When they gona stop players abusing 25 sec rule?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MrAWD, May 26, 2009.

  1. MrAWD

    MrAWD Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    684
    Location:
    Reading, MA
    It is kind of sad that so many of top guys abusing this rule and nobody seem to be doing anything about this! To me either take to rule out if you are not going to enforce it or start taking the points against the abusers!

    What do you think?

    Fedja
     
    #1
  2. They will never stop unless they are given point penalties.
     
    #2
  3. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Another thread on this topic?

    To make it better for you, if you are talking about Roland Garros, the server only gets 20 secs, not 25.
     
    #3
  4. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,070
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    There needs to be a 'shot clock' like in basketball. It would start counting down (from 25 or 20 depending on the tournament rules) as soon as a point ends (ball hits the net, bounces out, or second bounce). If it gets to zero, there should be a buzzer or something, otherwise it would be deactivated as soon as the server strikes the ball to start the next point.

    Initially the umpire could give warnings if the buzzer sounds, but after a few warnings, there should be point penalties. And over time as players get used to this system, maybe even do away with warnings and go straight to loss of point.

    The advantages would be speeding up the game, and establishing a fair and level playing field for all players. Also, this could be exciting for the fans (make the clock easily visible to fans like the basketball shot clock, so there is some added drama if/as it gets close to zero.

    This is all easily done with existing technology - all it would take to implement is the will to do so.
     
    #4
  5. Pancho G

    Pancho G Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2006
    Messages:
    180
    Location:
    Los Angeles, near Pete S.
    I'm sure this has been discussed, but unless you're on the forum every day, the post might get really low.

    I also am disgusted by this. I think Nadal might not be number 1 if he had to play by the rules. In fact, I don't think he would be. Novak would probably also only be top 10.

    I watched Sampras against Rafter recently in a Senior's Match and it was so nice to watch tennis instead of all the preparing to serve time.

    How can our voice be heard!!!
     
    #5
  6. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,863
    I don't think they will ever uniformly enforce the rule. I can see if a player is taking a ton of time AND his opponent is complaining, then maybe. But, otherwise, the refs seems to allow the match to play itself out as is and don't interrupt the flow of the match.

    Late in matches, the opponent never seems to care about the server's extra time because it allows them to rest as well.

    I realize it is an actual rule, but I'm wondering why some TWers obsess about it? If anyone should care it should be the players.
     
    #6
  7. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    20 seconds seems a bit short even for professionals. Why don't they just increase to 30-35 seconds and then really enforce it.
     
    #7
  8. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    Considering how the game is power base lining and not serve and volley the ATP should have looked into this a long time ago and increased the time. But who cares? Especially when Nadal and Djokovic give us the most enthralling, exciting matches on tour!
     
    #8
  9. Serve_Ace

    Serve_Ace Professional

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    992
    Location:
    State College
    Yup. when I want to see butt picking action and medical time out action, it is pretty exciting watch him pick that butt or sit around and moan
     
    #9

  10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4jUGufaJek
     
    #10
  11. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Would be even more exciting if they didn't cheat, no?
     
    #11
  12. Serve_Ace

    Serve_Ace Professional

    Joined:
    May 10, 2008
    Messages:
    992
    Location:
    State College
    #12
  13. sh@de

    sh@de Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    URGH nasty vid Serendipitous :p. I think players should stop taking too much time as well, but saying that Nadal and Djokovic wouldn't be where they are if they took less time in between points is a bit far fetched...
     
    #13
  14. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    I'll take your version of "cheating" over an insensitive, cruel blowhard any day.
     
    #14
  15. Nadal_Freak

    Nadal_Freak Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Messages:
    10,625
    Location:
    Harker Heights, Texas
    When will people stop whining about this rule? It is not meant to be strictly enforced but a boundary to what a reasonable time is.
     
    #15
  16. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    [​IMG]
     
    #16
  17. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    But why put cheating in quotes? Call it what it is. Breaking the rules and getting away with it. Facts are facts, you can't always lead with irrational emotion as a platform for your views.
     
    #17
  18. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    A rule by definition is supposed to be enforced.
     
    #18
  19. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,745
    Location:
    in my room
    #19
  20. msc886

    msc886 Professional

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Messages:
    961
    When are people gonna stop whining about Federer's arrogance?
     
    #20
  21. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    I'm gonna guess....never.
     
    #21
  22. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    I think these graphics are goofy. I'm always trying to see the humor in them.

    But, I don't. These and the owned, and pwned posts seem so silly to me. But, thanks anyway.
     
