Where did this "Nadal has OCD" thing come from?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by TheFifthSet, Jan 2, 2010.

  1. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,421
    Honestly, all of a sudden it has gotten to be the main defense from Nadal apologists as to why he wastes time.

    Personally, I don't buy it. For one thing, OCD isn't a walk in the park, and it can be a serious, debilitating disorder. I "had" it at one point (and I still have some symptoms, the main one being that I wash my hands frequently) and I know it isn't something to be taken lightly. I highly doubt that Rafael Nadal, an exquisitely trained and cared for athlete, could go all these years without his medical team or himself knowing he had it (as I cannot find any evidence that he claims to have it).
    Beyond this, if he did have it he would have it treated immediatly, as it is a pretty big detriment. Even mild OCD can cause a noticable lack of concentration and anxiety. Also, it would be apparent in his everyday life as well, and there is no evidence that Nadal has similar rituals in everyday activities. Even if Nadal had a mild case of OCD, he would be at a pretty big disadvantage, and it would harm his mental wherewithal (ie, saying that Nadal uses his OCD to slow pace down on big points, thereby HELPING him, is a load of crap).
    Also, it is a known fact that 85-90% of people occasionally have intrusive, tedious thoughts that they exhibit, but the differene is that those with OCD are distressed by these thoughts/rituals and wish to stop them but cannot. Nadal, on the other hand, seems to be completely fine with his rituals and does not wish to stop them, nor do they falter his game in any way. Though individual cases of OCD vary in severity, they almost always have a negative impact on the person that has it, and they in no way try to harness it (as Nadal supposedly does on big points).
    I think it is far likelier that Nadal is merely a very superstitous person. It's not unusual; almost all tennis players (myself included, but then again I used to have OCD so maybe I'm not the best example LOL) have some sort of ritual that they follow for whatever reason, either because they feel it actually helps them play better or because they like to maintain a certain order/symmetry. It doesn't mean that all of us have OCD.
    People need to accept that Nadal DOES exhibit un-sportsmanlike behaviour when he decides to go over the time limit constantly. It ain't OCD. It ain't any other form of psychosis. It's annoying, and it's completely in his hands to stop it, and it is a selfish habit. But, it's also only one facet of his identity as a champion athlete and ambassador of the game, so to me it doesn't make him a bad sportsman by any means IMO. It's just that his fans need to realize that it is a problem and not pin it on some non-existent disorder that Nadal has.

    Rant over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
    #1
  2. CMM

    CMM Legend

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    6,713
    As long as he plays great, I don't care. Vamos Rafa!
     
    #2
  3. TheFifthSet

    TheFifthSet Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,421
    That's good, as long as you don't use it as an excuse for Nadal's antics (although it's not as if they bother me to no end, they just irk me at times).
     
    #3
  4. Cantankersore

    Cantankersore Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    513
    OCD has just kind of become a word that people mean instead of superstitious, or mildly obsessed or whatever. I personally think that it's kind of stupid, but whatever. As for Nadal's time wasting, I have bigger problems in my life.
     
    #4
  5. malakas

    malakas Banned

    Joined:
    May 27, 2006
    Messages:
    15,791
    Location:
    Greece
    It came from some people being internet doctors and speculating about things they don't have the slightest idea about.
     
    #5
  6. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    You're absolutely correct.I havent bothered arguing with people who claim Nadal has OCD but having studied a bit of psychology I can tell you that your description is correct and not surprising seeing that you had it.
    OCD dosent show up only in a match situation.It can be at any point during the day .
    Personally ,I just think Nadal's time-wasting is gamesmanship and certainly an effective one.Its all about getting the psychological edge and he gets it.
     
    #6
  7. NickH87

    NickH87 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    666
    So what nadal does with his time affects you?
     
    #7
  8. djokovicgonzalez2010

    djokovicgonzalez2010 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    11,865
    Location:
    SW Virginia, USA
    I honestly think he does, as does my mother, a doctor and (believe it or not) huge Nadal fan
     
    #8
  9. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    This OCD thing started way back in 05',not now,and it wasn't started by Nadal fans,but by outside observers. But let's not go overboard,Nadal has a mild case of OCD,it would be seriously delusional to say it's anything bad,it would be disrespectful to those whose life is really affected by this condition.

