When Fed is aggressive he's unbeatable

Discussion in 'Pro Match Results and Discussion' started by Mick3391, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    WA State
    It's not just me saying this, I've heard many "Experts" say that when Fed mixes it up, chip and charge, serve and volley, play baseline, he confuses these guys and tears them to pieces.

    Saw that with Djokavich in Cincinnati, and today second set he DESTROYED Murray at the net!

    It's my opinion that the baseliners are great baseliners, but can't handle true all court playing, I mean it wasn't even close. When Fed hangs back, it seems to be a matter of "Who makes the most mistakes", but when he takes it to them they get confused, they never know if it's going deep or short, and when Fed is at the net his reflexes and experience take over.

    He's 31, ancient in Tennis years, but when he's aggressive he just shakes up these baseliners, confuses them and takes them out of their game.
     
    #1
  2. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    The 2006 Dubai final says otherwise.
     
    #2
  3. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    Wow, 1 data point from 6.5 years ago really proves your point. Did Federer kill your dog?
     
    #3
  4. Totai

    Totai Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,397
    This court also helps Fed play his ll court game. The lower bounce helps him not get pushed back on his backhand wing, and also he is able to be aggressive with his back hand.
     
    #4
  5. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Ok can we please calm down. Federer was losing that match, lucked out in the tiebreak then Murray played like the mental midget he really is and made 30 UEs to hand Fed an easy victory. Some ****s need to get a grip.
     
    #5
  6. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    17,360
    Location:
    Poland, eating bigos and ┼╝eberka
    Federer was injured.
     
    #6
  7. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,557
    Did you even watch the match? Did you see that amazing rally in the TB?
     
    #7
  8. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Of course I watched it.
     
    #8
  9. Totai

    Totai Professional

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,397
    Fed never loses when he wins, just like nadal.
     
    #9
  10. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,269
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Fed had luck on his side but he played a lot better than yesterday!
     
    #10
  11. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,245
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    30 is the age when the spine loses flexibility and the blood vessels in it start to get "fossilized" with calcium (so the spine essentially starts to die and this process is irreversible until the very death of the human).

    The muscles lose their ability to contract explosively, the brain loses its reaction time, the eyeball muscles begin to degenerate which decreases the ability to track fast-moving objects, the vision itself gets worse, and the stamina is depleted much sooner than during the peak 16-26 age.

    The fact that Federer can still hang on with the young and best players in the world is remarkable. The fact that he even beats them from time to time is a biological anomaly.
     
    #11
  12. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Messages:
    7,269
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    FACT :cool:
     
    #12
  13. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,324
    TB was good. 2nd set Murray collapsed. that 1-1 game was terrible. 3 BH UE's in a row
     
    #13
  14. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    Mustard is a pure troll.
     
    #14
  15. okdude1992

    okdude1992 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,324
    Geez it's not like he is 60. Fed's in great shape for 30, but there are lots of other pros who are still playing well at that age. Look at David Ferrer, playing the best tennis of his life at 30. Tommy Haas is 34, and still top 20!
     
    #15
  16. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    What are you on about now? The 2006 Dubai final was a classic case of "punching yourself out". Federer was over Nadal like a rag doll in the first set, showing a lot of aggression, and looked certain to hit the killer blow in both the second and third sets, but Nadal hung in there and managed to deliver the knockout blows himself. Federer was really annoyed when he lost. Then he calmed down and a nice chat with Nadal at the side of the court as they awaiting the trophy presentations.

    Federer can lose when he's very aggressive. That match proved it. Now please chill out. Federer is doing fantastic in these World Tour Finals, and has a chance to win it for the seventh time tomorrow, which would be remarkable.
     
    #16
  17. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2012
    Messages:
    3,897
    When Karlovic serving 80% first serve he's unbeatable
     
    #17
  18. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    Fed's spine is dying? :confused:
     
    #18
  19. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,957
    i concur with this. :)
     
    #19
  20. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    Come on. "Remarkable" for an achievement like that? If Fed wins tomorrow it would imply a quasi-certainty that we will not see that record surpassed in our lifetimes.
     
    #20
  21. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    We are all dying, slowly. None of us will ever be as young as we are at this very moment, but we will continually get older.
     
