Which current WTA forehand matches the ATP pattern best?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dominikk1985, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    #1
  2. El Nino

    El Nino Rookie

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    Svetlana Is another one.
     
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  3. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    yes, but she could use that left arm and shoulder more couldn't she.
     
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  4. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    and also her legs, she is just rotating her core and shoulders without a lot of leg drive. svetlana is also a good call she doesn't have that typical russian/czech flat FH you can see she learned in spain.

    kivitova is really funny as she is hitting about 70-80% reverse FHs (almost 100 on CC shots). no other girl on tour uses at this often but still she hits huge and relatively flat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
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  5. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    I like Christina Mchale's forehand. She can really dictate play with her forehand. Her take-back is pretty compact.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgCQx6IvsM

    Kuznetsova has amazing strokes off both sides. I think her backhand is the perfect model for a two-hander. Very compact takeback on both sides, handles pace well, amazing power off both sides. Seems like she's kind of a head case though. With her strokes she should be in the top ten all the time.
     
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  6. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    ChrisMac's forehand looks like a hybrid cross between WTA and ATP forehands. She let's go early, mainly using a WTA takeback, and uses little WW finish compared to most guys.
     
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  7. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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  8. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    I saw an interview with Bethanie Mattek-Sands where she talks about retooling her forehand to model it more on federer's. She talked about how much extension outward he gets, and trying to copy that in her own forehand.

    I think Mattek-Sands has a nice forehand

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1E7aoh0KMY
     
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  9. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    It's nice but cocks her wrist back during takeback and keeps it locked all the way through. kind of an advaneced WTA swing. not atp
     
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  10. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    I guess it does look a little mechanical compared to the fluidity of a federer or Nadal. Still a nice sound forehand. There's only one Roger.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
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  11. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    McHale's looks pretty nice. So does the 'new' Li Na form.
     
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  12. FrisbeeFool

    FrisbeeFool Rookie

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    Really good side view of Mchale. I think you're going to see some stretch-shortening action, Cheetah.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDvqo4yJOzg&feature=endscreen&NR=1

    Her takeback reminds me of Verdasco, with how relaxed her forearm or grip or whatever looks. I don't know the terminology. the racket looks loose, then it really lays back when she starts to go forward.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
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  13. Lovingit007

    Lovingit007 New User

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    Mchale's forehand can still improve if she finishes with palm almost downfacing. stop the video at .37 and .38 and .39. you can see how her palm starts to face up and the hitting racquet face starts to face the side fence. in order to keep the hitting face almost down facing she has to slightly change the grip and then we are talking Federer...
     
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  14. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    it's not the grip. it's her lack or little use of internal shoulder rotation.

    edit: she seems to more isr in the above match play vid
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
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  15. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    fed doesn't use internal rotation to accelerate either:). with a straight arm the arm IR is only creating spin but not forward acceleration. to use IR of the arm to accelerate the hand forward you need an elbow angle of about 90 degrees.

    BTW I think that things like taking back pronated or neutral doesn't make a difference at all. the takeback is really overrated. It is just important that you are not totally pre setting the supination of the forearm because you want to start the forwards swing with a little supination (the racket drop) before you reverse that to pronation.

    but whether you start that initial supination for a neutral position or pronate in the takeback really doesn't make a real difference.
     
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  16. Cheetah

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    OK but we were talking about the finish not acceleration.
    And isr does increase rhs no matter how you use it be it straight / bent / extreme or conservative.

    The neutral takeback also affects things other than pronation. Such as wrist extension / deviation not to mention putting your arm in a relaxed state which can't happen as effectively as when using a non-neutral takeback as I'm sure you'll agree.

    What do you mean by 'not pre-setting' the supination? Sounds like you are saying your arm should be in a pronated position which you said doesn't make a difference.

    what do you mean by 'racquet drop'?

    And if done correctly, or in this context of the 'modern atp fh', you don't 'start supination'. The supination happens as a result of the stretching coming out of the pronated position. If you manually put the arm in a supinated position then no stretching will occur.
    The takeback into the position just before foreward swing affects a lot of things.

