Which US Open tradition is worse, Super Saturday or final set tiebreak?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by JennyS, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

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    Although I strongly prefer seeing a player win by two games, I have to go with Super Saturday. Having the semifinals and finals on back to back days for TV ratings is crap. Although, an alternative would be to have the men's final on Monday Night. Why not? Either way, they're going up against football.


    Plus, when you also factor in some of the men's first round matches being scheduled on WEDNESDAY, it makes it even worse!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
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  2. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    I like Super Saturday, although it has it's faults. Final set tiebreak is kind of cool too. It gives the USO a unique aspect to it. It's kind of like "sudden death".



    If I HAVE to pick, I guess Super Saturday.
     
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  3. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    super saturday is great. its obviously the final set tiebreak.
     
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  4. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    I like Super Saturday, but I abhor the final set tiebreaker.
     
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  5. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    Final set tiebreak is AWESOME -- it makes the US Open unique, along with the night matches. Super Saturday has long been overrated.
     
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  6. jamesblakefan#1

    jamesblakefan#1 G.O.A.T.

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    If they HAVE to have the super Saturday, they should at least make the men's final a night match (an idea which I strongly support in general) to give guys more time to recover.

    Between the two, it's Super Sat for me. It gives an unfair advantage to whoever is scheduled to go on first, as they have more time to recover after their match.

    But yeah, Friday night SF's would be great, and a Sunday night final would be great as well. Too bad USTA allows CBS and the NFL schedule dictate what it does w/ the men's schedule. Women can have a final at night but no men's night final, it should be the other way around.
     
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  7. clayman2000

    clayman2000 Hall of Fame

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    Why does everyone love Super Saturday? All it does is tire each player out for the final. Why else do you think there hasnt been a 5 set final in over 10 years?
     
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  8. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Did you forget Fed vs. Agassi?
     
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  9. JeMar

    JeMar Legend

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    Wasn't their final a four set match?

    They played a five-setter at the U.S. Open, but that was in the quarter-finals (or R16) several years ago.
     
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  10. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    5th set play it out is just too much. I would say a good compromise is to only play it out in the finals, but the other rounds would be to have a tiebreak.
     
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  11. zagor

    zagor Talk Tennis Guru

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    Super Saturday for me by far,5th set tiebreak isn't that bad really.
     
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  12. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    whoops i always thought that was a final haha
     
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  13. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

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    Here's a good argument for the end of Super Saturday: it's hurt Americans in the past: Sampras in 2000 and 2001 for example.

    But how many times has the player with the tougher semi won the final? Roddick did in 2003, but Ferrero had played 4 days in a row so he was even more tired.

    Meanwhile, both Fed and Nadal won a Slam this year after playing a 5 set semifinal. A day off certainly helped!
     
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  14. sanchino

    sanchino Semi-Pro

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    I like the final set tie-break.....if nothing else, it is unique to the US Open, although I wish ALL tournaments used a final set tie-break, especially the slams........so, I'd have to say Super Saturday is worse (although it doesn't matter to me now that the women aren't sandwiched in the middle of the two men's semi's)
     
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  15. sanchino

    sanchino Semi-Pro

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    I wish Arthur Ashe's kids day was Saturday, and start the tournament on Sunday........THEN let the men's final be played in prime time Saturday night instead of the women.......their ratings would kill the women's when they weren't having to go up against NFL football
     
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  16. Oui c'est moi.

    Oui c'est moi. Hall of Fame

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    Out of these 2 evils i think super sat is the lesser evil. Providing men's final is an evening match.
     
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  17. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    It evens out:
    1980 = McEnroe plays 2nd SF -- 5th set tiebreak against Connors -- several hrs after Borgs SF match --- McEnroe won final
    1984 = McEnroe plays 2nd match -- 5 setter against connors -- finished 6+ hrs after Lendl's SF and still thrashed him in the final
    1990 = Sampras plays 2nd SF -- tough 4 setter against McEnroe -- several hrs after Agassi beat Becker -- still thrashed Agassi in final
    1996 -- Sampras had tougher SF but still beat Chang who had smoked Agassi in their SF
    1998 -- Rafter had 2nd SF -- tough 5-setter over Sampras -- several hrs after Philippousis handled Moya -- then Rafter handled Philippousis in the final

    Players hurt by Super Saturday in the final:
    2001 = Sampras (but wasn't in good physical condition anyways -- NO ONE benefitted more from night matches than Sampras; no way he beats Agassi in the heat) -- but he wouldn't have beaten Hewitt anyway -- won just 8 games.
    2002 = Agassi (Sampras was 1st SF against non top-10 player; Agassi was 2nd and had to grind to beat defending champ Hewitt)
    2005 = Federer (Agassi knew this which is why he asked to play Ginepri in the first SF); but he still beat Agassi in 4 sets
    2008 = Murray (delayed second SF)

    Its just another obstacle and its been the same way for decades -- its part of what makes the US Open unique. I do agree that the men's final should be a night match though.

    The players playing the 2nd SF have an extra day rest before the SF compared with the players playing the 1st SF, so its not entirely unfair.
     
