Where will Martina Navratilova be placed in history?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by TXKiteboarder, Jul 4, 2006.

  1. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    Pete's up 14-12 on Emerson.
     
    #51
  2. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    margaret court was beaten by a 55 year old man.The greatest player who ever lived...

    the standard of women's tennis in those days was abolutely appalling,margaret court was just a big man,back in the days when women still played women's tennis.She over powered them with her huge manly physique,she was the best of the best,and she was beaten by 55 year old pensioner with a bit of touch and guile.
     
    #52
  3. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Yawn...........
     
    #53
  4. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    What takes a great deal of steam out of your argument is that Bobby Riggs then went out and lost to Billie Jean King.

    But, yeah, you're right, one loss to a guy she'd never played before and would never play again who then went on to get beaten definitively by one of her rivals is the definitive statement of her tennis career. [rolls eyes]
     
    #54
  5. The Gorilla

    The Gorilla Banned

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    55 year old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    really really old man!!!!!

    and billie jean king hasn't got mention on this list yet has she?
     
    #55
  6. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    In one match. Riggs definitely deserves credit for it. BJK then went out and whipped Riggs in straight sets. Margaret Court then went on to win the 1973 U.S. Open (over Evonne Goolagong whom she'd already beaten in the Australian Open Final [she'd also beaten Chris Evert in the French Open Final]).

    I think BJK is on that short list, as well.
     
    #56
  7. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    And why would she?.. Because she is an American?..

    Sheeesh.. History is history.. You simply cant re-write it..

    BJK was a good player.. Not doubting that..
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
    #57
  8. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Your reply was better oberyn...:)
     
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  9. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    Alot is made of that match with Bobby Riggs. One should do some heavy reading on that topic as to how the hype and protests effected the private and humble Court. Also as to whether Riggs, the ultimate hustler who regularly upped the ante, may have thrown the match to BJK in hopes of a bigger pay-day a "re-match" may have held and in the end may have been out-hustled by King.

    What also puts steam back in the argument is that Margaret Court was 5-2 overall and 4-1 in major finals alone vs. BJK.

    She was also was a combined 19-5 vs. her fellow Hall of Famers in slam finals.

    Including:

    4-1 vs. 12 time major winner BJK
    3-2 vs. 7 time major winner Maria Bueno
    3-1 vs. 7 time major winner Evonne Goolagong Cawley. Court's loss occurred while she was pregnant with her first child.
    1-0 vs. 18 time major winner Chris Evert on the red clay of RG.

    She won her first major in 1960 and her last in 1973 a span of 14 years which included a "retirement" after Wimbledon 1966 through the start of the 1968 season and a sabbatical to have her first child in 1972 when she did not return until the USO that year. Then in 1973 she won the AO, RG and USO again. She had her second child in 1974.

    Court who won her last major in 1973 was 14 years older than Navratilova, was 2-5 in their h2h from 1975-77. Their last meeting was in 1977 a 5-7 6-4 6-4 win for Navratilova when she was 21 and Court 35. Court retired the same year 1977 when she learned she was pregnant with her third child.

    Court, Navratilova and Graf should be mentioned in the same breath. Navratilova's career touched on each but none overlapped. Declaring a clear cut winner is ill advised. Dismissing any one of them is plain stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2007
    #59
  10. dowjones

    dowjones Rookie

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    The best female player ever.

    Not a very good ambassador for the game though.
     
    #60
  11. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that Court didn't take the exhibition match with Riggs nearly as seriouly as Riggs did or as BJK would take her subsequent match with Riggs. The surface arguably favored Riggs' style and his presentation of flowers to Court before the match was all part of Riggs' gamesmanship.

    This one's been making the rounds for a while now. Obviously, I wouldn't put anything past Bobby Riggs.

    The steam and argument to which I was referring was the contention that Margaret Court's accomplishments are somehow diminished because she lost to Bobby Riggs. I think that Riggs' subsequent loss to BJK plus Court's record against the top women (including BJK) means that one can't define her career according to one match against Bobby Riggs in 1973.

    I've said that, IMO, there's a very short list for G.O.A.T. and Margaret Court is definitely one of the players on that list, so you're preaching to the choir on that one.
     
    #61
  12. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Agreed.... Actually I agree with the last 2 posts..
     
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  13. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    My apologies, scanning back and forth, I took one of your posts out of context. We seem to be very much on the same page.
     
    #63
  14. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    So much that you even can spell her name properly .....


    Condi
     
    #64
  15. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Its funny.. I am yet to meet a person that has never made a spelling mistake in their life before.. Would be an honour if I did.

    So pointing out a spelling mistake is kinda like admitting that you simply have nothing better to say, or you are struggling for an interesting point to make:roll:
     
    #65
  16. max8176

    max8176 Rookie

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    Hey, dont feel bad, this person is notorious around here for being a "b". I think you have made very fair comments.
     
    #66
  17. max8176

    max8176 Rookie

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    While she is not my favorite female player, I still think MN is the greatest ever though because she can win in all surafces and in singles and doubles. Not to mention she keeps on her competitiveness at an older age. LOL
     
    #67
  18. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Thanks.. I think everyone can agree that MN is up there as one of the greats, I think all I was trying to do was just express facts as facts. I will say that as an ambassadore, and someone that has given alot back, then Martina is number 1.. Not many of the old girls have kept going like she has..
     
