When Your Doubles Partner Makes a Bad Line Call

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by tennistim, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. tennistim

    tennistim New User

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    Happened to me last night. My partner called a ball out that was in. It was a big point in a tie-breaker and I wish I had said something straight away. In fact nobody said anything, but I think we all knew that it was in. It threw my concentration and we lost the tie-break.

    Then in the next set the opposition got revenge by calling out some of my serves that were in.

    Really ruins the spirit of the game when this happens.

    I am just trying to figure out how to avoid this happening again. I think I need to overrule my partners bad calls straight away - no discussion. Otherwise it creates a much bigger problem....
     
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  2. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    You need to pull him aside, tell him the call was definitely wrong, and give hiim the opportunity to reverse it himself first. If he still refuses, then change it yourself. Don't cheat.
     
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  3. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

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    I've got a partner that makes bad calls from time to time. I let them go for a while, now I overrule. He used to argue with me about them, now he just goes with my overrule. You can't let that stuff go.
     
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  4. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Usually when this happens your opponents will give you a look or say something to indicate it was a bad call. At that point just look at your partner and tell him "thought it was in" if he still insists it was out, just say "okay" and go with her/his call. A reasonable person will usually agree with you and change the call. Replaying the point is usually not a good idea as it just adds insult to injury, depending on who wins the point. At least you've spoken up, without disrupting you're partner
     
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  5. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

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    Once you say that- the point automatically goes to the other team. To still take the point after that is cheating.
     
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  6. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    That's why you say "I thought it was in" it's quite possible that you're partner is right and you're wrong. So, if he still insists he's right maybe he had a better look at the ball. I'm also assuming that no one is trying to cheat, it's just two different looks at a ball. If the call is changed immediately and your partner doesn't agree, you've then accused (at least tacitly) him/her of cheating, not good for you and your partner. If you're partner willingly changes it to an "in" call then all should be fine.
     
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  7. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    You must give the point to your opponent. Always. Period.
     
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  8. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    If it was clearly in and you had a good sight line, you should have overruled immediately. If your partner gets mad at you for it, you should play out the match then find another doubles partner.

    Last thing you want for yourself is to develop a reputation for hooking, even if it's only by association.
     
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  9. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Okay, I stand corrected. The opposing team gets the point, okay!
     
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  10. Mauvaise

    Mauvaise Rookie

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    Exactly. I've overruled my partners and had them overrule me and no one (thankfully) has ever got in a tizzy over it.

    It probably helps that I make a point before the match starts (if I'm with a new partner) of specifically telling them I want them to overrule any bad calls I happen to make and I'll do the same.
     
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  11. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Just say "no, I think it was in." Other team gets the point.
     
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  12. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    if ur partner hooks, find a new partner

    but u dont ever, ever overrule ur partner. u dont break solidarity mid match
     
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  13. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    I disagree. I'd want someone to overrule me and I'd expect my partner to want to be overruled.
     
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  14. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Ridiculous. Your reputation carries forward beyond the match; when your partner hooks, "solidarity" becomes irrelevant.
     
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  15. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    if ur partner is honestly mistaken then tell him n let him correct his own call

    if he is deliberately hookin u dont break rank. u tell him in private it aint on, and if he doesnt stop hooking then u simply dont play with him any more

    itt: tennis players dont understand team sport
     
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  16. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    ITT: TeflonTom cares more about winning than the integrity of the game and expects everyone to play the same way he does.

    No one on my team plays that way, and I don't play that way.
     
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  17. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    wrong. i dont give a crap about winnin compared to integrity of the game. i dont hook and i dont play with ppl who hook

    good teams solve their disagreements in the locker room. period. u are showing urself up as a poor team player if u disagree with a teammate durin a match in front of ur opponents

    when lookin 4 potential partners i will not hold it against someone if they have had the misfortune 2 be paired with a hooker in the past. i will hold it against someone if they dont understand what bein a team player means
     
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  18. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    It's clear you value your relationship with your partner more than the integrity of the game. Interesting choice; I hope I never play against or with you.
     
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  19. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Yes, by the player who has double-vision. I made a "bad" call in favor of my opponents yesterday. The serve was one inch out, it was so close and it was meaningless (to me) practice-rec tennis. I apologized to my partner and said I couldn't get the words out fast enough, but in reality I just didn't want to make a call that close--I SHOULD HAVE!--but I chickened out. The ass-hat server--and trust me, he IS an ass-hat, I know from decades of playing with him, (thankfully not too regularly), had the chutzpah to say it looked way in to him--right--to him standing "78" feet away. The ball left a mark that I circled. The code says everyone is supposed to help with the calls, even the opponents. You know your NOT playing with friends or fair people when they don't help with a call that you KNOW they had a good look at down the line.
     