    Show me just one video of a top 50 male pro not using a neutral takeback and then we'll discuss. Otherwise not overrated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
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  17. taurussable

    taurussable Professional

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    stosur current and henin past.
     
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  18. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i see the same thing

    how bout guys who hits like girls? chardy, soderling
     
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  19. chrischris

    chrischris Hall of Fame

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    Arvidsson , Stosur and Hantuchova.
     
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  20. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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  21. Geology_Rocks!

    Geology_Rocks! Semi-Pro

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    I think Mchale's FH looks like delpo's.

    Sod FH is ATP, no takeback supination.
     
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  22. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    OK, let me revive this thread :)

    Today the streaming finally starts at New Haven 2014:

    Wednesday (20 August)
    Connecticut Open

    19:00 EST Stosur - Bouchard (WTA New Haven)

    I am going to watch this match also to have a direct comparison of their FH technique:

    - Bouchard, using her own variety of the WTA technique

    - Stosur, together with other GS winners such as Henin and Schiavone, and with Christina McHale, being one of the few female players using the ATP FH technique

    You may have a look at this very instructive video:

    ATP vs WTA Forehand
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0uCQBiH2Ko

    where it is claimed that the extra power allowed by the ATP technique is one of the reasons why Henin, while being so small, still was able to successfully confront the larger players.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2014
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  23. caugas

    caugas Semi-Pro

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    Stosur has a straight-up modern forehand, not Wta, IT'S BUTTER
     
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  24. mbm0912

    mbm0912 Professional

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    Stosur isn't very far from having all ATP patterns, even girlfriends :oops:
     
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  25. Bendex

    Bendex Professional

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    Has anyone had any success teaching a girl the ATP forehand? I'm not convinced it is the right thing to do.
     
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  26. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    See that video, is quite good.
     
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  27. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Svetlana Knetsova has a tremendous FH. I watched her play recently and she just dictated with the FH. She was able to hit high deep balls with lots of topspin that drove her opponent back and able to hit lower topspin shots with more pace when needed. Might be the best FH on WTA when it is on.
     
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  28. caugas

    caugas Semi-Pro

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  29. mbm0912

    mbm0912 Professional

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    You would think Sam would win more matches, as masculine as she is.
     
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  30. caugas

    caugas Semi-Pro

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    I'm a big fan, love her kick and wear she wears those cool glasses. she is fit for sure.
     
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  31. Bendex

    Bendex Professional

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    I saw that video a long time ago. I also saw the video where he tries to convert a young girl. Since he hasn't shown any updates, I assume he wasn't successful.

    I think the few women who do use it are quite fast twitch/masculine. I haven't seen any high level pre-teens with ATP forehands. I think the lack of explosive power is the limiting factor, particularly the forearm rotation at contact.
     
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  32. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Saw Stosur playing a practice set on Center Court during Rogers Cup with Lisicky: both are amazing athletic specimens, but the springing steps, flexing knees, bouncing gait she has you see only in the best of them: thoroughbreds trained to perfection.

    And that forehand is her main weapon, no doubt.
     
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  33. caugas

    caugas Semi-Pro

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    I wish I was at the rogers cup
     
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  34. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    she is not a good natural athlete. she has great strokes and is also very lean and fit but she is not fast or agile.

    for her style of play with a lot of running around the BH she would need more footspeed.

    plus she is a little bit of a headcase.
     
    #34
  35. Yaz

    Yaz Rookie

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    Jamie Hampton has a more traditional forehand - eastern grip, straight arm through contact

    [​IMG]
     
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  36. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Well, Samantha Stosur offered tonight, during the match with Eugenie Bouchard in New Haven, an impressive argument and confirmation that she is the best WTA player using the ATP forehand.
     
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  37. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    I have to agree. Physically, she certainly looks the part of a great athlete but her movement is very average at best, possibly below average.
     
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  38. President

    President Legend

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    But that racquet head speed on the serve and forehand shows that her lifting in the gym is paying off in some way, at least. No other WTA player comes even close in terms of raw power except Serena.
     
