more winners with FH so that's not a very convincing argument.

    It might be that Fed sets up all those easy FH winners with his BH therefore his BH is a more crucial shot.

    No, because if I argued/challenged his opinion that would mean I don't respect his right to have an opinion, I wouldn't want him to feel that his opinion isn't welcome and just as valid as the opinions of the rest of us.

    Even if a person claimed that Coria's serve is better than Goran's, I still wouldn't have the right to disagree with him or make an attempt to teach him anything, for all we know Goran might have been continually facing weak returners of serve throghout his career while Coria was facing best returners of serve of all time which skewed the stats massively in Goran's favour.

    It would be again disrespecting a person, for all we know he might feel that Fed's weak era opponents who moved like whales in slow motion made Fed's movement appear decent while the reality is that he was just a less terrible mover than weak era clowns.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  19. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Okay Zagor. I was under the impression we were trying to learn tennis history in the former player forum so I thought varying opinions were fine. For the record I'm happy if you or other disagree with me so long as we discuss things logically.

    So the bottom line is I appreciate your opinion.
     
  20. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    But we are! Though not just about tennis history but present as well.

    Just today for example I learned that Fed's level of play and longevity aren't impressive in the slightest and that Laver's BH was a glorified grandpa push/slice, those are some serious things to ponder.

    I wouldn't disagree with you cause that would mean I don't respect your opinion or your right to have an opinion.
     
  21. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    You have a sharp sense of humor. (Sounds like something my wife would say.) lol.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  22. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    so you all agree Laver played Grand Pa tennis now right? :)
     
  23. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    No, actually. Zagor was being sarcastic there.
     
  24. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    It was you who mentioned krosero and praised him as the best poster. Thus I must think that you claim he is of he same opinion as you.
     
  25. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Oh no, they did say some "bad" words about the old great players...
     
  26. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    i know......:shock:
     
  27. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    zagor, it seems as though you have overlooked that I rank Federer No. 5 at achievements. Thus I rate him rather high but...
     
  28. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Oh really?

    Of course he was. Zagor actually is pretty funny.

    Truthfully many of my buddies are about as sarcastic as you can get so I'm used to that.
     
  29. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    Um, it most certainly was not me who said that.. It was zagor.

    And has it crossed your mind that he could consider krosero to be the best poster despite not being of the same mind as him?

    Give examples then.

    But what? Sentence seems to be hanging.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  30. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    pc1, Thanks a lot for your support. It does not happen too often for me these days...
     
  31. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Thanks once more. I'm feeling a bit ashamed...
     
  32. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    We aren't obliged to agree with your opinions, you know.
     
  33. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    That's a given of course. Frankly I don't want everyone to agree with my opinions either.
     
  34. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Feather, thanks for your insulting words. I deserve them...

    I'm glad to hear finally that you rank Laver at least as high as Federer.

    I have NOT ranked Nadal and Djokovic because of longevity!!

    You seem to know my soul better than I know it: I don't want to rile Federer fans. They automatically are annoyed when I rank Roger below others...

    Safin, Roddick and Hewitt very strong opponents of Federer??
     
  35. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    "winning slams": to be exact: winning ONE GS tournament...
     
  36. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    I just can't figure you out. As far as Fed fans getting annoyed when placing him below somebody it has to be within reason. That list you made, the 2nd one, is about as unreasonably illogical as a list can get with intent of trying to be legit
     
  37. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    zagor, people can disagree with me and contradict. But why these hateful words?
     
  38. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    Jesus Christ. That post wasn't even directed towards you, it was a response to pc1.
     
  39. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Feather, I'm protesting that you insinuate I would write for the sake of irritating others. That's very mean. You and others just cannot imagine that I really believe what I write and rank. That's not my fault!

    End of the story!
     
  40. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    If it's any comfort, I don't think that your rather interesting list was an attempt at trolling, at least not explicitly.
     
  41. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    For instance "grandpa tennis".

    Sorry I have confused to "friendly" posters.
     
  42. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    I was referring to zagor and Feather. That statement was made by someone else entirely.

    And no need to put friendly in inverted commas. There has been no pretense of it.
     
  43. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    To say it for the 100th time. I of course can stand contradictions to my views. (The same was with nasty Limpinhitter). I just cannot stand nasty words which came from your front without reason! It was your group that answered my rankings and opinions with hate!
     
  44. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    and indirectly toward me...
     
  45. urban

    urban Hall of Fame

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    What's the problem with making a personal list, especially with making comments, that it (the second list) is not based on accomplishments. No need to call the pope for inquisition. There are so many lists and polls here, some reasonable, some not exactly. Maybe the reaction comes, because Bobby One has studied the game very intensely, and his opinion deserves respect.
     
  46. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    What happened to Limp? Havent seen him post here in a while. Say what you want about him, but I thought he wasn't as overly nostalgic as some posters here and was more up to speed with contemp tennis.
     
  47. qindarka

    qindarka Rookie

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    Very well then. Perhaps Feather and forzamilan should not have accused you of trolling. Of course, some of your statements were preposterous, or at least thats how it appeared to them. I would be impressed if you would act with restraint when faced with statements that you consider to be preposterous.
     
  48. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    If I said or insinuated Safin's level of play>Lthat of aver would you respect that opinion and find substance and reason to it?
     
  49. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    I'm glad that you seem to begin to understand my motifs. There just are NO mean motifs!
     
  50. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    urban, Thanks. Your words seem to me like honey...
     

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