    It's one thing to be superstitious,almost all athletes have some superstition,like stepping with the right foot when you enter the field and so on but I've never seen anything like Nadal on a tennis court. Nadal's OCD manifests itself in the form of some rituals and ticks(compulsory behaviour) aimed to reduce anxiety(in a official match,he doesn't really do it in practice where he is more relaxed) and while he can control their speed,he still feels like he needs to do them,which qualifies as OCD,because he doesn't need to do them(and some of them are really embarrassing and give him no benefits-like buttpicking and water bottle arrangement).

    Nadal's OCD has become a problem because these little rituals amount(there were fewer of them in 04' for example and he served faster,whereas 09' Nadal is the slowest I have ever seen) and so he takes more and more time because of the sheer amount which have added up(go get towel,towel off,go to the baseline,pick underwear,bounce ball,arrange hair,look up,bounce ball again,start serve motion). The only habit that Nadal lost was sock arrangement. One in 5 years on the big stage.

    If this is all just a sham conjured up by Nadal,why choose buttpicking? It certainly isn't flattering. I can't seriously think that Nadal chooses to embarass himself with water bottle arrangement and buttpicking just to gain a few more seconds? When asked about this "habits" a couple of months ago he said he is trying to stop but that it is hard for him. This alone should point out the fact that it is a mild form of OCD,not just superstitions.

    I'm sure it started out as superstitions but by now it is OCD,at least where I am concerned. Nadal played a brilliant point against seppi this clay season but celebrated shortly because he saw that his bottles fell down. He immediately put them back up and arranged them accordingly. Nadal was leading sod 6-1,5-0 in Rome but his first worry on the changeover wasn't to check out his racket or whatever but to re-arrange his bottles because he had just changed court. Did he really need luck to win one more game? By now it is compulsory behaviour for him. Not to mention the fact that he got mad when someone screwed with his bottles,not really normal behaviour if you ask me.

    I seriously wonder how Nadal would play a match if they didn't allow him to pick his butt or arrange his water bottles.

    BTW,this is just my opinion after watching Nadal since 04',it is not medical fact or anything so please don't flame me on that. And again,this OCD speculation didn't start from the Nadal fans camp,remember that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
    #9
  10. Xenakis

    Xenakis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,431
    I'm diagnosing Malakas with delusions of grandeur. See her sig :shock:
     
    #10
  11. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916



    He does perfectly fine, if you didn't notice he pretty much stopped his trivial rituals after Pascal Maria gave him a time violation warning in the Wimbledon final in the 4th set TB. Sure he had a few small ones still, but nothing over the top like usual. And he performed perfectly fine, and still ended up winning.



    It's not OCD. Please stop using that as a crutch or excuse. OCD would have a negative impact on Nadal's game, not the other way around.
     
    #11
  12. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    Delusions of grandeur indeed.:)
     
    #12
  13. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2009
    Messages:
    9,745
    So why does he pick his butt or defend his water bottles so vigurously? That isn't rational behaviour,he only does it to reduce anxiety as far as I can tell.And please don't tell me that his underwear bothers him or something like that. It can't happen on every point. Why CHOOSE to do something embarrassing? They showed it once on a big screen in a match and Nadal looked embarrassed yet he couldn't stop doing it. He even said that is it something he finds very hard to let go. It seems like more than a superstition to me.
     
    #13
  14. Anaconda

    Anaconda Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    4,052
    I have OCD.

    I count the stairs as i walk up them

    I also count to 30 in my head in class. Whether it's because i am bored doing maths equations i don't know. Like my desk i sit at might be number 1, my pen might be number 2 etc.
     
    #14
  15. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916



    Do you know how distracting and how detrimental OCD really is to your health? The behavior Nadal exhibits is superstition; not OCD.






    "Obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) is an anxiety disorder defined combinations of such thoughts (obsessions) and behaviors (compulsions). The symptoms of this anxiety disorder range from repetitive hand-washing and extensive hoarding to preoccupation with sexual, religious, or aggressive impulses. These symptoms can be alienating and time-consuming, and often cause severe emotional and economic loss. Although the acts of those who have OCD may appear paranoid and come across to others as psychotic, OCD sufferers often recognize their thoughts and subsequent actions as irrational, and they may become further distressed by this realization."





    Let me repeat to you; when Nadal receives a time violation warning HE STOPS HIS RITUALS OF TIME WASTING AT WILL. A person with OCD would simply be INCAPABLE of doing such a thing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
    #15
  16. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    I do some stuff like this too but not physically just in my head. I think he has a mild form of OCD but I also think this type of personality is common in the top areas of any occupation. I know that there is anxiety and that it can be hard to focus but it also allows people to become interested in one activity for long periods of time. Nadal practices hitting over and over for the last 20 years. Most kids would not be able to do that. I think if he were medicated for it it might hinder his tennis too.
     
