Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Golden Retriever, Aug 18, 2006.
That's right . . . save it for the General Pro Players section.
Great advice Dave, as usual. I consider you as one of the best minds in tennis and was impressed with the first post I ever read of yours on tennisone which I am a member. I purchased your book based on your knowledge of the game and the stuff you were coming up with that no one else was doing. The statement that you made on one of your posts, was, the reason you are not getting better is you want to win. I thought of course I want to win who doesn't. After a little deeper thought a bell rung and things have not been the same for me. I have improved a great deal and owe it all to that one statement you made. Would like to stop in and get you to autograph my book "Tennis Mastery" If I ever get to Utah. A big thank you for all you have done for the sport of tennis.
Great to see you back on the board BB. There are lots of advice given on this board they range from no clue to middle of the road and great. In my opinion yours are solid with examples to support.
Where did this quote originate? Is this from another thread or from a deleted post in this thread??? And why does this need to be proved, MSNB?
Well, I wish I could say its been an interesting discussion - we seem to get to certain points in these discussions and then we start going round and round until nothing makes any sense.
I believe in post #153 that challenge was to "offer proof" that the split-step worked in that "was it effective in changing directions". Although this poster later said there was only one study that offered proof the "conclusion was" that the "advantage" of the split-step was minimal at best.
First of all there have been hundreds of studies and discussions on the subject in one form or another going back many years. This isn't something that someone came up all of a sudden and suddenly everyone just followed suit. I am not aware of any study that concludes the split-step is a waste of energy - if there is such a study, lets take a look but IMO nobody will be able to reference any such material.
I think the better way to settle this discussion quickly would be to just ask anyone to state any pro player who DOESN'T use the split-step in one form or another. I get to watch a lot of very good tennis and I'm not aware of any player who doesn't use the split-step - that's proof enough for me?
looks like MSNB has no idea what he's talking about.
here's an actual study on the subject:
Abstract;Many sports require quick lateral footwork. The split step is a preparation for the lateral movement in tennis footwork. However there has been no evidence to show the effectiveness of the split step. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to show the effectiveness of the split step by comparing kinetics and kinematics of the limb during the lateral movement between the split step and without the split step. Ten skilled tennis players (average age: 21.2 years) participated as subjects. A five camera motion analysis system and a force plate were used at 120Hz. The subjects were instrumented with thirteen retro-reflective markers on the lower limb. Each subject moved in lateral direction as quickly as possible in response to an instruction signal which flashed on the left or right side randomly. The crossover step (pivot on the foot closest to the ball and step with the opposite foot) was used as the initial step. The reaction time (to reach the peak in the Y-component of the ground reaction force) was an average 0.11 sec faster with the split step than without the split step. Maximum knee flexion angles in the split step were larger than that without the split step. The time to reach the peak knee flexion angle was 0.13 sec shorter with the split step than without the split step. The distance that the marker on the sacrum moved in 1 second was 0.38m longer with the split step than without the split step. Using the split step, subjects could bend knees faster and larger and move to lateral direction more quickly with less force since the gravity can be used to support knee flexion. In addition, player could be able to change foot position in the air. Furthermore the timing of the split step could be a key point. (author abst.)
Ibanez are funny. Many shredders love them. For example, my buddy plays a 7 string Universe exclusively and hates Les Pauls and Teles. He finally got his ibanez endorsement this month. I love the heavy tones he gets with it, but it has zero versatility.
I personally love the Les Pauls and Teles. Thats my thing. I play a Fender Jazz bass. I just like the go to's because I know how they blend and sit in a mix in any genre. If I am sent to record on a rap beat and then have to play on a singer songwriter track the next hour, I know my J Bass will work perfect for both. Can't mess with the classics.
papa, you know although its good to question conventional wisdom, like you said, often the answer is if every pro does it it must be the way.
Ready position for athletes that allow them to move laterally either side, not necessarily forward and back YET.
DBacks, Safeties, Linebackers, 3rdBasemen, SS, 2ndBasemen, 1stBasemen, Basketball players, Soccer players, Volleyball players, basically all reacting athletes.
Even sprinters use a very small form of the split step to accelerate as quickly as possible. This is so obvious it's not even worth debating. It's almost like saying "prove that you need to use a racket to hit the ball at a high level".
It is also used in badminton. However, the "hop" is usually a bit more subdued that it is for tennis. In some instances, some players players quickly "sink" (lowering their COG) as the opponent hits the shuttle -- this has a similar effect to the more overt "hop".
Fairly certain that the split-step is also used in squash & cricket. I've used a variation of the split-step for volleyball as well.
in all sports i played where quick reactions are needed, we were taught to be on your toes, on the balls of your feet, always ready, never back on your heels etc. I never heard the term split step until tennis, and I didnt know what it was until reading these forums, it seems like its just basic common sense. and good practice. Individuals would probably find their own optimal version of the split step so it works best for them, I would guess you dont need to follow the text book all the time, just take what works for you, and allows you to keep on improving.
i'm afraid you still don't.
^^^Ready position BTW is more then just spreading your legs out. You should sit your butt back more like your getting ready for a deadlift. Then you can explode a bit more into your split and react quicker..There is actually alot of fine tuning that can be done with good coaching. Its not that natural at all for most athletes IMHO - unless they are coming from another sport.
Its great Bungalow Bill is back and Dave Smith still posts. Though its a shame we lost the serve doctor. That guy is a good coach too. But to be honest I don't understand the BB fighting issue..
I still think he is wrong about the whole pronation thing - I absolutely think it something that needs to be taught for alot of athletes. But that doesn't mean you can have a civil disagreement.