    #22
  23. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Yes, but constantly calling Federer arrogant, a liar, a blowhard, a whiner among other things isn't?
     
    #23
  24. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    Cause it's a poor excuse for cheating if you ask me. I think many Fed Fans are hurt because their boy isn't #1 anymore, just came out of a slump, and is being challenged by Nadal, Murray, and Djokovic. I think the fact that Federer just won over Nadal has brought about a lot of trollish behaviour from fanboys, those are the facts.

    Irrational emotion? Care to produce a sample? Lol!
     
    #24
  25. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    And your fanboys constantly calling Nadal a cheater, a topspin monkey with an ugly game is ok? It's so funny how you guys come a-running when someone says something about Federer, but you have a bona fide roasting when someone says something negative about Nadal. Those threads go on forever.

    I can take it. Can you?
     
    #25
  26. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    No such thing as an excuse for cheating. It either is cheating or is not. There is a rule. It is broken without penalty. Do you not agree this is cheating? Give your answer on the facts, not your feelings or support for Nadal. And why does trollish behavior concern you from any of the camps? That you mention it shows it bothers you and really says more about you than the trolls.
     
    #26
  27. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Your inability to see it as cheating is a perfect example.:) Try a little more introspection.
     
    #27
  28. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Show me one post where I've called a Nadal a topspin monkey with an ugly game. He breaks the rules all the time, that's a fact, and it's cheating. But I'm not going to diss his style of play simply because he wins with it.
     
    #28
  29. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,863
    Technically, don't they need to post or call the actual time for the players to be affirmatively cheating.

    Obviously, if a player is taking a minute between points, we can safely assume that he or she knows they are over the time limit.

    But, if he or she is taking 30 or 35 seconds, without being notified that they are over the 25 seconds, is that really "cheating?"

    As cynical as it may sound, I think it is more up to the refs to enforce the rule than the players to dutifully follow it if they are not being called on it.
     
    #29
  30. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,708
    The facts are as follows -

    1. There is a 20s time limit rule (as well as playing to the server's pace when receiving)
    2. Some players, like Nadal and Djoker, regularly abuse it. Amongst other rules like the medical timeout.
    3. Yes, abuse is the right word.
    4. The officials are too scared to enforce the rule beyond the token warning once every 15 years. As Mats would say, they lack the ba*ls.
    5. Players who don't abuse the rules and play within time limits, like Roddick, Fed and many others, are at a disadvantage.

    You can now resume your regularly scheduled twisted interpretation of rules and the irrational defense of cheating.
     
    #30
  31. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Yes I agree with you, it should be up to the refs. Problem is how is a ref going to say this to the top players in the world? Moreover, it is cheating from the perspective that it cheats the players that are not taking the extra time. And noticing 35 seconds when the limit is 20 seconds (in the FO), is pretty easy for most.
     
    #31
  32. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    The point is that when a point is over you are simply meant to collect two balls and serve. Players like Rafa spend a great deal of time doing irrelevant things, such as carefully examining the balls to get the fluffiest ones, picking pants, cleaning line, bouncing the ball loads of times, standing there "concentrating" for a prolonged period of time and so on.

    Compare that to players like Federer and Roddick who do exactly as they are supposed to. Collect two balls and serve, no messing around, no time wasting, just getting on with playing.

    Before the Madrid final when Federer was asked about Nadal's 4 hour epic with Djokovic, he replied "yeah but these guys take a long time between points" or words to that effect.

    I actually did a rough calculation, the Nadal Djokovic match lasted 243 minutes, during which they played 245 points and had 14, 90 second change of ends. If both players averaged around 30 seconds between points, that means they spent a total of rougly 90-100 minutes actually playing tennis. So that means that for 2/3 of the match they were basically standing around or sitting around doing nothing.
     
    #32
  33. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,708
    Technically, yes. You could even saw that players who break the rule deliberately, knowing that its never enforced, are smarter than those who follow it. And believe me, if someone takes an avg of 30s, they know.

    Ethically, I think this disregard for rules is shameful.

    Let me make a massive exaggeration here - its a bit like murdering your neighbor to steal her cookies because your country is experiencing mass genocide and you know there's no police.
     
    #33
  34. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    Time lengths of matches are essentially meaningless without rules being consistently enforced. Might as well be using different definitions of time for each match
     
    #34
  35. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    8,863
    I agree with you. Most players probably know when they are 15 seconds over. But, I believe there are probably a lot of innocent 5-10 second violations and probably a few geuine violations a couple of seconds longer.

