Which GOAT candidate had the weakest competition

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by illusions30, Oct 17, 2013.

?

Which GOAT candidate had the weakest competition

  1. Laver

    14.8%
  2. Rosewall

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Gonzales (PANCHO)

    9.9%
  4. Federer

    38.3%
  5. Nadal

    19.8%
  6. Sampras

    14.8%
  7. Borg

    2.5%
  1. illusions30

    illusions30 Banned

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    There was a poll for the strongest so I figured there should be one for the weakest too. Which GOAT candidate (and per previous request I am adding Rosewall) had the weakest competition.
     
    #1
  2. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Why did you include Nadal in the list,Prof? :lol:
     
    #2
  3. TheF1Bob

    TheF1Bob Banned

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    monfed

    10monfeds
     
    #3
  4. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Went for Laver, most of his titles came in the pro ranks with split fields with only Rosewall for serious competition (Gonzales was strong but declining and Hoad was injured).
     
    #4
  5. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    Which poster has the weakest threads ever???
     
    #5
  6. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    NatF, You "forgot" Gimeno. Gonzalez was so much declining that he beat both Laver and Rosewall at the 1966 Wembley BBC 2 event, beat Roche (No.2) at the 1968 US Open, Rosewall (twice), Ashe (6-0,6-2,6-4); Newcombe (6-1,6-2) in 1969, Laver thrice in 1970, also Newcombe and Roche in 1970...
     
    #6
  7. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    Federer- Roddick,Hewitt, Baghaditis, Gonzales, Agassi on his last leg, Nadal before puberty, Davydenko, Fat Boy Nalbandian, Blake,and Bar Fly Safin who never showed up to play.

    Fed had it more difficult later on when Nadal, Nole, Murray finally came into their own.. But had it BEYOND easy from 2003-2007 when he amassed the majority of his accomplishments anyways


    When Roddick or 35 year old Sciatica ridden Agassi is your main competition that says it all.

    Hell, Agassi proves how HORRIBLE it was. The guy was a decade (or over) older than Fed's main contemporaries slowed down with a bad back and still beating all these guys, with a high ranking, and getting far in tournaments.

    Old Agassi would have been blown off the court if he played at that age (with a bad back) back in the 80s, 90s or today
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
    #7
  8. tennisaddict

    tennisaddict G.O.A.T.

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    Jeopardy question - Who won 5 majors beating Pioline, Todd Martin and grandpa Chang ?
     
    #8
  9. swizzy

    swizzy Semi-Pro

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    fed is and was awesome. but it is possible that he wasn't as truly remarkable as I used to think now with all of it in the rearview mirror and the list of so-so people he dominated
     
    #9
  10. illusions30

    illusions30 Banned

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    I picked Gonzales as I dont think the mid 50s had much in the way of competition for him until Hoad and Rosewall turned pro.
     
    #10
  11. Indio

    Indio Rookie

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    Don't tell me you buy 90's Clay's typical BS? As far as I know, he's never supported with data anything he posts about the so-called weak era. If half of what he said was factual, guys like Roddick, Hewitt, etc. would have been lucky to have made a living on the Challenger circuit.
     
    #11
  12. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    illusions30, Gonzalez had Kramer, Segura, Sedgman, Trabert, Rosewall, Hoad, Laver, Gimeno, Newcombe, Roche, Ashe, Okker, Smith, Connors...
     
    #12
  13. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    A few names - Frank Sedgman, You could also add Segura, (and in the early 50's) Kramer, Trabert
     
    #13
  14. 1477aces

    1477aces Hall of Fame

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    sampras the stats alos back this up
     
    #14
  15. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    10 characters
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
    #15
  16. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Wow this was a deep comment and one that was hard to admit.

    Respect.
     
    #16
  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Omg !! You have big balls!!

    Fat boy Nalbandian.....hahahaha....that was great !
     
    #17
  18. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    Federer by a fair margin. Then probably Tilden and Budge then after that Nadal.
     
    #18
  19. YaoPau

    YaoPau Rookie

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    I think it's Laver. He certainly could've made it difficult on himself had he turned pro earlier, but Laver I think will be known for dominating 1966-1970. Rosewall was still pretty darn good at the time, but everyone on the list had to contend with at least one other great player, and this version of Rosewall was age 32+.

