Which rivalry is greater? Fedal or Djokodal?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by MichaelNadal, Jul 19, 2013.

?

The greater rivalry is........

  1. Federer-Nadal

    64.7%
  2. Djokovic-Nadal

    35.3%
  1. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Which rivalry do you think is greater? Fedal is pretty much over, but still, it was incredible at times and brought us some great matches and amazing moments. It's really a close call for me, I'd like to hear what other people think before deciding because im on the fence.

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    #1
  2. 6-3 6-0

    6-3 6-0 Hall of Fame

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    Fedal by miles ... although some would argue NDjokovic-RNadal matches are more unpredictable and of similar age range.
    But the quality of Fedal matches were more as evidenced by their constrasting styles of play.
     
    #2
  3. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    Lots of info here, but really interesting stuff:

    Nadal has stopped them both 5 times each at the FO.

    Djokovic-Nadal:

    Only male pair in Open Era history to have met in each of the four Grand Slam finals
    Only male pair in Open Era history to have met in four Grand Slam finals in a row
    Record of 10 finals played against each other in Masters 1000 (shared with Federer-Nadal)
    Record of 19 matches played against each other in Masters 1000
    Longest Grand Slam final in Open Era history (at the 2012 Australian Open final)
    Longest match in Australian Open history
    Longest ATP three-set match of the Open Era with tiebreak in last set (at the 2009 Madrid Masters)
    Longest ATP Masters 1000 three-set match of the Open Era (at the 2009 Madrid Masters)
    Most consecutive defeats of the world number 1 in a season by the same player (No2/No3 Djokovic def No1 Nadal 5 times in 2011)
    Latest finish for an uninterrupted Grand Slam match (2012 Australian Open Final)
    Latest finish for an uninterrupted Grand Slam final (2012 Australian Open)
    This rivalry is ranked third in most matches played in the Open Era (only behind Lendl-McEnroe and Connors-Lendl)
    Only rivalry to take place in nine of ten ATP Masters Series tournaments (played in Hamburg but missing Shanghai)



    Federer-Nadal:
    From the 2003 Wimbledon Championships to the 2011 French Open, Federer and Nadal have won an unprecedented 26 out of 32 Grand Slam titles. In this time, both men have also completed the Career Grand Slam (Nadal has also completed the Career Golden Slam by winning the 2008 Beijing Olympics).
    From Nadal's first Grand Slam victory at the 2005 French Open until the 2011 French Open, Federer and Nadal had won 22 of 25 Grand Slam titles (12 for Federer, 10 for Nadal). The exceptions were the 2008 and 2011 Australian Open, won by Novak Djokovic, and the 2009 US Open, won by Juan Martín del Potro.
    Federer and Nadal are the only No. 1 and No. 2 pair in the open era to contest the French Open and Wimbledon men's finals back to back in a calendar year. They are also the only pair in the history of tennis to contest both of these finals back to back for three consecutive years (2006–08 ).
    In the history of tennis, Federer and Nadal are the only pair to face each other in eight Grand Slam singles finals (2006–08 Wimbledon, 2006–08, 2011 French Open, 2009 Australian Open) in the span of 6 years. This broke the previous record of seven finals set by Bill Tilden and William Johnston (1919–25 U.S. Championships). Their match at the 2012 Australian Open also marked a record 10th time two players had faced each other in Grand Slam men's singles matches, tying with the record set by John McEnroe and Ivan Lendl.[66] This record has now been surpassed by Federer-Djokovic when they met for the 11th time in a Grand Slam at the 2012 Wimbledon semi-finals.
    Federer and Nadal are the only No. 1 and No. 2 pair to win 11 consecutive Grand Slam singles tournaments between them (from the 2005 French Open to the 2007 US Open). In this period, Federer won 3 consecutive titles at both Wimbledon and the US Open and 2 consecutive titles at the Australian Open, while Nadal won 3 consecutive French Open titles.
    During the open era, only two pairs of players have played each other in the final of the same Grand Slam singles tournament three consecutive years: Becker–Edberg (1988–90 Wimbledon) and Federer-Nadal (2006–08 French Open and 2006–08 Wimbledon).
    Federer and Nadal are the only pair to win at least four consecutive finals at three different Grand Slams during the same period (2005–08 French Open for Nadal, 2003–07 Wimbledon and 2004–08 US Open for Federer).
    From the 2004 Wimbledon Championships to the 2011 French Open, the pair appeared in 25 of 28 Grand Slams finals, winning all of them except the 2005 Australian Open, the 2008 Australian Open, the 2011 Australian Open, and the 2009 US Open.
    Federer and Nadal have combined to win 8 consecutive Wimbledon (2003–10) and 9 consecutive French Open (2005–13).
    Federer and Nadal won the French Open, Wimbledon and US Open trio for 4 consecutive years (2005–08 ).
     
