Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by dangalak, Oct 8, 2012.
I always wondered.
Per gender Serena. If she were as commited to tennis as Federer she would have 30 slams or more now and been the slam dunk GOAT to a far greater extent than Federer or anyone in any sport outside Michael Phelps in swimming perhaps. At her best she is unbeatable, except maybe by a GOAT clay courter on clay. Federer even at his best can occasionaly lose, and will always lose to Nadal on clay. Meanwhile if Federer tanked about 5 years of his career like Serena did he would probably have only about 3 slams today. Serena might well end up with more slams than Federer and many are now calling her the female GOAT just as many call Federer the male GOAT, despite that she half assed her way though much of her career.
Serena, if we are breaking it down by gender. She had to endure tough personal losses while Federer was getting funds from an illegal pharmaceutical operation.
Serena at her best probably has the strongest serve, return, forehand, backhand, movement, everything except volleys in the womens game today. Federer at his best has the strongest forehand in the mens game on grass and hard courts (obviously Nadal by a landslide has the best forehand on clay), and nothing else the best, although in his prime the best overall game but not the best in nearly every specific category like Serena at hers.
maybe it's because of lack of talent overall in women's tennis?
I mean you also need to keep in mind that Serena is phycially superior to 91% of women's tennis. Federer isn't that physically gifted but he still makes his opponents look terrible.
I disagree that Federer at his best can lose. Most of his losses at the big stage had some inconsistencies I think.
I only agree with serve. Seles and Davy have equal returns. Graf has a better FH. Venus, Seles etc have better BHs. Movement I feel you are really overrating her. Her speed is GOAT worthy, but movement I think Graf, Henin, Venus move better while Clijsters is equal. Federer might be GOAT in movement. BH slice might be only second to Rosewall.
lol, what BS. as djoker would say, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
if she were committed to tennis, then it's quite likely that she gets burned out before the end of the year or loses motivation or picks up an injury, with less chances to show her "talent".
And no, it's no contest. Federer by a country mile. Serena's domination is not even top 10 in the women's game. Federer's is unprecedented. Federer beats her in peak level, consistency, domination, longevity, results.. you name it.
the only area where serena beats Federer is in bad hair-styles.
Roger for sure.
Serena can take advantage of the fact that half the WTA is out of shape and/or mentally weak. She only really needs to show up and use her skills once or twice in a tournament MAYBE three good matches in a slam. Roger has risen head and shoulders above a much more consistently strong field of players.
Serena at her best was pretty dang tough to beat. (I'm not sure there are too many in WTA history that could beat Serena peak for peak).
You can't say the same for Federer. Nadal as a young buck (not even in his prime) was beating a peak Federer. Sampras could take Fed peak for peak on fast surfaces. I think Andre could take Fed out peak for peak (since he was taking close to peak Fed to 4 and 5 sets at an OLD age).
Yes you can bro.
Nadal could beat him on clay even at his peak (Rome 2006) but Henin could beat Serena on her peak as well.
serena is pretty talented to at times play incredibly well even when she's out of shape and lacks match practice.
if federer showed that much lack of drive and disinterest in the game, he would have been done a long time ago.
I think people give too much attention to the final of 07 AO. Yeah she crushed Sharpie but she is her b*tch anyway. On the way to the final, she struggled hard.
I don't know if this logic counts, but I think that women's tennis is less tough than mens tennis. A guy like Nadal was embarrassed in the WTF just because he missed a couple of months. I can't imagine the same in the women's tour.
Nadal beat Federer at his peak on hard courts too. Won 2 of their first 3 matches aged 17-19, and choked a huge lead which would have been a 3 straight sets win otherwise. Henin was only a threat to peak Serena on clay.
This. The WTA is a joke, fact. I can't believe this is even a question. Serena plays a talentless power game that she happens to excel at because she is huge compared to all other girls in the talentless field of fatties (too many to list).
Fed by a zillion miles. Fed can't even see Serena from the talent level he is on.
you have a point. physicality and conditioning is a bigger part of the men's tour than the women's.
Federer would've never lost to Nadal on HC in slams. Who cares about a loss in Miami, where Federer was never that good in the first place and where he was sick.
Dubai, I'll give you, but that was almost a choke of Miami F 2005 proportions. Federer was controlling everyting, just like Nadal was controlling everything in Miami.
LOL at the bolded
Pathetic post. Just man up and realize that your idol Petros will never be in the running for GOAT again now that Federer has surpassed all of his achievements.
Federer did play his best at the 2005 Australian Open and still lost to Safin. Federer could have played the clay court match of his life vs Nadal at the 2008 French and he still would have gotten 10 games at absolute most. Federer at his best can definitely lose.
