Whats your top 10 of all time right now?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 90's Clay, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    joe sch, I would agree. I just would omit the "h" from Novak's name ;-)
     
  2. BlueB

    BlueB Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely. If anything, it should be a "ć".

    But what about Borg 8?

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    The problems with conflating pre-open majors and non-traditional majors with traditional open majors are two fold: (1) pre-open amateur and pro majors are not the equivalent of open majors and, in my view, disrespects, discounts and diminishes the value of winning an open major, and (2) if you are going to do it for Rosewall, then you have to do it for everyone. On that basis, by my estimation, Laver has 36 major titles.

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/did-laver-win-36-majors.562156/
     
  4. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    If we're including amateur and pro majors in this I think the YEC should be included - Borg also has 11 classic majors not 8.
     
  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Then shouldn't the TCC and ALL of the "pro majors," pre-open and open era, be included? What about the 1970 Dunlop International? Wasn't it the defacto AO that year?
     
  6. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    And then Emerson makes the list of leaders.
     
  7. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Erm no? I've already said that I don't think we should lump all these different types of tournaments together as one. My point was that if the standards for major status are so varried and low then the YEC should be included. I don't want to have to explain this again...

    Dunlop should be considered a major though due to the absence of a suitable AO IMO.

    Well I wouldn't include amateur majors at all personally.
     
  8. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Hall of Fame

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    Then you have to deduct those amateur majors from Laver and Rosewall....you cannot have two standards.
     
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  9. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Have you seen me list major counts for any players recently? ;)
     
  10. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I have repeated this several times:

    "The problems with conflating pre-open majors [amateur and pro] and non-traditional majors with traditional open majors are two fold: (1) pre-open amateur and pro majors are not the equivalent of open majors and, in my view, disrespects, discounts and diminishes the value of winning an open major, and (2) if you are going to do it for Rosewall, then you have to do it for everyone. On that basis, by my estimation, Laver has 36 major titles."

    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/did-laver-win-36-majors.562156/

    I don't want to have to explain this again, either!

    So, you have said that they YEC and the Dunlop should be included in the major count. What about the TCC? Wasn't that bigger, more prestigious than any traditional major? It was higher paying than all of the traditional majors combined.
     
  11. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Your first point implies that you don't think counting majors in this way is correct, your second point makes it clear you're doing this primarily as device against Rosewall.

    Seems like I was spot on.

    Answer this instead of copying me...Ignoring what anyone might say of Rosewall's major count, how many majors do you think Laver won? If you say 36 then you are perpetuating the standard as opposed to just applying it.

    Nope. I have said the Dunlop should be in the major count and the YEC in some years is absolutely a major because of the diminished status of the AO. I have only said that every YEC should be in the major count if we're including amateur and pro majors on a one to one basis (with Open Era majors). I believe the YEC is at least equal with the Pro Majors in terms of prestige and value.

    The TCC in 1971 (IIRC) was a huge tournament, I consider that a major as well. I prefer to look at each of these non-traditional tournaments on an individual basis - I don't necessarily include the 1970 TCC as a major. The YEC in some years is absolutely a major because of the diminished status of the AO.
     
  12. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Reading comprehension deficit, indeed. In any event, if you are counting the YEC and the Dunlop, then it logically follows that any event that was determined to be more prestigious than the YEC or Dunlop (if such a thing can be objectively determined), should be included in the total list of majors.
     
  13. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I guess you didn't want to answer my question. Carry on being disingenuous, your stock is falling. At this point I'm not sure if you're dense or just a tool.
     
  14. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    I guess you have no interest in having a reasonable debate. I have no interest in your sarcasm.
     
  15. NatF

    NatF Talk Tennis Guru

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    I've been trying to discuss things reasonably. You refuse to offer anything resembling a debate. I asked your honest opinion on how many majors Laver has - ignoring what anyone might claim about Rosewall - but you didn't answer. You've ignored the holes in your points and have been repeating my quips back at me. Offer something reasonable and logically consistent before trying to take the high road with me.
     
  16. KG1965

    KG1965 Hall of Fame

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    IMHO makes no sense to talk about the majors .
    Even in 2015 the 4 slam have equal importance . Wimbledon > US > RG >> Aus .
    70 in the real majors were maybe 2 !
    Before, they were 3 or 5 or 7 . Boh .
    It makes no sense , I repeat , try 4 majors before 1990 .
    In some years, the Dunlop > slam , to start 70 Dallas > RG , in some years the US Pro Indoor was a major, the master GP 77 >> RG .
    Any WCT 1971 tournament , or Los Angeles South Pacific beginning 70 or 80 years Seiko Super or US Pro to Boston or Washington Star >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a slam amateur
     
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  17. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Limpin, Same standard for Rosewall and Laver: Rosewall 25; Laver 19. You can add Wimbledon '67, Dunlop '70 and TCC '71 for Laver and you get: Rosewall 25 and Laver 22.

    Thought you will learn from your many disproved errors in your Laver list of 36 but you won't...
     
  18. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Limpinhitter; You were not able f.i. to read exactly the Australian Pro titles for Laver and Rosewall (There even were no Australian Pro titles at all in the 1960's; Wikipedia is wrong and you ignored my hint to that!). It's a shame!

    The 1970 TCC was not a big event. The 1971 TCC was a big event but still way under Wimbledon, AO and US Open (and maybe French Open).
     
  19. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    NatF, Reasonable post. As mentioned Limpinhitter made several severe mistakes in his Laver 36 majors list such as counting some "Australian Pro" titles for Laver but no "Australian Pro" title for Rosewall even though the numbers he found were on the same Wikipedia page and on the same championship roll!!! krosero and I have already hinted to that error but Limpinhitter still refuses to correct it. Apart from that there was no Australian Pro in the 1960's at all as Rosewall once assured me. Wikipedia has some wrong data.There were some more errors in his list of 36 majors.

    It's bad to be pro-Rosewall biased but it's at least as bad to be anti-Rosewall biased!
     
  20. joe sch

    joe sch Legend

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    For sure and also give Bjorn his 11 big wins !
     

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