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  4. Eragon

    Eragon Banned

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    Djokovic-Nadal. It feels more like a real rivalry to be the second best player of their era. Also, they're both of the same generation, unlike Federer-Nadal. But Federer-Nadal has given better quality matches, at least till 2009.
     
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  5. kalyan4fedever

    kalyan4fedever Hall of Fame

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    Even though i am federer fan, i have to agree djokovic -Nadal is better , its almost same in fed-nadal match with fed mentally collapsing before the match making some weird unforced errors and nadal directing top spin balls to feds backhand
     
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  6. Tenez101

    Tenez101 Hall of Fame

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    Djokomuzz will eclipse both.
     
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  7. MonkeyBoy

    MonkeyBoy Professional

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    Fedal was entertaining when Nadal was the only player who could take it to Federer in his prime — in time it has become way too one sided.

    Djokodal is more dynamic at the moment.
     
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  8. firepanda

    firepanda Professional

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    Federer Nadal has a certain aura about it. But I do think Djokovic Nadal is more interesting.
     
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  9. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    Djokodal's is far more epic, more like Sampras-Agassi than Federer-Nadal which has always basically been a 2:1 advantage Nadal. Djokovic has faced Nadal more times and the court type seems to heavily swing the advantage, so they have seen a lot more fluctuations and drama. How close were the last two five set slam matches, and how identical did they seem?

    Federer's greatness comes from completely outside of his rivalry with Nadal, that's for sure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
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  10. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Federer vs Nalbandian would've been the most riveting rivalry of the open era if Nalby would've not given up after the 2003 USO and had been more bullheaded/committed(whatever you wanna call it). They're the two of the most talented players of the current generation(Nalby>Roddick too imo) and would've given us incredible matches at Wimby and the HC slams.
    Just like Ralph-Coria would've been the most rivetting clay rivalry of the open era if Coria hadn't had his 2004 RG meltdown.

    Currently, Federer-Djokovic is the best rivalry in the big 4. The other pairings have some or the other defect in them:

    Djoker-Ralph is interesting because of the consequences moreso for Ralph(like if Djoker had beaten Ralph at RG 2013 semi,it would've effectively terminated Ralph's slam chase,unfortunately Pascal Maria robbed Novak of a win) but tenniswise its ultimately a grindfest

    Djoker- Murray - baseline ping pong

    Federer - Ralph - BH abuse

    Federer - Murray - This one would've been more interesting had both of them played at their respective peaks
     
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  11. monfed

    monfed Guest

    EXACTLY! Nadal fans desperately try to club Federer with Nadal by using the term "Fedal", as if Ralph has an era of his own. :lol:
     
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  12. Fedex

    Fedex Hall of Fame

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    The DjokoDjoko rivalry has to be the greatest.

    When Djokovic plays himself, nothing else can compare.
     
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  13. BVSlam

    BVSlam Rookie

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    Close call, but I'm going with Federer-Nadal. It's a more significant rivalry in the sport, I think. Nowadays it's not so great anymore, as they rarely play each other when they're both in good form and playing well and with Nadal now winning pretty much every time he's not in is WTF'11 form, the only result between the two that could still stir some things up would be if somehow Fed beats Nadal in a best of 5 again.

    Djokovic-Nadal is definitely more even though, and Nadal trying to hold off the new Djokovic is pretty great to see.
     
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  14. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    The same could be said for the Fed-Fed rivalry.