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  20. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    no. i value my reputation as a team player. i couldnt give a ***** about a partner who hooks, but i dont want my future partners 2 think i am the kind o person who may suddenly decide not 2 have his back in the middle of a match if it doesnt suit me

    integrity o the game has nothin 2 do with it. i aint the one hooking. my partner is a big boy and he can take responsibility 4 his own antics
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
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  21. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    I don't want anyone to "have my back" by not correcting a bad call on the court.

    You seem to think that keeping your mouth shut is in some way defending your partner. That's silly. You're not an LG keeping a blitzing safety from leveling your quarterback. You're playing tennis. Getting the call right is much more important than false, silly notions of "having your parnter's back."
     
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  22. dblsonly

    dblsonly New User

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    TeflonTom, when you knowingly allow an incorrect call to stand, you are the one hooking! You just don't like to be told this. You are every bit as much a cheater as the person who made the initial wrong call. You can take responsibility for your partners actions by making the right call. Very simply, you are a cheater yourself.
     
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  23. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    see, tennis players dont understand team sport

    team trust is sacrosanct. breaking with ur partner mid-competition destroys trust. and it destroys ur reputation as a team player

    havin a blue with ur partner on court isnt gonna stop him hooking. but it is gonna stop ppl trusting u as a team player. suddenly u are that guy who sells out his partner whenever he disagrees with him

    i am all for respectin the integrity o the game but there are ways u do these things and ways u dont
     
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  24. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    no, i am not the one hooking. WE are the ones hooking. there is no i in team, as the adage says

    this is my whole point. u are a team. u stand together, and u fall together. u act as one unit, in concert. it is the fundamental rule of team sport

    if my teammate hooks, he is an agent of our team in doin so. and we will deal with it as a team. not by fallin apart on court

    u guys need 2 play some team sports
     
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  25. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    You're right, I'm signing up for the Davis Cup. Thankfully there'll be linesmen and umpires to keep me and Mike from being at odds with each other.
     
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  26. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Wow. Honest question: Just wow.
     
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  27. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    like i said, tennis players: no conceptual understandin of 'team'
     
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  28. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    I was trying to think of something to ask him, but words failed me.
     
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  29. TennisDawg

    TennisDawg Semi-Pro

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    Partners’ disagreement on calls. If one partner calls the ball out and the
    other partner sees the ball good, the ball is good. It is more important to give
    opponents the benefit of the doubt than to avoid possibly hurting a partner’s
    feelings. The tactful way to achieve the desired result is to tell a partner quietly of
    the mistake and then let the partner concede the point.


    The above is from rule 14 of USTA Rule book, which begrudgeonly I read from time to time. The only thing I would add to this is if your partner has a better angle to see the ball, then let him make the call and stand by him. "Mum is the word" This is assuming that he is being honest and not trying to hook anyone.
     
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  30. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Thanks for pulling this up. Of course there's a difference between not seeing a call and knowingly letting your partner cheat, as Teflon would do.
     
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  31. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Basketball, football, baseball, Davis Cup "team sports"--rec tennis, nah--no one's paying me to continue playing with a cheater. In delicate social situations sometimes you can dump a give back point into the net or the fence to even out the score. But, if I'm playing with a blind guy or an obvious cheater, I'm not his team-mate for long and I don't care who in the tennis universe knows it and doesn't invite me onto their "team" because I'm not a "team player cheating condoner enabler"--I guess I'll just find an honest wall or garage door to play with.
     
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  32. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    sigh. not bout lettin ur partner cheat. if u are a good team player u are not an independent agent. the bond of the team precludes it

    usta rules r irrelevant. of course they r gonna say that. but a team cant function if they dont stick together

    by all means, trash a cheater, refuse 2 play with him. but dont do it on the court. teams solve problems in locker rooms
     
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  33. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    I think it is interesting that there are so many people who haven't put teflon in their ignore list yet. I have a feeling he'll be dropped into a few more after this thread though.
     
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  34. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    It's just that simple. Hooking for "the team" is still hooking.
     