    Federer had a relatively easy run early on, but with Fed's longevity being better than most, and these past 5 years being so stacked up top, you could argue that Fed's overall competition has been average overall.

    Sampras is the big wildcard IMO. On one hand there were a ton of good players in his generation, but if you're a GOAT candidate, don't you take the career where you don't have to face any other GOAT candidates? Agassi is in the discussion I guess, but he was so inconsistent that he wasn't the constant threat that a Connors/McEnroe/Federer/Nadal/Djokovic/Rosewall/Laver/Gonzales were in their primes that the other candidates had to deal with.

    So the more I think about it, I'd go Laver or Sampras, with Gonzales in the "who knows" category. Rosewall, Borg, Nadal should have a combined 0 votes IMO, would like to hear from those who voted for them so far.
     
    #19
  20. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    My guess would be the candidate who came back from debilitating injuries and several month long breaks to dominate the tour and clean up all titles in sight, like he had never been away. Must have had the weakest competition ever to be able to do that.
     
    #20
  21. Crose

    Crose Professional

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    Yeah but my guess is that he's just a ridiculously good tennis player. Or in other words, a GOAT candidate.
     
    #21
  22. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    Umm..well, if he was that exceptional, he would have dominated the field much more when healthy and in his prime (more multi-slam years, more time at #1 than any of his competition.) That obviously is not the case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
    #22
  23. Anti-Fedal

    Anti-Fedal Professional

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    Why did you vote for Borg?
     
    #23
  24. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I did actually forget Gimeno, I assume your speech marks are meant to imply I did it on purpose? Eitherway Gimeno doesn't elevate the period too much IMO. Split fields are inherently weaker than full ones and Laver certainly had less competition than Rosewall who faced Gonzalez and Hoad at their best as well as Laver/Gimeno. I think the field of the 50's was also stronger than that of the 60's, so I rate Gonzalez higher too.

    I don't think the competition was weak, I just find it the weakest.

    Agassi was better in 03-05 then in most of Pete's prime. His back only gave him real trouble in 06, at the USO even in 05 it was fine up until the last set of the final. He missed so much time in the 90's his mileage was alot less. Funny how you're claim Federer had it easy with Agassi but the early 70's had 30 year old Laver and 35+ Rosewall at really high rankings. Connors was #7 in 1988 when he was 36 BTW.

    Full of crap as usual.
     
    #24
  25. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    is this even seriously a question ??? Fed had a joke field with the likes of grandfather 35 years old Agassi with the likes of hewitt and roddick. The guy only won RG because of nadal injury and that says it all. His fans with multiple accaunts can create atmosphere like people indeed believe he is goat.The reality is he is way behind Laver Sampras Nadal and Borg. Fed certainly is Margeret Court of men tennis.Thats it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
    #25
  26. Russeljones

    Russeljones G.O.A.T.

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    Laver's were practically pub players, the majority of them.
     
    #26
  27. Morj

    Morj Semi-Pro

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    Why are people voting Federer? He had to deal with prime Nadal, prime Djokovic, and prime Murray for 5 of his slams and it was during their primes that he broke the no. 1 record
     
    #27
  28. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Or maybe he was just that good?

    But then again he didn't play hall of famers like Philopusis , Baghdatis or Nalbandian.
     
    #28
  29. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    he did play though the goats puerta and berdych
     
    #29
  30. mistik

    mistik Hall of Fame

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    yeah he beat Fed and Murray before beating them.:twisted:
     
    #30
  31. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    He was so good when in his prime and healthy that he couldn't even stay the top ranked player longer than his competitors or win multiple slams for two years in a row. Tell me more.

    Nalbandian who ? You mean the same guy , who in his prime, fed a bagel , baguette and a breadstick to your hero in the first two matches they played ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2013
    #31
  32. illusions30

    illusions30 Banned

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    One odd thing is Nadal and Federer were 1st and 2nd on my poll of strongest competition, yet Federer who was 2nd on that poll is also 1st on the poll for weakest competition thus far, and Nadal who was 1st on that poll is 3rd on the poll for weakest competition. I guess it is one extreme or other with them, or maybe alot of posters arent even familiar with any players before Sampras at the earliest anyway, so wouldnt even have a clue either way on most of these.
     
    #32
  33. Who Am I?

