When you know your shot was out, but your opponent calls it in

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by lethalphorce, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. lethalphorce

    lethalphorce New User

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    Do you ever say anything? I'm not really talking about baseline stuff. . . more like DTL shots that you have a better view of. I will usually say that I saw it land out, but if I think about it, I've never had anyone do the same for me.
     
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  2. Xisbum

    Xisbum Semi-Pro

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    If I have a clear, unobstructed look at where the ball lands, I do what you do - overrule the other guy, even if he doesn't ask. It's the sportsmanship way to handle it. :)
     
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  3. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    The object is to get all the lines called correctly. If you are sure the ball is out but your opponent does not call it out, you should tell him/her that you definitely saw it out. If you are not sure, then leave the call to your opponent.
     
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  4. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    I'll say I saw it go wide and that it was out, BUT I have had an opponent overrule me and said he thought it was in.

    You can tell the opponent what you saw, but it's the opponent's call in the end.

    In my experience, I have had a few opponents tell me their shot was out, but I think in competition, most players tend to stay quiet and let you make the call.
     
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  5. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i would tell him i saw it out.
    i like to win but being fair is more important to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2009
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  6. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

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    I always call it out if I see it clearly out, and I've had many guys do the same for me. Doesn't matter whether it's a "friendly" or compeitive. I do have one regular weekly opponent who will never accept my out calls, no matter how clearly I see it out. Against him I just hit my next shot into the net, and we start off even after that.
     
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  7. Ripper014

    Ripper014 Hall of Fame

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    I play with a lot of players that call what I would say are tight line calls. If I am playing singles it is accepted that we make the calls on our side of the court. If I see my shot out I will point and call it immediately usually, before my opponent.

    When playing doubles there are occassions where my partner will make a bad call and I will correct him right away.

    I used to do the same when I was playing in tournaments... and if I thought my opponent was blatantly cheating I would call the his next shot out even if it was dead center in the service box. If this did not correct things then obviously I would request a linesperson.

    But if we are talking about casual play, does it really matter...? I will give up the point if they feel it was in. It is not like we are playing for anything other than a little exercise and fun.
     
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  8. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    I call it out. That's what The Code and common sense tell you to do. But I agree, I've rarely had other people over-rule me when I give them the benefit of the doubt on a DTL shot. I'm not insisting that it's good, it's just that sometimes I'm not sure so I call it in. I'd hope that they'd tell me it's out if they had a better view, but often they walk away with a smirk on their face and take the point.

    Once a pro joined us to complete our foursome. He hit DTL and I was 90% sure it was out, but gave him the point 'cause I wasn't absolutely sure. He hesitated and I asked if he had a better view and wanted to over-rule. He said that he couldn't, because it was my call. :rolleyes: I was disappointed in him as he should know the rules and set a good example for the other players. I wondered, "Am I the only one who ever over-rules an opponent to give him the point." Apparently I'm not. Good to see by this thread that I'm not alone.
     
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  9. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    Never cheat or you are an absolute chode.
     
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  10. innoVAShaun

    innoVAShaun Hall of Fame

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    I've seen this reverse cheating in a tournament before. It was a Level 9 UTRP Singles tournament so there's no age or gender discrimination. The kid kept calling the older guy's shots out. So the older gentleman started to call all of the kid's shots in. The kid caught on and eventually started to make better calls. The older gentleman won BTW.
     
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  11. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    Overrule him?? I've never been overruled while calling a line on my side. That's stupid. Only an official can do that.
     
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  12. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    According to the Code, you are required to call your own shots out when you clearly see them as out. I've done it, I've had opponents that have done it, and clearly many players here have as well.
     
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  13. caelia

    caelia New User

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    I think in friendly games most of us would just overrule the call but such thing is not easy to be seen in pros game unfortunately.
     
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  14. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    My attitude about line calls has changed since HawkEye. Shots that I could have sworn were out by a mile are actually 2% in.

    I would call my shot "out" if and only if, I can see a patch of court between the ball and the line.
     
