Which shot gives you tennis elbow?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Gram Parsons, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. Gram Parsons

    Gram Parsons New User

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    For me it's the serve. I get absolutely no elbow pain on groundstrokes or volleys.

    What shot gives you tennis elbow more?
     
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  2. Evan1225

    Evan1225 Banned

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    The serve

    I've had many problems with tennis elbow in the past, and the serve has so many attributes that sometimes I just can't remember and keep up with it.
     
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  3. Bagdatis toy hippo

    Bagdatis toy hippo Banned

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    Forehand

    Usually when I start a rally, I hit a forehand. Sometimes I bend my elbow through the shot, which gives me elbow pains. But only when starting it off, not when hitting it back.
     
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  4. MTChong

    MTChong Professional

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    It's the serve primarily for me as well.
     
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  5. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    (Duplicate post deleted>
     
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  6. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    The #1 cause of TE (lateral epicondylitis) in tennis is the 1-handed BH. If you guys are getting elbow pain from serves & FHs, it is possible that you are experiencing Golfer's Elbow (medial epicondylitis) or something else. GE is often caused by gripping too tightly on serves & FHs.
     
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  7. ClubHoUno

    ClubHoUno Banned

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    The serve - nothing else comes close!
     
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  8. mr. hardcourt

    mr. hardcourt New User

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    the 1h bh and the string if ur using poly or sumthing harsh
     
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  9. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    Hahaha, Friends, you do know that tennis elbow is GRIP RELATED right?
     
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  10. mr. hardcourt

    mr. hardcourt New User

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    are you for serous
     
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  11. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    Yeah really, I promise. Tennis elbow comes from repetitive gripping. It's a grip-issue.
     
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  12. Octavianus

    Octavianus Rookie

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    -Hitting your one handed backhand with an open stance.
    -Hitting your one handed backhand late.
    -Hitting a one handed backhand and using a head heavy racquet.
     
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  13. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I don't believe this. Some TE can possibly be caused by using the continental grip to hit a lot of topspin 1-handed backhand g'strokes. Another major cause of TE is hitting the 1-handed BH leading with the elbow or using excessive elbow extension to generate power on this stroke instead of starting the kinetic chain with the legs and (a partial) body rotation. This biomechanical flaw is is not grip related.

    On the other hand, GE (golfer's elbow) often is grip related. Squeezing too tightly on the grip or not relaxing the grip between shots (as the follow-thru is finishing) can cause GE on serves, forehands and backhands.
     
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  14. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    It does seem conceivable that these could also put enough stress on the elbow to cause TE. None of these are grip-related either.
     
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  15. ojingoh

    ojingoh Rookie

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    DING DING DING we have a winner =^/
     
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  16. Blask

    Blask Semi-Pro

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    I've struggled w/ TE for 17 years. I really cannot play back to back days without it acting up. It's to the point that when I'm done playing I can't hold my cell phone or grip the steering wheel in my car.

    Without a doubt the main contributor to the TE is my one handed backhand. However, once it starts to hurt, it seems like every shot is adding to it, especially the serve.
     
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  17. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    Friends, if i didn't KNOW I wouldn't have said it. I went to Physical Therapy for it. It's a repeated stress ailment - gripping.
     
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  18. Klatu Verata Necktie

    Klatu Verata Necktie Hall of Fame

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    Could you elaborate, Meg. Is it the size of the grip (1/4 - 5/8), or the manner in which the hand handles the frame (continental, western, eastern)?

    Do you use a one handed backhand?
     
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  19. Fay

    Fay Professional

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    The first coach I took from insisted upon very traditional everything -- I had to take six months off during the winter because of tennis elbow, I should not have listened to her when I noticed joint irritation (live and learn) ... I did a lot of reading during that time off and changed everything about my game .... went to flexible top-of-the-line racquet and Wilson NXT string. Don't have *any* trouble now after changing my strokes and style.

    I do not hit my 1-H BH with a straight/locked elbow so I don't have a problem with tennis elbow with that either ... I had a lesson about a month ago with a woman who said locked joints cause more strain, which confirmed my experimentation. I would rather play tennis for the rest of my life pain-free than play with perfect technique. I have adapted quite well and can hit as hard as I can now which is a lot more fun.

    I have changed my serve a number of times and fortunately have not had trouble with my elbow at all serving.
     
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  20. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    It's just gripping in general. Many people get TE when they've never played a game of tennis in their lives. It's like typists get carpal tunnel, people who grip get tennis elbow. It's just the repetitive motion that stresses the tendons and ligaments.
     
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  21. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Fay - I'm not sure that the straight/locked elbow on the 1-h bh is what causes tennis elbow-if you hit with a standard take back and loop. In my experience, hitting the ball late and not executing a full shoulder turn puts serious strain on the elbow. Someone who is able to get in position and meet the ball in front of their body, will probably never get te-at least from the bh side, regardless of whether or not they lock their elbow.
     
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  22. curvefan

    curvefan New User

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    Agree 100 %.

    I think most players could avoid TE just by developing a 2hbh.

    I know I had to learn the two hander real quick.

    I reverted back to the one hander though, I just could never get comfortable with the two hander.

    I have much better foot work now and am very seldom late in hitting a 1hbh. I think foot work is also a big key in hitting late.
     