I mean no one told this semi-pro football player that a bit of drilling on pronation his throwing motion would screw him up..
But I digress..
Unless you play mixed doubles
LOL, love it. I moved from providing a whole bunch of poor advice to only sometimes. Yeah, tell me about it.
Okay, okay, I give. When did we argue about pronation? Or did we? Did I misread? Perhaps we just disagreed in HOW it should be taught.
Remember, some coaches choose to teach certain things indirectly rather than directly. In other words, they incorporate the pronation of the arm training by focusing on something else.
I do not teach pronation, I teach people how to serve. Because I teach people to serve, pronation training is built in but it is not the focus unless absolutely necessary - which I rarely run into.
To the rest of y'all
Bungalo Bill's character will always be a controversial one. It is planned that way. Bungalo Bill will always ask "why or why not." You will test your knowledge and skills with me. Why? Because I learn here too and if you provide "full of it" answers, well, Bungalo Bill will challenge that.
And if you get offended, Bungalo Bill smells shark bait and will move in for the kill. THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU DONT LIKE! WHEN BB CHALLENGES YOU, YOU RESORT TO YOUR INSECURE WAYS AND INSULT AND THEN PLAY VICTIM WHEN BUNGALO BILL TAKES ANOTHER BIG CHOMP ON YOUR BUTT. YOU'RE STUCK! YOU KNOW IT!!! YOU'RE WOUNDED!!! AND CHOMP CHOMP YOU GO DOWN!!!
WOW! OUCH!! I KNOW IT HURTS WHEN I CHOMP ON YOUR ARM, BUT IT MAKES YOU BETTER! lol
YOU END UP SCURRING THROUGH YOUR RESEARCH TO BEAT ME, AND YOU MAY, BUT IT AIN'T GONNA BE EASY.
SOME HAVE PASSED. OTHERS LIKE YOU TENNISCOACHFL ARE STUCK IN THE SHARK TANK - CHOMP CHOMP
Really now, geeez, holding a grudge for two months? Now that makes me laugh!
I know, how about a big internet group hug. Will that make everyone feel better?
Hey, I got a bazillion posts arguing with you, calling you bad names, the such, and I get no respect?
Of course, I recognize that more than 95% of what you say HELPS some people, and they are happy with your answers. I just like to argue.
You get respect! But we agreed on a couple of recent posts. So now, I dont know which way we are going. I might have to recruit another enemy just to keep me sharp.
I love all of you guys - both friends and enemies. The friends keep the board happy and light, the enemies keep it spiced up and full of energy! LOVE IT!!!
It's all good. It is who we are.
thanks for another pointless post. You keep on doing what you do, I will do what I do, if I feel my lack of understanding of the split step is holding me back I will be sure to ask your opinion.
Yes, that is correct. Many sports utilize the "split-step" for specific uses. Much of it involves changing direction.
Tennis uses the split-step slightly differently than some sports. Although how you perform it is similiar, it is the timing (when) you do it and how you incorporate it in a rally that can be difficult or breakdown.
One of the biggest reasons players need to work on their footwork is to build endurance and conserve energy. Repetition and conditioning help a player not only move about the court better but also be able to sustain good movement when under stress or when they are tired. Just as your stroke shouldn't break down so shouldn't your footwork.
Once the footwork goes or you start falling behind and have to play more defensive, you lose more points. That is what MakingSenseNotBabies isn't telling anyone. Although I know he knows this.
Footwork is not about getting to one ball. For that, who cares what or how you move? It is about getting to all balls and angles while maintaining your balance and staying in the point while conserving energy for the long match ahead. Good footwork helps you a lot when you are tired and start to get sloppy. That is when your footwork training really starts to stand out.
Now, if all you aspire to be is a 3.0 player, then working on your footwork may not be as important as a player at the 5.0 level. Same with your form and technique. From this perspective, I can agree with MakingSenseNotBabies.
The split-step is the split-step. Not much difference in how it is used or what it is. It should be incorporated throughout your game. Where you might get into a preference is using a step-out vs. a gravity step for balls further out from you - that sort of thing.
Now, if a player is having trouble with the split-step when coming to net (S&V or Doubles player), they can use the studder step (I call it squeeky shoes steps) and quickly change directions. Especially Senior players.
Well, at the moment, it is the right way - wouldn't you agree?
Does anyone watch American Idol? I do. My kids love it and it is a perfect time to enjoy watching and hearing good talent with the family.
My favorites are:
1. Crystal Bowresox "Momma Sox"
2. Lee Dewyze
Now here is something we can agree on. Crystal is the best overall talent on this years show in my opinion.
Crystal is the only one that HAS talent this year. If they really ditch Simon I don't think I can watch it anymore.
at 56 i think i qualify as a senior. i find if i stutter step im not as well balanced as if i take a proper split step.
i agree it is the right way and not just at the moment.
Yes, there are tradeoffs. Sometimes, I have found it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks.
Yeah, by far. Not even close. My wife likes Lee. I like Lee's voice, he just needs to work at getting more polished.
But hands down, Momma Sox rules. Glad we can agree on something. Thanks.
I dont' think we did (argue) just pointing out that posters could have civil disagreements. I am kinda surprised your so disliked by some posters.
Ahhh, yes, well, that goes with the turf. I write a lot around here mainly to serve the players here. However, some misinterpret that I am trying to "hog" the show. It probably looks like that. And you are right it is just some. Like anything, you have those that like you, those that are in the middle, and those that don't. It's life.
I think he's dead.
Did you not also pass away some time last September?
Are we witnessing something of a Lazarus effect here?
He is back. What is going on Behappy. You still causing trouble at Yandell's site?
He is back, see above!!!
Separate names with a comma.