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  15. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

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    ^^ thats how the linesman are taught. To only call it if there is a gap between the ball and the line
     
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  16. Kenny022593

    Kenny022593 Professional

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    First time i have ever seen someone use the word Chode on the boards. I LOLed
     
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  17. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    If its very obvious, I'll tell them it was out. If I'm not sure, I'll say nothing.
     
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  18. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    Same here.

    It sucks that sometimes when you correct the other player they INSIST that they are right and it was actually in, because after all you're questioning their ability to make a call.

    If they really aren't too sure and they are giving me the point based on their lack of seeing it, then I dont mind correcting them. Especially in cases where they clearly didnt even see it at all like if it gets lobbed clear over their heads and they dont turn around in time.

    But when they are making what they think is a clear call sometimes it's tough overruling them even though Im giving them the point.
     
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  19. li0scc0

    li0scc0 Hall of Fame

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    Actually it has been used...

    3 times in 2009
    1 time in 2008
    1 time in 2007
    4 times in 2006 (big year!)
    2 times in 2005

    I searched, I too was wondering... :)
     
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  20. split-step

    split-step Professional

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    It is my opponent's responsibility to call balls on his side.
    If I think the ball was out and he calls it in, it's his call.

    I don't overrule people's calls. They will think you are being patronising.
     
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  21. BajeDuane

    BajeDuane New User

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    lol interestingly enough, if it is a shot in a rally that I can clearly see it is out, I would let my opponent know it was out. On a serve, I keep playing, lol
     
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  22. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    Another vote to do the right thing and call your ball out if you see that it's clearly out.
     
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  23. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    As Steady Eddy mentioned, it is in the Code to try and get the calls correct.
     
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  24. SlapChop

    SlapChop Semi-Pro

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    I don't ever question the other persons judgment. This comes after watching many matches where you can clearly see where the ball lands and the other player says something like are you sure. After watching that I know that from across the court you do not have near close enough view to make the call. I would think it would be rude to overrule someones judgment whether it is for or against you.
     
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  25. bigNC

    bigNC New User

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    Call 'em

    Call them like I see them. Whether to my detriment or benefit. It's just a little integrity thing....
     
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  26. lethalphorce

    lethalphorce New User

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    You actually think it would be rude?
    It's one thing if you both have a very good view of the shot. . . but if you have a good look at it & your opponent is on the other side of the court, it seems to me to be the most sportsmanlike thing to do.
     
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  27. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    The most common example is when you hit a shot that your opponent struggles to reach. Because they are running and focusing on making their next shot, they can't really focus on where it bounces. Therefore, because they are a good sportsman, they give you the benefit of the doubt.

    Now if you are standing near that same sideline, you can have a clear view of where it landed. It is perfectly reasonable if you see it clearly (more than a couple of inches) land out to stop, concede the point, and say "my shot was out". Heck, they probably thought it was out too but weren't sure enough to call it.

    I have never been offended when someone did that for me - in fact I thank them.
     
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  28. Lefty5

    Lefty5 Hall of Fame

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    What is super lame is when the server thinks his serve is out and stops playing. Then they get mad when you don't call the ball out. Since he stops play he thinks he gets a second serve.... As the returner sometimes it tough to call a hard flat 1st serve out when it skids for 5 inches across the line...
     
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  29. split-step

    split-step Professional

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    Exactly why you defer to your opponents call on their side of the court.
     
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  30. Annika

    Annika Semi-Pro

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    Only thing you can do if you think you are frequently getting bad calls, which happened to me last week, is start to calling her ball out. Sorry, but there's no other way to handle it.
     
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  31. PatrickB

    PatrickB Rookie

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    The "way to handle it" is to not play the people again if its a friendly match, to get an umpire if it's a refereed match, or to have the captains select people to watch lines if it's an unofficiated league match.

    Retaliatory calls are explicitly against the rules and a codeable offense (see Table 12 in A Friend At Court).
     
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  32. jazzyfunkybluesy

    jazzyfunkybluesy Banned

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    I agree I avoid cheaters and wont waste time playing with them.
     
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  33. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Played a match last night. Opponent hit a second serve. I thought it was too close to call and played it. He thought it was out and didn't play it.