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  19. alwaysatnet

    alwaysatnet Semi-Pro

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    I have said before that Graf was greater but upon reflection when you add in MN's outstanding doubles record you would be hard pressed to find a greater single player than Martina Navratilova.Comparing eras is a useless exercise,however,and I think it's enough just to say she was one of the greatest.Beyond that, you can't with certainty say anything.
     
    #69
  20. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    To mispronouce a player you "love"?
    Seems to me that you don't give a shi.t for Graf but said otherwise only to give added credibility to your putting Court ahead of "Graff".

    Well, caught with your pants at your ankles! :D

    Condi
     
    #70
  21. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    In keeping with your theme it's:

    m-i-s-p-r-o-n-o-u-n-c-e.

    Be careful you may get light headed as you bend over to pick up your knickers.
     
    #71
  22. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    Well, I'll pile on here, too.

    Condoleezza, as far as I can tell the spelling of Graf was at issue, not the pronunciation (and yes, the "o" is omitted for the noun as opposed to its verb forms).

    Graff and Graf would (presumably) be pronounced the same way. :p
     
    #72
  23. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Most certainly not.
    "Graf" is pronounced like "laugh", "Graff" like "rough".

    Condi
     
    #73
  24. oberyn

    oberyn Professional

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    How can you tell how this poster, or any other, is pronouncing a particular word?

    For all I know, you spell laugh correctly, but mispronounce it. I can tell whether or not you've misspelled a word in a given post, I can't tell whether you are or are not pronouncing it correctly.

    For what it's worth, "Graff" like rough in graffiti. Then again, "Graff" like laugh in graffer. ;)
     
    #74
  25. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    oberyn.. I just say the best thing to do is allow this person to do all the talking.. She obviously likes to do it.. Regardless of wether she actually knows what she is talking about or not.. I dont mind if she pulls me up for spelling.. I guess some people dont have anything better to do with their time..

    Chris
     
    #75
  26. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    The point is not any misspelling in general.
    You said that you believe Court to be the GOAT although you "love Graff".
    With this kind of reference to Graf you clearly wanted to bolster you credibility regarding your assessment of Court.

    And I make a sarcastic remark that your love for Graf must not be very deep if you aren't even able to spell the (simple) name of the best female player of the last (at least) 20 years.

    BTW, "Graff" is - as you may not know - an often used intentional misspelling by Anti-Grafites (Selesians, Navratilovers).

    Condi
     
    #76
  27. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    yawn...........
     
    #77
  28. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    What time is it over there in Japan, Chriss?

    Condi
     
    #78
  29. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Only 5:15pm..
     
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  30. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Nice ss on the end of Chris there too.. I guess you think you are clever?.. I guess thats why I yawned.. It is after all a message forum.. Because I cant believe you could be this funny in real life!
     
    #80
  31. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    Yes, indeed I do.
    I even know how to spell the names of players I love!

    Condi
     
    #81
  32. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    Ok, you seem to be getting off on being difficult.. So this is where I will leave you too it and say thanks for the fun.. But in all honesty, you are a fart that has become a turd.. So in closing...Nice chattin.
     
    #82
  33. Condoleezza

    Condoleezza Banned

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    That from someone who wrote "as much as I love Graff" and then can't bear to read someone write "So much that you can spell her name properly" ....

    Condi
     
    #83
  34. ATPballkid

    ATPballkid Professional

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    A player who is among the greatest of ALL time does not have to rely on the #1 ranked player in the world (who is just a tennager and #1 for consecutive years while winning 9 of the 11 biggest events in the sport over a period of more than 2 years) being stabbed in the back with a knife.

    The Monica Seles incident in Hamburg, Germany at the end of April in 1993 -- especially when you take into consideration how dominant the young teenage Seles was in the months November 1990 through April 1993 -- SEALS it that Graf was not the best of all time.

    Graf was in the middle of her career in the early 1990s -- and yet Seles as a teenager was the one ranked #1 and the one winning 9 of those 11 biggest titles between November 1990 and January 1993 -- and this, within itself, eliminates Graf from consideration as the top woman tennis player of all time.

    Navratilova in her mid 30s (turned 34 in 1990 .. turned 35 in 1991 .. turned 36 in 1992 .. and turned 37 in 1993) had a winning record vs. Graf in the 1990s prior to the stabbing of Monica Seles in April 1993, including the only match Navratilova and Graf played against each other in a Grand Slam singles match during the 1990s.

    Seles, of course, as a teenager in the years 1990 through 1993, had a winning record vs. Graf as well before a jealous Steffi Graf fan stabbed Seles in the back with a knife.

    No way Steffi Graf is the same league as Navratilova in tennis history when you consider the truth of Steffi Graf, Gunther Parche, Martina Navratilova and Monica Seles in the years 1990-1993.
     
    #84
  35. VikingSamurai

    VikingSamurai Banned

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    ooooooooooooooo:-D h, Condi is gonna be p.i.s.s.e.d at you !!
     
    #85

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