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  18. JennyS

    JennyS Hall of Fame

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    Cool stats, thanks!
     
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  19. theroleoftheunderdog

    theroleoftheunderdog Professional

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    its great at least one slam doesnt have a long wait time between the semis and final
     
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  20. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    5th set TB should have no place in a slam. When 2 players are so close that they get to 6 all in the 5th, I want to see them play it out the old fashioned way. Make one of them break the other's serve.
     
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  21. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    That's an unfair advantage to the player serving first. A tiebreaker is much more equitable. Good that not all slams have the same 5th set format.
     
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  22. backhand winner

    backhand winner Banned

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    Super Saturday is unfair to the player with an extended match and having to play the next day. It hurt Agassi against Sampras in 1995. I think a final set tiebreaker is just fine.
     
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  23. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Hmm never thought about that... are there stats to prove that there's an advantage to the player serving first, or are you speculating?
     
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  24. sanchino

    sanchino Semi-Pro

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    I respectfully disagree......after five sets of play, it is time for what is going to happen, HAPPEN!!......There is nothing more thrilling in all of sport than having to perform when it is all on the line.....if there had been a tie-break at the cow pasture (Wimbledon) Roddick would probably have won......that is NOT my reason for liking it.....I almost turned the television off late in the fifth because it was becoming boring!
     
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  25. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Love final set tiebreak. I wouldn't want to see it consistently across all Slams and tournaments, but it is unique and I like that it makes the USO different.

    I also like Super Saturday, but understand that it is tiring for the players and risky for the tournament.
     
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  26. rfprse

    rfprse Professional

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    "Super"(not) Saturday is worse. Even though the final set tiebreak is quite close to it. Both of them should go, imho.
     
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  27. BTURNER

    BTURNER Hall of Fame

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    I like them both.
     
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  28. sanchino

    sanchino Semi-Pro

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    Let the ****s just play 3 tie-breaks, and get their crap over with!
     
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  29. DunlopDood

    DunlopDood Semi-Pro

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    I remember the final set tie break saved pete sampras against Alex Corretja in 1996, but I must say I don't like it. Besides most matches that go the distance in the 5th are usually over at 9-7 or 10-8 so what is the point of a 5th set tie break?
     
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  30. egn

    egn Hall of Fame

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    5 set tiebreak really ruins it =[. Whats the point then? Karlovic could win the damn thing if he got really hot.
     
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  31. Benefactor

    Benefactor Banned

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    How the hell do you figure that? Federer won both of the tie breaks earlier in the match.
     
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  32. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Granted a 5th set tiebreak for all the marbles is thrilling...

    But I think playing it out is even more thrilling. For example the drama of the last two Wimby finals. Two of the most dramatic matches ever. Sorry you found it boring but I think you're in the minority on that one.
     
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  33. obsessedtennisfandisorder

    obsessedtennisfandisorder Professional

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    Super saturday is total crap and i can't
    undertsand people actually like it from a
    tennis perspective.

    Most US open finals are crap because of supersaturday.

    just play both semis on friday...what is the problem with the usta?....are they
    so totally in love with tired players playing finals that leads to low quality.

    too many to mention here:

    2005 final : andre tired
    2003 final: ferrero screwed
    2001 final; all hewitt had to do was turn up.

    In my opinion it's kind of pure luck they havent had too many situations like this years AO..where fed had easy and rafa had a grueller....but it will happen some year soon..then we'll see what poeple say
    bout SuperSaturday
     
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  34. Ratsoup

    Ratsoup New User

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    What's super saturday? :s
     
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  35. Fedfan1234

    Fedfan1234 Rookie

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    Both are bad, but final set tiebreak is the worst. The final set tiebreak is the only reason for me to dislike the US open. Just think that the Wimbledon final this year would have ended in a tiebreak. We would have missed out on about 17 games worth of tennis. Who thinks this was not an incredible display of determination and skill? You don't get this with a tiebreak.
    I think a final set tiebreak is a rather pityfull way to end such a close match. A portion of the win would be because of luck, whereas a difference of 2 games also gives you an element of fatigue as a decisive factor. A player would have to try to conserve energy as much as possible.
     
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  36. dragonfire

    dragonfire Banned

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    what is wrong with the 5th set TB - it shows mental strength and guts
     
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  37. Fedfan1234

    Fedfan1234 Rookie

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    Because fatigue is eliminated as a decisive factor. And you can win a tiebreak with a few lucky points, thus a ball hitting the net and just falling over. With a 2 game difference you would have to break you're opponent and play at least 2 good points on the opponents serve or the opponent would have make the mistakes for you. Both cases you were the best and not the most lucky.
     
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  38. Deuce

    Deuce Banned

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    A not so parallel universe...
    Firstly, there has been only ONE 'Super Saturday' - and that was in 1984.
    That is when the phrase 'Super Saturday' was coined. All other Saturdays at the U.S. Open since then have merely used the name.
    The only true one is the original. And it was a great day of tennis.