    And for Nad-Nad for that matter. Although I am not sure how will Nad handle lefty.
     
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  15. dgbeclih600

    dgbeclih600 Rookie

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    Really!!!! how plz explain?
     
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  16. Chico

    Chico Banned

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    Did you watch the match? Nadal didn't win it. Pascal Maria with his atrocious line calls and officials who refused to water extremely dry and unplayable court because it suits Nadal's game, won it for him and robbed Djokovic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
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  17. VoodooChild24

    VoodooChild24 Rookie

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    Pascal robbed Djoker of FO? If Djoko stopped shanking overhead smashes to the net he would have won it.
     
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  18. Sim

    Sim Semi-Pro

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    Didn't you hear? Nadal was playing on a watered court while Djokovic was not. Djokovic just could not take Nadal's intense topspin. :shock:
     
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  19. dgbeclih600

    dgbeclih600 Rookie

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    Hahaha i watched and recorded the match. it is still on my DVR, look i like novak nothing against him he played great but I'm sorry the kids i coach can hit better overhead smash and not touch the net. everyone on this forum knows novak lost cause of the overhead smash.
     
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  20. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Umm the courts were not watered at the beginning of the 5th set and they weren't watered in the 1st and 3rd sets either. Guess who won those sets?

    And FYI the courts in the previous matches were watered in the fifth set. Why the heck wasn't it watered at the beginning of the fifth set? The court was clearly not upto par in the fifth. Absolutely pathetic officiating if I've ever seen any. Hilariously unbelievable.

    As if this is not enough,Novak got a time violation while he was serving at deuce at an absolutely critical juncture of the match in the 5th set(think it was the 8th game,Novak was serving at 4-3) which possibly spoilt his concentration and probably led to that rash overhead. In contrast,Nadal who is a repeat offender got a point penalty when he was serving at 5-1 in the third when it absolutely didn't hurt him at all.

    Nadal also called a ball out in the third game of the 3rd set which landed in and Pascal Maria called it out when hawkeye showed the ball was clearly in which resulted in Novak getting broken and eventually losing the set. So,Nadal cheated there, he should just hand his trophy to Pascal,they could both go on a cruise together for a job well done.

    Sorry, Novak got robbed any unbiased person can see this,end of story.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
    #20
  21. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Too good.

    Novak fumbled numerous overheads and actually planted himself into the net like a newbie and you have the audacity to say that he was cheated and deserved to win? He also hit 13 winners to Nadal's 22 in the final set so again, how did he deserve to win?


    Just to show you what a "friend" Pascal Maria has been to Nadal historically:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKMbm1SkPS8

    And anyway, wouldn't the establishment(and especially the FO guys) want to go against another Nadal win in FO? Surely a career slam for Djokovic would be a more interesting story for the ATP than ANOTHER Nadal RG win.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2013
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  22. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    In terms of actually being a contest that either player can win, Nadal vs Djokovic is better. However despite some amazing points, it all gets a bit over the top and boring when every rally is 25 shot and over type affair. Fed vs Nadal is more entertaining but predictable in the outcome. case in point Rome 2006. The match was absolutely sick, but of course Fed blew a couple of forehands and lost the match. Nadal remained strong.

    The best combination of unpredictability and entertainment is federer vs Djokovic. Close matches full of great attacking play, hard to call before hand. sadly too many of these have been semi finals, especially in slams where they have met 11 times but only in one final. crappy draws.
     
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  23. dgbeclih600

    dgbeclih600 Rookie

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    hahahaha, Really so what you are saying is the officiating was the reason nadal won and novak lost wow that's your reasoning bad officiating. you know what if that's what you think that's your opinion i cant change that, you must be on dogfood for thinking that way seriously what kind of tennis fan are you if you are unhappy with the officials at roland garros or pascal then its very simple don't watch you fruitcake.
     
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  24. namelessone

    namelessone Legend

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    Pretty much. As far as Fed is concerned:

    He has won 33% of all the matches he has played with Rafa(10-20).
    He has won 55% of all the matches he has played with Djoko(16-13).
    He has won 45% of all the matches he has played with Murray(9-11).