Serena at his best probably could not lose. Even to Henin on clay she would for sure win if she were playing her very best, although only rarely could she produce that.
Good points.. Fed fans looking back with those rosey tinted "RF shades" on again. Fed at his best DID lose on the big stage on a few different surfaces and also lost quite a bit to Nadal in general when he playing near his peak level. So I don't know what the issue is here
Not sure how the Nadal H2H makes the case against Fed. In fact it does the opposite because we it only highlights the depth of talent present in the men's tour while the women's tour is mostly a joke. Federer being able to win as many majors and being such a consistent winner despite all the ridiculously talented competition he has to face only serve to highlight his own amazing talent.
if one was to consider both tours as equals, disregarding the physicality gap between the atp and wta, who would be more talented among his or her respective peers?
Apples and oranges I think.
Didn't Serena play her best against Clijsters and still lost? In the YEC I mean. Didn't watch the match, just asking.
It's true that she lost a tight match against Henin on clay in FO 2003. But Henin wasn't at her peak yet. I doubt that she would beat Henin in 2007 at her own best.
Fed is the most talented player, end of story. Serena is the strongest physical specimen in the women's game, but she's no Federer.
Yet we don't see Serena waltzing around center courts in Madrid whiffing groundstrokes in finals on TV...:lol:
Clay is slippery sometimes - great tennis players can lose balance in executing a stroke. News to you, huh?
Really, great players can make mistakes? Who would have thought.
Yes, unlike mediocre nonplayers who whiff, wear pink purses and toss plastic at ballboys everywhere....:lol:
Yep, much better than amateurs who choke on bananas, pick at their underwear, and slip on nearly every surface imaginable. :lol:
Here we go again - Nadal's Armani underwear.
Roger is more talented.
The numbers speak for themselves. Men tennis is way more competitive than women tennis, and it required more talent to win a slam.
They are both supremely talented, let's not get crazy on here.
That is false. Women's tennis and men's tennis is different but you can't say that a woman who has won 15 slams is not talented, that is just a stupid statement.
They are both very talented just different that is all.
Never said Serena doesn't have any talent.
The OP asked who's more talented.
I know and I think it is very hard to say who is more talented. It is pretty even given their respective results and careers.
Results wise, no it's not!
Slam-wise? Sure it is.
You have this thing about Serena Williams, you don't like her and that is fine, I am not a big fan myself, but her talent and what she has achieved can't be denied. I would say she is as talented as Federer but in different ways. It is hard to compare anything when you are comparing two different things, but, I would say it is pretty equal in terms of talent.
whoa, easy there tiger. you obfuscate a lot of issues. i don't think anyone here would deny that Serena was talented, supremely at that. But she ain't no Federer. Please...
Federer is the most accomplished male tennis player of all time. Serena barely makes the top 5. She has a 7-slam gulf (9 if you want to compare her to Court) with the all-time leader... that's Henin's career so to speak. Federer IS the all-time leader. I don't understand how anyone with a straight face can claim that Serena is anywhere near Federer in terms of talent.
I can't look at SW and say she's as talented as Federer when she has some of the most sloppy footwork I've ever seen. Federer couldn't get that sloppy even if he tried.
I guess you could consider physical superiority a talent, but Federer's brand of talent impresses me more.
The question I think was who is more talented??? Federer's natural talent is just mind blowing!! No one can even compare in all honesty
Serena. Simply because she completed a Serena slam, while Roger couldn't.
Serena is disrespected on this forum for 2 main reasons:
1. She is a women. This forum is extremely ATP heavy and anti WTA.
2. She is black. Sorry but it has to be said. Just look at the extreme hatred Donald Young gets on this forum as well. Yeah he isnt that good, but normally a player outside the top 100 would have nobody giving a damn about them, not creating numerous threads to bash upon them.
Obviously Federer is more talented. If he played the WTA, he would be #1. Serena would never even break top 500 in ATP. No contest on who's more talented...
Oh, the race card. Why is Monfils rather well-liked, then? And why is never anything said against Venus? Why just Serena?
Monfils well liked, LOL! That is a laugh. Both Williams sisters are heavily disliked on this forum. Venus not so much anymore since she is irrelevant these days so nobody cares much anymore (well Young is too but he plays on the ATP and the forum can be bothered to either praise or diss even irrelevant ATP players).
I see more hate stemming from a player's personality, attitude, gamesmanship, playstyle, etc. than from a player's skin color...
Serena is heavily disliked because of her attitude just as Sharapova and Azarenka are just as "hated" because of their screams.
And no one hates Donald Young here. They just mock him because of loss streak, USTA affiliation, sticking with parents as coaches.
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