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  39. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    I don't think arm strength really helps that much although I do think core strength comes into play, it's not just about teaching technique. I've actually hit with a woman who had as close to an ATP style forehand as I've seen outside of the pro level. She was around a low women's Open level. Strong woman, but definitely not built like stosur. Anyway, she said her power came from her core, not her arms. Personally I think it's probably both. Either way, I don't think many women are strong enough to use an ATP FH. I think most women need to engage their legs and hips in the stroke and maybe the classic WTA FH works better in doing that.

    People here place way too much emphasis on this ATP FH technique. IMO, if I were to take any forehand on the WTA it would be Ana Ivanovic's, which is classic WTA. Powerful and also reliable. Also, it's a far prettier stroke than an ATP FH which I think is kinda ugly.

    All evidence indicates that the WTA forehand works. Not sure why everyone here thinks it needs to be changed.
     
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  40. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    Is stosur really that muscular or is she just extremely lean? of course she has very defined muscles but she is not really "big" like serena, kvitova, lisicki or Davenport.

    she is muscular of course but still has a rather small Frame.
     
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  41. caugas

    caugas Semi-Pro

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    shes a fitness freak heard this somewhere its not a bad thing she reminds me of a triathlon runner
     
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  42. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    It's extremely hard for a woman to maintain that level of muscularity and hit on the tour. If all she did was hit the weight room and drink protein drinks - you are looking at a potential natural. But she plays tennis on the tour..

    It's likely that just like a lot of other female tour players she uses chemical help. Most people finger Martina N as the woman who really made people sit up and notice the power of steroids for female tennis players. So personally I am not calling Stosur out on it. She is a fitness freak - I do think she has chemical help - but she is not alone in this - just the most visible example. I remember all the people defending Barry Bonds and saying that he just lifted a lot..hehe.

    Now the use seems to be fairly widespread on both the women's and men's side. It's just more obvious in some women.

    But you do not need to do steroids to hit an ATP style forehand - and quite few women do hit them. The problem here is most people don't know what an ATP forehand is really like..

    It's not grip - its not how pretty it is - its not if you like the player or not - its not how heavy the topspin is - its not straight arm or double bend..

    Bouchard for example hits a ATP style forehand. She is not particularly muscular.
     
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  43. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    errani and stosur also hit ATP FHs and they are very small.
     
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  44. Bendex

    Bendex Professional

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    Stosur was always a very strong tomboy. I don't think she would need PEDs.
     
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  45. Lukhas

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    @GuyClinch: Well I think it's just tennis players and Stosur being Stosur. Monfils feasts on roast beef, loves to play TopSpin4 and he looks like he's gaining muscle by simply watching the weights in the training room. On the other hand, two players that got busted for drug use were Sesil Karatantchev and Petr Korda. Both were extremely lean. Tsonga has to train very heavily not to gain weight. And so on. I watched Athletics European Championships. Female runners dwarf most touring pros; all they do is running and lifting. And not only in athletics. EDIT: Actually even college female runners dwarf touring WTA pros, and honestly I do not believe they'd be able to afford good quality doping program. Maybe they do dope, but I doubt it would be without side-effects even on the short term.

    I do believe there is/was/will be some drug uses on the tour; but I don't believe muscle mass is a good indicator of drug use or not in tennis. In fact, especially in tennis where high muscle mass doesn't have as much use as in other sports.
    EDIT2: Personally if Stosur is doping hardcore, given her results I honestly don't want what she's having. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2014
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  46. President

    President Legend

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    I guess you meant to say Henin? Stosur is certainly not very small, I stood right next to her just two weeks ago and she is definitely abnormally muscular and defined for a woman, very rare to see outside of bodybuilding competitions. Henin and Errani were/are very fit players though, very strong for their size and not chunky and out of shape like players like Azarenka and Kvitova. They are muscular and strong.
     
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  47. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    I meant schiavonne. got the names mixed up.;)
     
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  48. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    kuznetsova has really good RHS on her FH.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWefL1JNiRE

    I think she got that technique because she moved to spain when she was like 12 or so. otherwise should probably would have the classic "eastern european style" like sharapova, ivanovic or azarenka.
     
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  49. wannabe good

    wannabe good Rookie

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    #fail both you and Bouchard's attempt at forehand.
     
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  50. wannabe good

    wannabe good Rookie

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