    I like all combinations of the top 4 except Djoko-Murray. Nadal has his lefty factor and Fed has wicked versatility so you know that they bring something special to the table whereas Djoko and Andy have games that are all too similar.

    As for which rivalry is greater, I still say Fedal because of historical importance. Djokodal is starting to gain ground though:

    Fedal have met 10 times in slams, 8 times in finals.
    Djokodal have met 10 times in slams, 5 times in finals.

    Fedal have met 15 times in MS, 10 of those being finals.
    Djokodal have met 20 times in MS, 10 of those being finals.
     
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  25. zam88

    zam88 Professional

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    Djokavic and Nadal's primes have pretty well lined up... Nadal reached his peak in 2010 with his 3 slams on 3 surfaces... But then Djoker promptly started crushing him with regularity in '11 when he hit his peak... and I suspect he will continue to crush him off-clay for the foreseeable future.

    Federer didn't get very many cracks at Nadal on hardcourts as they've never met at the USO and didn't meet at the AO until Federer was past his peakiest of peaks.
     
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  26. ibbi

    ibbi Professional

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    It is OUTSTANDING watching people who laugh at those who claim Nadal only lost for this or that reason coming up with excuse after excuse to try and discredit instances when Nadal wins. Pathetic and hilarious in equal measure.

    As for the rivalries, Federer and Nadal will always be number 1 for me due to how they basically saved men's tennis from becoming a total bore in the middle part of the last decade, for the quality of their matches, the contrast of styles, the clear and obvious respect they have for each other, and for the fact that this was THE rivalry arguably from 2005, at the very least from 2006, right the way through till 2010.

    The Rafa-Novak rivalry was the one for 2011, and for however muh of 2012 Rafa was around for, and despite it being alive and well, the past 12 months suggests that Djokovic-Murray may be becoming THE rivalry in the sport. That's less than 2 years that Rafa and Novak were ultimate rivals. Hardly the stuff of legend. Of course that's just now. Things can change.

    Djokovic and Nadals matches are generally not as good, and in spite of all their accomplishments their face offs do not have the same epic grandeur to them that each new Federer-Nadal match has. I remember after I think it was one of his matches in Australia maybe last year Rafa was asked if you could play one dream match in your career what would it be, and his answer, "with Federer, at Wimbledon". The Novak and Rafa rivalry really just lacks the mighty feeling of significance that the Nike guys have.
     
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  27. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    yeah Murray vs Djokovic is pretty boring, god help us because that's looking the next rivalry...

    really weird to think that Djokovic and Federer have met in slams more than Djokodal or Fedal, yet only one final compared to 5 and 8
     
    #27
  28. Manus Domini

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    Fedal: The two are basically complete opposites, yet almost identical in many ways.
     
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  29. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think I've decided to go with Djokodal on this one.
     
    #29
  30. Morj

    Morj Semi-Pro

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    Federer Nadal have had 3 "great" matches, whereas Djoko-Nadal have only had 2 "great" matches, so ill give Fedal the edge for now. But if Djoko-Nadal have 1 more "great" match, they definetely get the edge.
     
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  31. OKUSA

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    If by Nadal-Djokovic you mean 6 hour baseline bash fest, then no. Well, you could take a nap, eat lunch, go play tennis for 2 hours, and come back and be in the 3rd set and not miss anything
     
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  32. Morj

    Morj Semi-Pro

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    Interestingly enough, i believe the Fed-Djoko rivalry would have been the best, if only they got to play each other in finals instead of semis. '11 FO and '11 USO were classics, with honorable mention to '10 USO as well.

    Fed-Djoko is actually an even bigger contrast than Fedal, because Fed and Nadal actually have similar strengths, they just execute them differently. They both rely on FH's, movement, slices, plus Nadal has a strong net game thats underrated.

    Whereas Fed-djoko its a FH vs BH, Serve vs Return, Net game vs Pure Baseline. And you actually don't know who's going to win, HC's they're both awesome, Clay they're both awesome. Grass is the exception.
     
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  33. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Yeah i pretty much agree there. all their uso matches have been good to watch. But 2011 was extra special.
     
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