    #21
  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2009
    Messages:
    25,114
    Location:
    Cwmbran, Wales
    Didn't people say that about Sampras' 14 majors a decade ago? But yes, it would be hard to believe that someone else could match that for quite some time.
     
    #22
  23. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    It's guaranteed we won't see Fed's YEC mark broken for at least a decade or more.
     
    #23
  24. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.

    Touch├ę. But still.
     
    #24
  25. Agassifan

    Agassifan Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2009
    Messages:
    2,557
    Fed was super aggressive against Berdych in the USO. Didn't work out then.
     
    #25
  26. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    2,786
    I wouldn't be so sure. He needs to get to 8 to totally safeguard it.
     
    #26
  27. The Bawss

    The Bawss Banned

    Joined:
    May 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,829
    Location:
    Lyon, France.
    I don't think Fed will manage 8. Incidentally, I don't see anyone managing 8. Winning 8 WTF titles is akin to dicking on a generation of the best tennis players.
     
    #27
  28. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2007
    Messages:
    4,408
    I think you're getting things backwards. When he's winning comfortably, he's confident enough to chip and charge and serve and volley.

    Unless you mean more generally aggressive from the baseline - but in that case, Federer is always aggressive. When his shots go in, he wins. When they don't, he loses.
     
    #28
  29. ductrung3993

    ductrung3993 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    San Francisco, 94118
    classic Mustard, I choked on my choco chips because of you :lol:
     
    #29
  30. Federer20042006

    Federer20042006 Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    2,173
    30 flat? Not 31? 32? 29.6374372?

    I call BS on this whole thing. If the spine were "starting to die" at 30, nobody would be walking at 90.
     
    #30
  31. ductrung3993

    ductrung3993 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2010
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    San Francisco, 94118
    Please help me press the report button for Bob - our year end TT most offensive user. I know that we all have different opinions and thus argue a lot. But most of us dont reach to the extent of offending others like him - the rudest person on this person on this forum perhaps. Please help TT stays clean everyone. Cheers.
     
    #31
  32. pound cat

    pound cat G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    13,741
    In fact the road to death starts the moment we are born.
     
    #32
  33. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    WA State
    Geeeez! Everyone insulting and beating each other up.

    Any Tennis fans agree that when Fed is aggressive he is unbeatable? I had heard that from experts and I have seen it. I don't care if you love Fed, hate him, hate this poster or that, I'm TALKING TENNIS, anyone care to comment on the question at hand? I don't think I saw one answer.

    It seems Fed keeps them off balance, he mixes it up, takes them out of rythmn, he was awesome at the net, just loved it. It would make sense also, if someones main play is back, they don't get as skilled up close.
     
    #33
  34. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,245
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    Perfect logic. And if I said people stop growing at some age, you would call BS on that too??

    30 is the age when aging truly starts and progresses on all fronts until death. It is the age, for example, when people begin to lose their muscle mass. By age 75, the percentage of muscle mass is typically half of what it was during young adulthood, but it begins around 30.

    If you watch any sport, tennis included, then 30 is the typical retirement age. There are always exceptions, like Agassi or like Haas now, but they are exceptions and those people usually have to work twice as hard just to hang on.

    Remember, it is not "normal life" we are talking about. In normal life people aged 30 are perfectly fine and usually healthy. We are talking about the big sport where human beings "live on the edge" (and often take doping to cross that edge), where everything is a matter of small margins. Even a small degradation in physical abilities can be the difference between top 10 and top 100.

    Ask Davydenko. Ask Youzhny. Ask Roddick. It is hilarious how blind people can pretend to be just to argue about something.
     
    #34
  35. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    Fed is aggressive when his opponent allows him to be. How could he be unbeatable when he lost twice to Delpo recently? (A guy he used to own). Of course he's beatable, more now than ever. Why are Fed fans always so extreme? He's had a fabulous season for his age. It doesn't mean he's unbeatable. Talk about hyperboles.
     
    #35
  36. 10is

    10is Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,451
    Well said! Your assertions have scientific merit. Needless to say I too often facepalm at the level of ignorance, lack of intelligence and often utter naivete that exists amongst the posters here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #36
  37. Mick3391

    Mick3391 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,161
    Location:
    WA State
    Of course I don't mean literally unbeatable.