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  35. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    its amusin how ppl like this guy use ignore lists 2 create their own reality where they dont have 2 deal with ppl who disagree with them
     
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  36. goober

    goober Legend

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    Having someone's back does not extend to cheating. I back my partner on close calls or calls which I didn't have a good angle or look at the line. But if I saw a ball 100% definitely in I am calling it in even if my partner calls it out. If he has a problem with that he can leave the team. So far I have never had anyone have a problem with that.

    Alot of rec players have played team sports growing up and only take up tennis as adults. So I don't know what you are going on about. I only have 1-2 players on my team that played exclusively tennis growing up. Everybody else mostly played baseball, basketball, football and the mainstream team sports.
     
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  37. TeflonTom

    TeflonTom Banned

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    kids sports aint real sports

    u dont have 2 support ur partner cheating but u dont burn him on court. his decisions are ur decisions when u are competing, that is part and parcel of bein a team member. u deal with that stuff in the locker room
     
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  38. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    Well now we've identified your problem.

    You see a line call correction as a "burn" or attack.
     
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  39. jonnythan

    jonnythan Professional

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    One of the guys in my league is a former NHL player. I'd think he has a more refined concept of what "team" means than you do.

    I've seen him overrule his partner on a line call.

    So, there goes your bravado and superiority.
     
    #39
  40. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    If you don't "burn him" on the court, you're supporting his cheating. Welcome to tennis.
     
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  41. texacali

    texacali Rookie

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    I never really made a big deal of close ones and more than likely gave benefit of the doubt to my opponent. Now I am in a league and I guess line calls are much more important. I have had to tighten up my line calls but it's such a weird balance of perceived hooking and not screwing yourself or your partner.
     
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  42. goober

    goober Legend

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    lol @ Mr. Big time sports guy. What pro team did you play for again?

    BTW- my team has former minor league baseball, college football, college soccer, college hockey players and the rest high school varsity level. You don't have to play on the pro level to understand team sports.

    If he is cheating I don't want his decisions to be my decisions. I don't care if his feelings get hurt or not because if he keeps cheating he won't be on the team anyways. This is recreational tennis not some vision of team from your glory days where things are kept in house and problems solved in the locker room. I feel like I am talking Al Bundy or something.
     
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  43. Sim

    Sim Semi-Pro

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    Way to contradict yourself. By the way, if your partner cheats (and you know it), and you agree, that makes you a cheater/hooker as well. No way to argue that...:-?
     
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  44. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    I sometimes play with a guy that just sees good balls as out. I'm convinced he's not really cheating, and that he truly believes in his calls, but I correct him frequently. Maybe my corrections will help his eyesight.
     
    #44
  45. 5thstreet

    5thstreet New User

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    I think I want to side with Teflon Tom on this issue. He really has a point about team psychology.

    Now would I let an "obvious" bad call by my partner stand? No, but overruling my partner repeatedly will damage the team.

    I think this is all part of finding a good doubles partner. I want a doubles partner that I can trust to make the right call. I shouldn't be spending resources double-checking their work.
     
    #45
  46. goober

    goober Legend

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    The problem is we ARE talking about obvious bad calls. We are not talking about maybes or where your partner clearly had a better angle than you. We are talking about balls that you are 100% certain were in. He is arguing that you should back your partner on any and all calls even ones you were certain that were in and handle it in the locker room.
     
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  47. tenniscasey

    tenniscasey Semi-Pro

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    Exactly. Close calls aren't part of this conversation; this is about obvious hooking. Teflon's OK with it when team solidarity is at stake.
     
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  48. michael_1265

    michael_1265 Professional

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    To TeflonTom:
    There is no other team sport where you call your own lines exclusively. Example: You step out of bounds in a pick-up basketball game. If your opponent is in a good position to see, he calls it. If not, no call, because you certainly aren't watching your own feet. In tennis, YOU are the only one who is ALLOWED to make the call, so you are the de facto umpire/referee/line judge at that point. You need to make that call with impartiality, and if you think being a "team player" precludes you from accurately making the call, then you need to find another sport, because you are violating the Code every time you play. There is no ambiguity in this.
     
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  49. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Cool story bro!

    Cheating tennis bros - ultimate team 4 lyfe!!!! Yea Team!
     
    #49
  50. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    The other day I called a serve out. The server thought otherwise and said something. I reiterated "out." He walked up to the net and said, "it looked in to me." I replied once again, "I think it was out."

    He jumped all over that. "You 'think?' If you're not sure, then the ball was in!"

    For Christ's sake, I SAID OUT. I reverse calls not infrequently when I or my partner is wrong. I don't hook. The ball was out, give it a rest.
     
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