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  23. N23

    N23 Rookie

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    For me it's using an extreme Western grip on my forehand. if it's a mis-hit then it's quite noticeable.
     
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  24. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I will accept that clenching or squeezing with the fingers can be one of many factors leading to TE (and GE). From everything I've read & heard from experts, it does not appear to be the one, solitary factor for developing elbow tendinitis. Some sources do list is as one of several causes while many sources do not mention it at all. If gripping is a cause for TE, it is excessive gripping combined with certain other muscle action/movements.

    TE is primarily an overuse of the extensor tendons of the forearm due to excessive dorsiflexion or wrist extension. The use of wrist snap on the serve & other strokes can be a significant factor. Other factors include excessive supination or pronation of the forearm.

    Repeated gripping and relaxation of the fingers is a normal action for tennis players. However, many players with 2-handed BHs that have played regularly for 20 years or more and employ this continual relax-tighten routine, have never experienced TE.

    For the 1-handed BH, the primary reasons for TE is often too much reliance on the forearm and the extension of the arm to generate power (rather than using the legs & body to initiate the power production). Other contributing factors include polyester strings, frame vibration (especially with very light rackets), repeatedly mis-hitting shots (more frame * string vibration), and excessive clenching of the fingers (squeezing too long or too hard).

    For the serve, excessive wrist snap and pronation are likely culprits. Again, excessive gripping action can be a contributing factor here. For the forehand, repeated late preparations and the use of wrist snap (and, possibly, excessive pronation and finger clenching) can lead to TE.

    www.nismat.org/ptcor/tennis_elbow/
     
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  25. Gram Parsons

    Gram Parsons New User

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    Very interesting comments chaps, thank you.

    Without getting too technical then, it seems the serve for me is the primary cause of elbow pain in whatever form that may take - i.e tennis or golfer's elbow.

    It's a worry that according to SystemicAnomaly that the serving action itself, pronation and wrist snap, could generate tennis elbow.

    As I said before, I feel like it could hit ground strokes all day with copper wire strung at 70lbs without experiencing any elbow pain.

    Should i not snap and pronate as much? Use the legs more for power?

    Good comments.
     
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  26. 150mph_

    150mph_ Semi-Pro

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    potential TE causes can be (imho) :

    Using outdate racquet ... drop that 20 year old PS 6.0 85 and switch to a modern stick with more dampening (they didnt spend all that R&D and player endorsements for nothing? benefit of the doubt haha)

    Using stiff strings... for me natural gut is great (expensive) but what about 18G softer polys?

    Lack of muscle... i see a lot of tennis people like chop sticks... weight training -add muscle on the arm ... take stress away from the joints and tendons ... my forearm is huge and i gets compliments from female acquintances and my lover all the time ... and my upper arm is about the size of nadal's right arm (but i am 5'6 so proportionally i am there)... this applies with over all body conditioning as well... do squats and lunges to build up muscle around the knees too... etc. etc.
     
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  27. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I suspect that normal pronation alone would not result in TE or GE. Perhaps excessive pronation with the fingers clenched in a death-grip and/or a hyper-extension of the wrist (laid back) might do it.

    The concept of wrist snap trouble me the most. For many servers, this term implies that wrist is snapped forward to such an extent that it results in the wrist being fully flexed (bent forward) after ball contact. In looking at videos of modern elite servers, the wrist moves from a partially extended postion (prior to contact) to a fairly neutral position at contact. After contact, the wrist does not continue past the neutral position very much, if at all.
     
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  28. Necroblood

    Necroblood Rookie

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    Well I got tennis elbow after receiving my head metallix 4, which was 1/2 inch small on the grip. (I hate head now) Plus it was head heavy so yea I think both the grip and head heaviness of a racquet contribute.
     
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  29. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

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    I say the 1 handed backhand
     
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  30. Leelord337

    Leelord337 Hall of Fame

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    so you're saying its not the racquet, its the grip? i think its a combination of things including the stiffness level of the racquet, the tension of the strings, and the grip size. how come the majority of tennis pros never have elbow problems?
     
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  31. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    get a grip.....

    there may be other reasons, but for the most part:

    you'll get "lateral" tennis elbow (most commonly) from sticking-out-your-elbow when hitting a backhand

    you'll get "medial" tennis elbow--a/k/a golfer's elbow(most commonly) from hitting a forehand with a contact point not far enough out in front


    oh yes, and it's from repetitive gripping...and that's why world-class pros who have hit (i.e. "gripped & ripped") a zillion strokes more strokes than the average hacker on their way to playing tennis for a living are the ones NOT suffering from tennis elbow. :rolleyes:

    If you look like you're "working" or trying too hard, you're doing it wrong.
    If your elbow is hurting, you're doing it wrong. Simple as that.
     
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  32. MegacedU

    MegacedU Professional

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    I'm not contesting that how you grip is important, you just don't get tennis elbow from hitting too many groundstrokes or volleys etc.
     
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  33. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Hall of Fame

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    Meghan, apples and oranges.....when did I say that "too many" groundstrokes/volleys were an indicator? I simply made reference to "doing it incorrectly" that can lead to problems; i.e. tennis is just like life (and for that matter, love): if one is doing it wrong, it's eventually gonna hurt. How's your game going, btw?
     
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