    That is a good point though, is it Fed being aggressive or his opponent allowing it.

    I just remember these "Experts" saying what I thought, "If Fed plays aggresive he wins against baseliners", that's all:)
     
    #37
  38. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7,490
    Say what? After Fed got the break back in the first set he was the better player > that was ages before the tiebreak came along. He won that without any obvious element of luck imo. He's just a great tiebreak player generally.
     
    #38
  39. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York

    That is definitely how Fed won his match vs Murray today. It doesn't mean it would work every time. He has to be very accurate to manage that, be in the zone. Otherwise, he'll TRY being aggressive but shank a lot of shots.
     
    #39
  40. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    In a way something like 7 WTF or 8 MC titles is less likely to be matched than a load of slams. Just the fact that to win 7 titles is going to take 7 years minimum, and if you lose one year that chance is gone for that year, where as with a slam you could be going for number 15, lose but then you have 3 more chances.

    14 slams was very hard to beat and 17 would be even harder, but no-one will ever get 17 WTF or any single masters event. 10 would be hard enough to do. So with these one a year events, you don't have to have as many as a banchmark for it to be really hard to surpass.
     
    #40
  41. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    Yeah I agree. Federer can have spells of being unplayable but it's hard to do that all the time. I'm mean I've seen even him boss Nadal on clay for a set when he was red lining a couple of times, but below that level he couldn't cope which is why he has never beaten Nadal at RG. Doing that vs nadal on clay is one of the hardest things in tennis though, so I don't even feel bad that he can't anymore.
     
    #41
  42. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    7 or 8 at one title is extremely rare but doable. More than 8 is unchartered territory.
     
    #42
  43. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

    Joined:
    May 17, 2011
    Messages:
    9,571
    Isn't Nadal the only guy to have 8 titles somewhere, or is that 8 in a row? Next year he gets the chance at 9 which is pretty amazing. I don't see 8 masters titles in a row ever being beaten unless nadal does it next year or something really weird happens in tennis.
     
    #43
  44. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    Yeah 8 in a row is Nadal's exclusive. It's really mindboggling when you think of it. Vilas won Buenos Aires 8 times but only over 7 seasons (because it got played twice one year) and I don't think they were consecutive.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
    #44
  45. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,245
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    WTF is harder to dominate than a slam, let along a Masters. If Federer wins the WTF seven times I would rank it higher than his 7 Wimbledons since at no Wimbledon he had to beat 4-5 top 8 players in a row.
     
    #45
  46. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2008
    Messages:
    31,084
    Location:
    New York
    It's not more difficult to dominate than a slam especially now that all the matches are best of 3.
     
    #46
  47. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,245
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    In a slam you do not have to beat 5 best players. Example: USO 2010.

    In the WTF you have to beat them all every single time. 3 sets vs. 5 makes focus and concentration more important than stamina, but does not change the odds.
     
    #47
  48. welcome2petrkordaland

    welcome2petrkordaland Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 16, 2006
    Messages:
    712
    Location:
    Orange County
    "When Fed is aggr... on indoor in 2 out of 3 sets. Fed's weakest shot, the high backhand, can scarcely be exploited on this surface.

    Just to throw another dart at the OP's title, I'd say "Fed is nearly unbeatable on indoor in 2 out of 3 sets." IMHO, Nadal hit the wall physically/emotionally a few years ago (when Fed won in 3 vs. Nadal in the final) after his epic 3-setter with Murray the day before. I know, I know I've started another sour grapes version of Nadal never loses vs. Fed. when he's fresh...

    We'll see what happens tomorrow.

    I do feel Fed indoor is quite dominant (due to aforementioned court conditions which mitigate his vulnerabilities), perhaps a half level under Nadal's clay dominance... which says a lot.
     
    #48
  49. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    USA
    Actually Fed has less problems these days with his backhand on slower surfaces then on faster ones.
     
    #49
  50. Netspirit

    Netspirit Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,245
    Location:
    Snoqualmie, WA
    The indoor hard is what Fed grew up on. Also clay, but he got unlucky to have the clay dude playing in the same era.
     
    #50

Share This Page