    #16
  17. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    OCD is the fourth most common mental disorder and is diagnosed nearly as often as asthma and diabetes mellitus.[1] In the United States, one in 50 adults has OCD.[2] The phrase "obsessive–compulsive" has become part of the English lexicon, and is often used in an informal or caricatured manner to describe someone who is meticulous, perfectionistic, absorbed in a cause, or otherwise fixated on something or someone.[3] Although these signs may be present in OCD, a person who exhibits them does not necessarily have OCD, and may instead have obsessive–compulsive personality disorder (OCPD), an autism spectrum disorder or some other condition. The symptoms of OCD can range from difficulty with odd numbers to nervous habits such as opening a door and closing it four times before one leaves it either open or shut. (Wikipedia)
     
    #17
  18. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    I understand your point, but OCD is not exactly the same in every person, and it's possible to have compulsions without the obsessive or violent thoughts.
     
    #18
  19. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    Yes but the thing is that Nadal breaks his rituals the moment he receives a time violation warning (or at least curbs them majorly). A person even with mild OCD would have a real hard time of doing such a thing.
     
    #19
  20. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    Maybe, maybe not. It's different for everyone. He is playing in front of millions, on tv, FOR millions. Perhaps he can curb them in these circumstances. It also seems like he is a very obedient type of person, so that may override his rituals at least for a short period of time. If his Uncle Toni said STOP THAT! He's probably stop for awhile too.

    I don't think his case is very serious, but I do think these are compulsions not on purpose.
     
    #20
  21. ronalditop

    ronalditop Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    2,745
    Location:
    in my room
    It would be awesome if someone kicked Nadal's bottles in the middle of a match. I would love to see his reaction.
     
    #21
  22. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    I personally believe that Nadal is not OCD; I think he's a perfectionist and he has to have things played HIS way, although he can easily play by the rules if he wants to.
     
    #22
  23. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    To determine whether Nadal has this OCD you have to look beyond just a match situation.You have to look at how he handles anxiety outside of match situations and whether there are signs in his daily life that indicate OCD.
    So far we havent received such information.
     
    #23
  24. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    True but I've read that he has to step over cracks and such things even in his normal daily life. He said he is like Jack Nicholson in As Good As It Gets in his normal life too. Like I said, OCD can manifest different in different people. He may not have it as severely as some.
     
    #24
  25. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916



    Exactly; you would think Nadal would handle press conferences quite badly (most people are anxious when speaking in front of reporters and on live television) if he had OCD.
     
    #25
  26. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    He's VERY shy. I think he has just happened to grow up in front of cameras so it's not a serious issue. You can tell he's uncomfortable by the weird faces he makes.
     
    #26
  27. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916



    You can discuss it however you want, however, rules are rules, and Nadal breaks them. Also, until we have medical proof that Nadal is OCD, then he is not OCD, and he is simply breaking rules.



    Unless you want to start playing with circumstantial evidence; in that case Nadal is doping then.
     
    #27
  28. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916




    Really? More like he just has a language barrier. He's perfectly fine at a press conference.
     
    #28
  29. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    Now you are changing the topic. We are talking about whether he has OCD or not, and it's clear to many that he does have it, however mildly. It's true that if it's not officially diagnosed (and perhaps in Spain or in his family culture these things are not accepted) then he should stick to the rules, but this thread is not about that.
     
    #29
  30. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    I know. I said he grew up in front of cameras so he's okay but he's not "perfectly fine" . He's shy and awkward
     
    #30
  31. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    Even a minor case can have showings outside a match situation.If he really does things that indicate this then he might as well have it but so far he hasnt admitted nor have I heard of him having OCD.OCD bothers people to a great extent.Even a minor form of it can be extremely annoying and disturbing for them.
    Nadal so far looks completely normal off-court.
     
    #31
  32. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    1 in 5 people in America have OCD and most of them do not look weird. It's a common problem and it ranges from mild to severe just like any other mental illness.
     
    #32
  33. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    One day, as we were walking down the hall of the hotel we were staying at in Sweden, I noticed Nadal hopping around the marble floor, like he was playing hopscotch.

    "What are you doing?" I asked.