    The worst thing about the U.S. Open for me is Arthur Ashe Kids Day.
    What could have been a wonderful idea is in actuality little more than a glorified commercial for various products, masquerading as being "for the kids".
    It is only "for the kids" in that the shameless marketing is aimed directly at the kids.

    An "unfair advantage"?!!? Ridiculous.
    If serving first were really an "unfair advantage", don't you think that players winning the coin toss would choose to serve first 100% of the time?
    Jeez... you can also consider factors like wind and sun - which may very well make it a decided DISadvantage to serve from one side of the court.
    An "unfair advantage"! Funny.

    If anything, the 5th set tiebreak is advantageous to the player who is in the least good physical condition of the two.

    ^ I agree.
     
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  39. dropshot winner

    dropshot winner Hall of Fame

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    The final set tiebreak is just cruel, imagine you fight for 5+ hours and then lose because you make 1 unforced error at the wrong moment.
     
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  40. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    i like the final set tiebreaker, but hate super saturday.

    super saturday cost agassi the 1995 and 2002 us opens against sampras, as he played the later match and had the more grueling match in both years. he admitted after both finals that the semi took a lot out of him and he wasn't feeling great in the final.
     
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  41. CountryHillbilly

    CountryHillbilly Banned

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    Tiebreaker is bad. It's better to just continue until the break of serve.
     
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  42. drwood

    drwood Hall of Fame

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    Karlovic is TERRIBLE in tiebreaks given how big he serves -- if he was great in tiebreaks he would be top-10, maybe even top-5.
     
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  43. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    The one smart thing the USTA did is schedule both mens semis before the women's final, whic is now in prime time.

    This does not, by any means, get rid of all of the problems of having Super Saturday (which I like, but understand why people don't), but, it puts the two winning semifinalists on more equal (not completely equal) footing in regards to their physical condition. Remember, Super Saturday used to be mens semi, women's final, men's semi, so the second men's semi could go really late, while the first semi was always over relatively early.
     
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  44. <3tennis!!!

    <3tennis!!! Semi-Pro

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    FIFTH set tb is horrible, just plain horrible. You've potentially played nearly 5 sets of amazing tennis, and to go down in the tb would just be heartbreaking...
     
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  45. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    One of the few "ideas" proposed by McEnroe regarding the US Open that I wouldn't disagree with would be scheduling the Final on Monday, Labor Day, though internationally I could see harsh resistance to that idea.

    For Americans, and their Championship, it would give the Final its own showcase on an American holiday, take it off the NFL's opening day and afford the finalists a day's rest.

    In that scenario the 2 men's SF would be Saturday, the women's final Sunday, and the men's final Monday. Of course the WTA would most likely be up in arms about the women now being up against the NFL.

    The 5th set t.b. vs. playing it out? I'm used to the 5th set t.b.'s by now and remember the debate when the USO first adopted the format which was originally the 9 point truly "sudden death" version. So for me it's an "either or" situation. The problem I would foresee is are we talking about all tourney long or just the finals?

    Imagine the outcry if the second men's SF goes 22-20 in the 5th? The point is that there is no way to ensure a totally equal situation for the finalists, at least not the US OPEN and those televising it are trying to show each SF live in their respective entirety, to as wide an audience as possible, which by definition means they can't be played simultaneously.

    5
     
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  46. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    if you played the final on labor day then the entire tournament would have to start a week earlier, as labor day weekend is always the middle weekend of the tournament. with the already congested schedule during the summer, this isn't likely to happen.
     
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  47. tennisNoob78

    tennisNoob78 New User

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    Super Saturday without a doubt!

    Unfair scheduling advantage to the first semifinal winner...
     
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  48. effervescence

    effervescence Rookie

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    Not that big a fan of the final-set TB. Imagine having the outcome of the match being determined by a couple of points in the tiebreak- that would be heartbreaking. The TB could go either way, a few points here and there, and of course the person who wins that (and by extension, the match) would've deserved the win, the whole "sudden death" feel to it does ruin it a little. I prefer the protracted old-fashioned way- well, you've played for 5+ hours, let's just grind it out.
     
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  49. woodrow1029

    woodrow1029 Guest

    Have you ever been to the U.S. Open on Arthur Ashe Kids' Day? If not, then pretty much the only part you would see on TV would be what's going on in the stadium.

    What you don't see is all of the stuff going on on the outside courts. They have minicourt games, full court games and a lot of fun activities pretty much exclusively for kids.

    The kids can drill and hit balls with some of the best teaching pros in the country along with a few professional tennis players.

    The kids have a blast during the day, and then they love seeing the teenie bopper's concert that they have scheduled in the stadium.
     
    #49
  50. FiveO

    FiveO Hall of Fame

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    I'm aware of ALL that, including the how unlikely it would be to happen. But I'm in agreement with McEnroe's stance, even moreso now, because of how much playing conditions have been slowed and how much more of a physical grind the American summer h/c swing has become. I think the players could do with a week's less grind, the finalists get the rest, another day for the US Open to put fannies in their seats, a solo showcase, etc. IMO all good from an American audience's perspective.

    5
     
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