    Who Am I? Banned

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    Definitely Nadal. His only 2 impressive slam wins were 2008 Wimby and 2009 AO. Both of his US Open victories happen because of cake draws and a tired and out of sorts Novak Djokovic waiting in the finals.

    All his FO titles came by a virtue of beating a grass court specialist and a hard court specialist. Which great clay courter did he beat to win any of his FO titles? Oh, that's right, Ferrer. Lol! At least Federer defeated grass court specialists in Murray, Roddick and Hewitt to win most of his Wimbledon titles. Nadal didn't have to contend with any clay courter for his RG.

    And let's not even talk about his cake Wimbledon 2010 triumph, where he had to play his pigeon and biggest fanboy in the final who did his dirty work by taking out two of his main rivals. It's a classic example of a servant repaying his master only to be taken out himself by the master in the very end.
     
    #33
  34. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    I voted Gonzales.
     
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  35. mud volcano

    mud volcano Banned

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    L Rosol , F. VerdSco , Sahfin
     
    #35
  36. illusions30

    illusions30 Banned

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    Rating Agassi's better years in small groups I would say:

    Best years: 1995, 1999
    Secondary best years: 1994, 1990, 2001, 2002
    Pretty good years: 1991, 1996, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005
    Bad years: 1993, 1997, 1998

    So if we consider Pete's prime as 93-99 I would say Agassi in 2003-2005 was below 3 of those years (94, 95, 99), about on par with 1 (1996), and much stronger than 3 (1993, 1997, 1998 ). So in that respect it would be about on par with the average, much better than some, although far below say the late 94/95 and 99 Agassi's.
     
    #36
  37. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I agree for the most part although I would put 1994 into the pretty good years considering his results were only good for half the year. I'd rate 2003 higher than 1994 personally, possibly even over 2002 considering he won a slam in 2003. You missed out 1992 as well which I'd place in pretty good or secondary best.
     
    #37
  38. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne Banned

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    Russeljones, As a HallofFamer you should study tennis history a bit more careful.
     
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  39. Indio

    Indio Rookie

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    For the record, Agassi's first big year was 1988. He finished the year ranked #3, had a record of 63-11 (second only to his 73-9 of 1995), and won six tournaments.
    I'd say that 2003 was clearly better than 1990, and possibly roughly equal to the other three Secondary best years.
    1998 wasn't a total disaster. Yes, the results in majors were weak, but he did OK in the other events, winning five tournaments.
     
    #39
  40. Kenshin

    Kenshin Semi-Pro

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    This is not true at all. Coincedence or not, even Federer's last grandslam wins were when Nadal was injured.
     
    #40
  41. sbengte

    sbengte Legend

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    O rly ? By that count all of Nadal's non-clay wins were because Fed was old and Delpo, Djoko, Murray were injured
     
    #41
  42. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Nadal

    10char
     
    #42
  43. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    who cares about nadal? djokovic was no. 1 not nadal. federer beat the world no. 1 on his way to victory. it cannot get anymore impressive than that.

    all of a sudden it is a blemush on fed's win nadal could not reach him. Federer does not meet nadal>>>>> he was scared what a wuss; nadal does not meet federer>>>> federer is so lucky.

    **** logic at its best
     
    #43
  44. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    This.

    10 dr. Fuentes
     
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  45. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    World no. 1 and defending champion. Definitely the toughest opponent there was at Wimbledon 2012.
     
    #45
  46. jg153040

    jg153040 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes in terms of level of play. But Rafa is such a bad matchup for Roger that I think he is the tougher opponent for him.

    Rafa at 70% is tougher for Roger than Nole playing 95%. RG 2011 proves this.
     
    #46
  47. mike danny

    mike danny Legend

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    it does not matter. becoming world no.1 by beating the world no.1 en route to winning a slam is the most impressive achievement
     
    #47
  48. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Let's talk about a mid 30's Lendl straight setting the number 1 ranked at the time peak Sampras on a fast hard court.
     
    #48
  49. Who Am I?

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    Who gives a crap about Nadal? Federer beat the guy who trashed your boy in the last years final on his way to the final, where he met and defeated a new and improved Murray. That's more impressive than beating Nadal. And he has already beaten Nadal twice at Wimbledon so has nothing to prove to anyone.
     
    #49
  50. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Perhaps ironically in this case, Fed wins every poll (regardless of its content).
     
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