    I agree with the earlier poster who said increase the limit to 30 seconds and enforce it strictly.

    I just don't believe that stalling players will ever do it on their own. Let's face it, a lot of people tend to do as much as they can get away with.
     
    #35
  36. Defcon

    Defcon Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    3,708
    Exactly. Which is why all the 'tired' arguments are well. a bit tired.
     
    #36
  37. bruce38

    bruce38 Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,850
    That earlier poster was also me :). But I think we all agree, either the rules have to change or they have to be enforced. Can't leave something like this up to the players. Moreover we shouldn't blame all of the players for what a few notable examples are getting away with. That they are the cream of the crop players doing this is however, a bit disconcerting.
     
    #37
  38. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    My post said your fanboys.

    But, I don't see you running around chastising them.

    So, if you can look the other way with all the abuse that goes on on this board, well...

    And what do you really care what I think about Federer anyway?
     
    #38
  39. sh@de

    sh@de Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2009
    Messages:
    2,979
    I agree with the truth.
     
    #39
  40. Docalex007

    Docalex007 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,660
    Location:
    London/Berlin
    Matches would go by much more quickly if everyone served at the pace of James Blake.

    Yesterday... the guy literally took 10 seconds between points. Never that quick of a pace before.
     
    #40
  41. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    The better question is when will this "rule" be applied to the entire tour? Why the singling out of Nadal and Djokovic? Many people take their time choosing the right ball (Pete was notorious for this). I don't recall anyone ever accusing him of cheating.

    Wish I had time to sit and clock every player on tour, but sadly I don't.
     
    #41
  42. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    Mostly because threads involving Nadal don't interest me all that much. I don't particularly care what you think about Federer, but give credit where credit is due, the man is an awesome tennis player.
     
    #42
  43. gj011

    gj011 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,548
    Location:
    Back from prison
    Just to say that Federer constantly abuses injury timeouts. (AO 2008 vs Tipsarevic, TMC 2008 vs Murray, ...).

    One of the worst cheaters in that regard. He would have lost the match against Tipsarevic if he didn't take an injury timeout to clip his nails :shock: after falling back 1 sets to 2, and running around the court like a rabbit after. He clearly abused that timeout to break Tipsarevic's momentum. Simply appalling.

    Not to mention the other incidents.
     
    #43
  44. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    I think the answer to that is obvious, they are number 1 and 4 in the world, they set an example for the rest of the tour. But you are absoloutely right, the rules apply to every player on tour, not just two.
     
    #44
  45. ninman

    ninman Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2007
    Messages:
    3,898
    I should've saved this for you.

    [​IMG]
     
    #45
  46. volleynets

    volleynets Professional

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,274
    Location:
    CA
    Federer doesn't do this in every single match though. Nadal typically does this many times during every match and that is the truth. You listed only two examples per last year. Anyone could list 20-30 examples per Nadal match. People would quit whining about this if Nadal didn't do it.
     
    #46
  47. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Messages:
    5,037
    Location:
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Wait...Wait...Hold up. A DJOKOVIC fan is getting on Fed for abusing injury timeouts?

    Your ridiculousness knows no bounds.
     
    #47
  48. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2007
    Messages:
    15,821
    Location:
    VA Beach
    I guess we all know what gj stands for...GREAT JOB!!! not

    And I guess the 011 is your IQ. Now it makes perfect sense. Talk about trolling. Calling Federer a cheater is the ultimate in trolling. And yet you say I don't know what cheating is in another thread. Talk about hypocracy.
     
    #48
  49. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    If you don't care what I think about Federer why are you posting to me with a list of things I 've said about Federer? (This is where I need one of those FAIL graphics, if I was the type of person to use them).

    Give credit where credit is due? He's an awesome player?

    That's your opinion. I don't have to share it.

    Do you even see what you're saying?

    Paraphrases:

    1. You say mean things about Federer.
    2. But, I don't care what you think.
    3. Give Federer credit, he's an awesome tennis player (why do I have to give him credit? I don't even like him. Roddick may be a great server, but I don't like him either.) Is that a crime?

    Regardles of who I'm a fan of, I would never try to chastise another poster because they don't agree with me, or see things my way. This is an opinion board, everyone is entitled to differ with your views.
     
    #49
  50. TheTruth

    TheTruth G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,671
    Well, we'll have to respectfully disagree on this one (and I do respect you as a poster), but counting seconds is beyond trivial to me. I can't get into that mindset at all. Thank God!
     
    #50

Share This Page