    "You know, what is that movie with Jack Nicholson?" Nadal asked. "The one where he's walking down the sidewalk and … "

    "You mean 'As Good As It Gets'?"

    "Yeah, yeah, that's it," and then he bursts out into laughter. "I love that movie."

    "Why?"

    "I don't know," he said. "Maybe I hate cracks too."
     
    #33
  34. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    This topic was created to tell people this :


    1. Very likely Nadal does not have OCD because he does not exhibit OCD behavior OFF the court.


    2. Nadal has NEVER been diagnosed with OCD before


    3. OCD is a very distracting and debilitating disorder; even a minor form can annoy and distract a person GREATLY. Nadal seems fine off the court and on the court when he is given a time violation.


    4. Therefore, stop using OCD as an excuse for rule breaking, as other people who actually have OCD would be greatly offended.



    Basically the gist of it is this "Nadal doesn't have OCD, therefore don't use it as an excuse for Nadal to waste time and break rules." So yes, what I said does have something to do with the topic.
     
    #34
  35. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    OCD can have clear showings and MUST be checked.I dont know what Nadal and his team are playing at if he really has it and hasnt got it sorted out.
     
    #35
  36. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    For God's sake that dosent indicate OCD :lol:
    Nowhere has it been mentioned that Nadal does this frequently.:lol:
     
    #36
  37. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    I showed you that he does stuff like this off court about 3 posts up. That was an interview he did with ESPN
     
    #37
  38. Ledigs

    Ledigs Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2009
    Messages:
    4,074
    Location:
    NY
    Stepping over cracks does indicate OCD
     
    #38
  39. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    People with OCD dont essentially look weird but the signs especially to those who know them well are obvious :wink:
     
    #39
  40. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916


    All it says is that Nadal likes a movie. Wow. You're trying to use that as evidence that Nadal has OCD? I have far stronger evidence that Nadal is doping and somehow it gets dismissed, but Nadal fans will go as far as to use a short excerpt of Nadal hopping around and saying he likes a movie as evidence that he is OCD.
     
    #40
  41. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    Did it occur to you that this was one occasion ( and I highly doubt Nadal was serious about it) ?
     
    #41
  42. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    13,916
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
    #42
  43. TheMusicLover

    TheMusicLover Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2009
    Messages:
    8,077
    Location:
    Cygnus X-1
    Nadal jokes around a lot, but it often seems to go unnoticed because of his wonky English. It's funny to see some folks take anything he says as the Holy Gospel.
    He's never ever said he has OCD himself - he's said that some of his quircks are just a bad habit he picked up from his youth. Don't know if that included the time wasting on court as well.
     
    #43
  44. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,884
    Location:
    Next door to Elisha Cuthbert.
    its a superstition. have you ever watched Nomar Garciaparra play baseball? he would tap that glove like 10 times before each pitch. Lots of baseball players have these "idiosyncrasies". Its been part of sports for years. But I agree, Nadal seems to be the one player that has this "issue" more so than any other pro.
     
    #44
  45. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,884
    Location:
    Next door to Elisha Cuthbert.
    yep. not OCD. its part of sports. the more time a player has to "waste" the greater the superstition. certain sports like baseball, basketball, tennis allow a player to have them (like a basketball player and the free throw line).
     
    #45
  46. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    I'm not talking about the linning up of bottles or individual ticks that may be called superstitions.Whether you have superstitions or not you're supposed to play within the rules.
    Nadal can have as many superstitions as he likes,for all I care,as long he dosent take up a good amount of time.
     
    #46
  47. Azzurri

    Azzurri Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2006
    Messages:
    7,884
    Location:
    Next door to Elisha Cuthbert.
    i agree. he does waste way too much time. I wish they would just start taking points/games off the guy. but the officials don't have the balls.

    as for my example, maybe you never saw Nomar play...its a waste of time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-a15s4s3_I
     
    #47
  48. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    ^^you're right.I havent seen him play.Where I live,its not even played or covered that much.:wink:
    Thanks for the link,anyway :wink:
     
    #48
  49. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2009
    Messages:
    21,367
    Whether if Rafa has OCD or not, the players still have the right to dictate the pace of the game when they serve. Rafa has to go by the rules just like everyone when serving. Just b/c he claimed to have problems doesn't mean he's exempt from the rules and the players have to pay the price.
     
    #49
  50. mandy01

    mandy01 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    11,518
    if he really has OCD then his problem is understandable to SOME extent.I dont think he has it.
     
    #50

Share This Page