    I told him I thought it was in and too close to call. I told him to play a let. He refused and gave me the point anyway. I told him a few times that I thought it was in and that he should play a let, but he refused.

    He was a really good sport and we had a great match.
     
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  34. Daveyo

    Daveyo New User

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    I agree 100%, even on my serve when I swore it was out my opponent and friends watching said it was in. This happens a lot, the eye can play tricks on you, only if its obviously out I'll make the call. If my opponent wants to replay the point no problem, btw anything close is always in thats the way we play and its worked out great.
     
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  35. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

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    I hit a running forehand in a mixed doubles match last week from the deuce court, and after the deuce court player returned my shot, her partner, who had a good look at my shot, said, "Sorry, mine was out", so we stopped play. His partner pitched a fit, yelling "you can't do that!", and when they were getting ready for the next point, she said quietly to him "Don't you EVER f*&%ing do that again!" I felt terrible for the guy. I figured she wasn't used to him, but I looked on Tennislink and they play together (and win) all of the time.


    At least in mixed doubles, I'm not sure if calling your own shot out is a good proposition :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2009
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  36. jk175d

    jk175d Semi-Pro

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    That's how to handle it. It's as simple as that IMO. The more challenging issue is when you clearly see your shot in but your opponent calls it out :)
     
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  37. 86golf

    86golf Semi-Pro

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    I chuckled when I first read this, and after I thought about it realized--
    Actually, you still owe him one point. If you were returning at love-love, hit dtl and miss the score should be 15-0, so to get back even, you need to dump the next two points to make the score 30-15.
     
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  38. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    It has happened to me, particularly on DTL passes or volleys. I don't want the point if I did not actually earn it. This is a good problem because I think it means we're playing someone who is generous with calls and we ourselves are fair about it.

    I have hit also hit serves I felt were long or wide, but the opponent just plays them. On a first serve, you cannot overrule them. Only on a second, which has never happened to me, a] because that line is harder to call from my end, and b] I don't want to call myself on a dbl fault unless I'm totally sure and that type of ball has never been called in anyway, LOL!

    I've never played with a full crew of linesmen, but the matches I've played with a chair umpire (or an official at the netpost) who only either confirms or overrules calls.... sometimes I've had to call one against myself. It's only right, and I think even though it can come off as insulting or condescending if you're the one in the lead, it's right. But generally you just go with the officials. Mistakes will happen, but you've just got to trust that things even out.

    I've called a 'not-up' against myself. I really do believe that's a call best made by the hitter. It's so hard to see....you often just have to feel it. I've been called on a 'not-up' but I argued it because I felt it was legit. This, to me, is the most complex one. Kind of like when you graze a ball with your frame while it is on its way out. The opponent can't feel it like you can. This has happened to me in dubs. I should've just hit the volley!

    Back in college tennis, before the playing of lets, I remember hitting a LOT of aces and having them called lets. Never called one against myself because I don't think you're allowed to, are you?

    Anyway, cheers to honest tennis players in a primarily self-officiated sport!

    [You know what would be funny is if someone called a footfault against himself, haaha]
     
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  39. JavierLW

    JavierLW Hall of Fame

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    That's going way over the line. You just have to accept that most people are not doing it on purpose or with intent to cheat you, they are just using bad judgment.

    But to purposely cheat just because of it is a lot worse. It means you cant handle yourself. (and you're not "teaching them a lesson" anyway because like I said, most of the time they arent doing it on purpose in their mind you will be the cheater, not them.....)
     
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  40. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

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    1) What's a "not-up" call?

    2) Anyone on the court can call a Let on a serve.
     
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  41. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Not up means when your opponent hits a dropshot and you get it on the second bounce instead of the first.
     
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  42. Geezer Guy

    Geezer Guy Hall of Fame

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    Thanks. I'll call that sometime and see if anyone knows what I'm talking about.
     
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  43. slice bh compliment

    slice bh compliment G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, when a chair umpire calls it, he says 'not up' instead of 'double bounce'. 'Not up' is also used by people who played in the 70s or have read the USTA rulebook, which uses the more formal expression 'not up'. Oh, and guys who've done official/linesman training.
     
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